They ruined DL's Small World how much longer before they ruin ours?

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Or it may not have been their decision at all. I still don't think they look all that bad.

When I said WDI, I meant the entire division of the company as a whole. The Imagineers themselves may have had nothing to do with the concept or choosing to do it (like SGE). No they do no all look bad, I agree with you and have already stated whihc ones I did like and others I don't. The conept itself is something that I take more offesne to.

To jake:

Of course there is no evidence of the decison because Disney will and always would keep it wrapped up in glossy PR statements and general company secrecy so it's harmless to sepculate a decsion based on evidence of previous recent decisions ivolving additions, modifications to the parks and individuals who even here have posted info on how things basically work and get done.

If someone came up to me on the street and said I didn't deserve my job I'd ask why to know who I can do better. It might not be someon elses job to think up ways for me or the place I work to be imporved but it does allow for me as an emplyee to rethink how I might change my job outlook. BTW you also fail to notice how I put "WDI" not "The Imagineers" or "Bob the illustartor" in my criticism, as I blame the corporate mess of that company divison as a whole which is obviously flawed based on some of thier output, decisions and the coments that this sites insiders have brought up.

The "insult" you took offense to was so obviously over the top it should have been obvious to you that the sarcasm used was not meant to hurt anybody. Had you paid attention to my other posts instead of lumping me with the other "complainers" you would have noticed how I said the Imagineers (the REAL creative people) have done a respectable job on the redo and The White Rabbit is my favortie additton. It's obvious that some folk do in fact deserve their paycheques and the additions are liked.

BTW I am an emplyee for WDC and I don't like how things are run. Does that make you feel beter knowing I'm not totally of no conern to the company, however small my current position is, and yet I still feel poorly about how decsions are made?

I've talked at length about the merit of the addions and how improvemnts could have been done but if that makes me a "meanie" than that's your poblem not mine and I will continue to be a "meanie" on whatever issue as long as I feel like it. Getting upset about me thorwing insults (while ironicially pitching your own) doesn't make you look any more special in my mind.















Now tha's said, I think we caould use use a nice good, cool pitcher of Kool-Aid! What flavour does everyone want?
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
You don't understand the difference between "you don't like change" and "you don't like a change?"

I wasn't exactly just referring to jakeman's statement, a lot of people have been having the "you complainers don't like change!" attitude and quite frankly, I'm sick of it.
 

SirGoofy

Member
I love how some of the biggest critics of recent Disney moves are actually praising this(myself included), and yet someone brings up "Kool-aid" and "Defenders of Mediocrity.":rolleyes:
 

Lee

Adventurer
Bottom line: It's all about opinion. You either like it, or you don't.
It's totally subjective, neither inherently good or bad.
Really, no point in arguing. :shrug:
 

Dragonrider1227

Well-Known Member
Yeah, how dare they add Disney characters to a Disney ride? :lol:
I've yet to ride this but from what I've seen, I like it. It's not blatant or in your face about it, it's suddle, (sp?) and has every character in their respective countries, thus giving a sense of connection to the countries and I'm sorry to say but when I was a child in Disney World, rides that didn't have recognizable chracters used to either bore or scare me. The only exceptions to this were Jungle Cruise, Small World, and Journey into Imagination. (It doesm have characters, but not characters I already knew beforehand) So if kids today are anything like I was, then I thinking it was kinda needed.
PS. I'd like tropical Punch Kool-Aid, please :D
 

Dragonrider1227

Well-Known Member
All I could find from Darkbeer's column was this brief mention;

"A few well known ones are the geese, which used to have 6 in the attraction (2 sets of 3) and now 2 sets of 2 to the Belly Dancers, which used to be on both sides of the Taj Mahal." -Darkbeer

See my comments above about the geese.

As for the belly dancers, I'm afraid Darkbeer's mind is playing tricks on him. There has never been more than one set of belly dancers at the Taj Mahal, found on the right side of the reflecting pond. The snake charmer boy has always been on the left side of the reflecting pond. Refer to this YouTube video (it is good for something!) from the 1964 World's Fair to see the single set of belly dancers at the 3:00 minute mark. This same 1964/Disneyland setup at the Taj Mahal is found on the WDW version too, except the WDW version does not include the snake charmer boy on the right side of the pond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKt_o6AflbI&feature=related

But be careful! Mr. Disney had Goofy and the Mad Hatter and the Seven Dwarves appear on national television at his new Small World ride. They can be seen at the beginning of the video helping people get into their boats to begin their trip around the world.

What was Walt thinking! This ride is supposed to be entirely free of his Character based marketing! This is supposed to be a prayer for world peace, not a character ride! :ROFLOL:
LOL Nice one
You can compare the 1964 World's Fair staging and the 1966 Disneyland staging to the 2009 reopening of the ride at this next video. Find the exact same Arabia scene, with all the exact same AA dolls from the 1960's in the 2009 version. Except now there is an additional flying carpet with two new dolls overhead that look like Alladin and Jasmine. The Arabia scene appears at the 3:35 minute mark in this 2009 video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhPRxf1sp2Q

All the original World's Fair dolls are still there, with new Character additions next to the originals. The Doll Crisis of '09 has been averted, thanks to YouTube! :)
After viewing this video, not only can I honestly ask If this is their idea of "ruining" It's a Small World, then I personally cannot wait until they "ruin" Disney World's as well ;) but if I wasn't told ahead of time that they added these characters, I don't think I would've noticed them right away
If they had replaced the song with a Hanna Montana remix, they I could call this being "ruined" XD
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Really, thinking on it more now, my only beefs are how flat the America sets look and how Ariel really distracts from the other two mermaids in the scene because of the blindingly bright spotlight on her that shifts just about all emphasis to her. Pretty much all the other characters were put in a way that wasn't too distracting from everyone else...
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Really, thinking on it more now, my only beefs are how flat the America sets look and how Ariel really distracts from the other two mermaids in the scene because of the blindingly bright spotlight on her that shifts just about all emphasis to her. Pretty much all the other characters were put in a way that wasn't too distracting from everyone else...

In its defense, the new Spirit of America room is very hard to film. It's the smallest of all the rooms by far, and the flume trough takes a quick S-curve as it travels through. The staging is such that you sort of take in the Farm scene on your left first, but then your eye is quickly drawn to the Southwest scene straight ahead as your boat turns to the left to head towards the Finale'. The Farm scene actually has a lot of depth that is hard to capture in 2-D video, with three new AA farmboy/girl dolls sitting on little hills that really haven't been caught in any of the videos I've seen on YouTube.

The Spirit of America setup is not at all easy to catch via a non-profesional handheld video camera, and it really doesn't photograph well. For those who haven't been on the ride yet, you'll just have to trust me that it plays out much better in person. But it is over rather quickly, again because it's not a very big room.

As for Ariel, I agree that she seems to be brightly spotlit. In person what you really notice is just how bright red-orange her little wig is. I consider that newly remade Mermaid scene to be the least succesful of all the new Character placements in the ride.

Luckily, the Disneyland version of it's a small world goes down for rehab in just seven months for the Small World Holiday version. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Imagineers go in and tinker a bit with the new additions once it's had a spring/summer season to gel a bit. Small World and Haunted Mansion always seem to get little touches added during the Holiday install/removal rehabs, and now there's new stuff to tinker with this Fall.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I love how some of the biggest critics of recent Disney moves are actually praising this(myself included), and yet someone brings up "Kool-aid" and "Defenders of Mediocrity.":rolleyes:

I noticed that too. And it has made me chuckle.

For what it's worth, I can heap criticism on Disney in large amounts when they don't live up to standards or get a bit too much "synergy" going and not enough creativity. See all my posts on other boards circa 2001-05 about DCA. :eek:

But I can also recognize good evolutionary change that keeps things fresh. If this was a bad change, I'd be right there ringing the alarm bell. But as someone who has ridden the new Disneyland version of Small World five separate times in the last few days, I can confidently state that these changes turned out great. The spirit of the ride is still there, the additions blend seamlessly for the most part (many take a couple of ride-throughs to actually notice), and the ride has never looked better.

In addition to the new Character dolls, the audio and lighting inside the ride is now 21st century fabulous instead of 20th century average. The exterior of the attraction also now has an amazing new LED lighting package that does all sorts of tricks whenever the Disneyland Railroad passes in front of the attraction, or when the clock goes off every 15 minutes. FUN!

If you are looking for proof that corporate Disney has lost it's heart and soul, this latest Small World refurbishment isn't it.

Walt Disney World would be wise to consider moving it's 1971/2007 version of Small World (a cloned attraction, by the way) in the direction of the 1966/2009 Disneyland version. The more casual Orlando visitor would probably really enjoy the freshening and subtle changes.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
If you are looking for proof that corporate Disney has lost it's heart and soul, this latest Small World refurbishment isn't it.

No, but for many people this is the straw that broke the horses back after more than a decade of character prominent additions, revisions, and replacements to Disney's theme parks (world wide minus TDR). You can bring up Everest and Soarin' all you want but the ratio between total originallity and charcter based attractions has certainly leaned to the later. I personally have enjoyed, Finding Nemo: the Musical, The Seas With Nemo and Friends, and others but I do undertand where poeple come from with thier dislike for this latest redesign. It's the firs ttime one of these character additions/rivisons has been done to a ride without a)eniterly replacing it, b) building something from scratch or c) basing something off a movie based off the pre-existing ride (like Pirates). It's ceratinly surprising to see Disney do this to something that was thought to be free of such things and has badly caught some off by guard. I'm sure in time people will get sued to it or it wil be modified (good point about IASWH), but I do feel concerned about what next will Dinsey do? Add Disney chactres to Jungle Crusie, Haunted Mansion (if they id the ENTIRE fan community woud be up in arms I'm sure), Space Mounatin? Maybe not since those rides are not outright hated by alot of people like Small World. Yes the more recent character attarctions have been more tasteful than before (MILF aside) but they are plenty of us who would like to see something, completely 100% new be built more than once every 5 years.
 

ttalovebug

Active Member
Just a thought:

Isn't it kind of funny that in DL, people get upset because they do too much in a refurb? That's a problem we'll never have here. :lookaroun :lol:
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
BTW I am an emplyee for WDC and I don't like how things are run. Does that make you feel beter knowing I'm not totally of no conern to the company, however small my current position is, and yet I still feel poorly about how decsions are made?
Not really. If I got caught posting negatively about my company on the internet I would be fired.

The rest of your post is just semantics to justify your position. Which is fine, but not worth debating.

With regards to the attraction itself, I don't really have an opinion as I have not seen it in person.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Isn't it kind of funny that in DL, people get upset because they do too much in a refurb? That's a problem we'll never have here. :lookaroun :lol:

That's what is so odd about this one. Small World just got a great rehab. Everything from '64 and '66 was repainted and refurbished. Every toy and spinning prop has been resurfaced and reglittered. Every animal has been given new feathers, new fur, new hair. Every dolls eyes blink. All new LED lighting was installed inside the ride and outside on the giant facade. New speakers boom with perfectly balanced digital recordings of the cleaned up analog originals. An all new Spirit of America room was added, without losing any of the Rainforest or New Guinea dolls and elements that used to be in that room (moved to the big South Pacific room).

And yet everyone on both coasts is talking about the Characters. :lol:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
People are talking about the characters with good reason.

Disney parks are being tooned over ... and that's a major dumbing down of the product.

It also plays into a lot of criticism you'll hear by people who won't visit Disney parks because 'they're only for children.'

Disney is so much more than a stable of cartoon characters that can be leveraged across numerous platforms.

The MK is the absolute worst example because its lands really do not have much meaning anymore. Characters and character experiences and merchandise is ALL over. And, no, it wasn't this was in 1979 or 1989, but sure had started by 1999 and now ... well, someone will have to explain to me what Stitch, Buzz Lightyear and the Monsters crew have to do with the concept of Tomorrowland.

I love Disney characters, but they have their place. Or had.

Now, that place is anywhere and everywhere ... of course doing so also allows you to simply drop a BAH into the middle of the Studios and toss out the design principles that guided its creation.

What's worse is a whole generation has grown up believing that Disney parks are all about the characters.

I can't possibly tell them how wonderful EPCOT Center was its first few years when there were NO characters except for Figment and Dreamfinder in the park. And even later when Mickey and the gang appeared, it was in moderation and where it made sense.

Now ... they just dumb the parks down ...

~Pass the Pixie Dust~
 

SilentWindODoom

Well-Known Member
I came back to the Disney fandom to find the latest on the change of Pleasure Island into its new form. What I found was this. I must not have been paying attention because this was all news to me. I've just now gotten through all these pages.

I haven't seen it, or Disneyland (or anything West of Jacksonville, FL), live, but from what I've seen so far, the attraction seems far from ruined. Let's take a look at each individual instance.

Peter Pan and Tinkerbell: If I didn't have them pointed out, I never would have noticed them. Of course, I've never payed much attention up there anyway. They do seem non-intrusive, and are based on a classic British story. Their design is in keeping with the rest of the ride, for sure. I think they did well with this. My only complaint would be that it is too far from the limelight, although many would think the more removed, the better. 8/10

Alice and the White Rabbit: They are the cuuuuuuuuuuuuutest thing I've ever seen (Yes, I am a guy), and I enjoy their inclusion just for that. They are representative of England, as they are too from a classic British tale. My only complaint is that they are really close to the boat and really brightly lit. I'd rather they dim the light a bit. 9/10

Cinderella, Gus, and Jaques: Here's where I start to have an issue. I did not know this story took place in France. I always thought it was in England. Of course, that matters little. While most of the other inclusions are mixed into their country, Cinderella is an exception. In her rags with her mice, and with that bright spotlight on them, they are a show scene unto theirselves. This doesn't blend at all. As mentioned before it would have been better if she were in her gown with her prince.

To be honest, if I were to choose one Disney movie for France, I would have picked Beauty and the Beast, which is very highly tied into France. I would have even taken some Hunchback of Notre Dame. Both are French classics. 6/10

Pinocchio and Jiminy Cricket: Many have complained that Pinocchio is pudgy, but I think that is just because of the transition to the more abstract style. I think that his switch to this style is good and helps him fit more with the attraction. The lighting also seems more in character with the rest of the ride, as well as the situation (a character on a stage), rather than the bright spotlight that Cinderella gets. I cannot say much about Jiminy Cricket because I haven't been able to get a really good look at him. Nevertheless, the inclusion of this classic Italian tale does not seem to be too intrusive, and blends well with the Italian section. 8/10

Aladdin, Jasmine, Apu, and the Magic Carpet: This definitely blends well with the Arabian section. I think the inclusion of Apu may be overkill a bit, but Aladdin and Jasmine fit like they were always there up among the flying carpets.

Just one little fun fact about Aladdin. While his story may be a classic Arabian one, the characters in the story weren't Arabian. The story took place in the Orient, and they were all of Asian decent. This sort of puts an odd spin on the whole thing. Nevertheless, they are a welcome addition to the area. 9/10

Mulan and Mushu: Mulan is set back, but she is one of those spotlighters. This creates a major issue, as she can be seen from a mile away, and may distract someone away from most of the Chinese and Japanese areas. At least the other are seen, and then you move on. This light needs to be cut some, or at least she needs to be moved to a spot that is more hidden until you get up to it. Heck, even then the light needs to be toned down some. Mulan is, in fact, an ancient Chinese legend. Her inclusion in China is fitting. 7/10

Simba, Pumbaa, and Timon: This trio is beautifully done. They are exactly in the style of the other animals, and fit in great. My only gripe is the way Timon is presented. I'd rather he just be out with everyone else. Why is there a tiny tower just sitting in the middle of the Jungle? It just seems a bit discordant. No gripes besides that, though. 9.5/10

The Three Caballeros: I really wish that they were portrayed more in he style of the ride. Perhaps theydon't lend themselves well enough to it. I would have preferred a flat version such as Pinocchio, or maybe as pinatas. Still, they're not too bad. Perhaps a less conspicuous spot would better make things gel. Their musical change to the soundtrack, however, is very well done. 6.5/10

Ariel and Flounder: From here in is when things start to take a sharp drop. Ariel is very problematic. While the others at least celebrated stories and/or cultures of their nations, this has little to do with anything. This entire scene is all about Ariel, and the story of the Little Mermaid, which is a Danish tale! This was, of course, put in because of the equally non-connected mermaid scene was already there. Before anyone complains about not having to do with children of all nations living in harmony, the mermaid scene could be described as being the first divergance from this theme, and it was in the original ride. The second such theme, of course, is the Antarctic, where there are no indiginous (probably not spelling that right) peoples. This is something that the Antarctic shares with the ocean, which brings us back the the point at hand.

The biggest problem here is the placement of Ariel. The inclusion of Ariel in this scene may be a nice little Hidden Mickey-type-deal, but the way it's presented makes it all about her. I'll admit it, I didn't know much about the ride until these last few days, and didn't know its scenes nearly as good as the Mansion, or even Pirates or the Jungle Cruise. I only knew my version, and didn't know the mermaid scene existed. I thought it was rediculous that they build a whole scene around Ariel. Of course, now I know better, but I know that many without knowledge of the old ride can and likely will have this misconception. The biggest mistake was using her to replace the centerpiece mermaid. It would have been better if she'd been one of the other mermaids, the lower ones in the dim lighting. That way, you could include her without her being the center of attention. Oh, and Flounder definitely has to go. I don't care if the other undersea creatures are in the same style. Flounder is waaay too obvious. 0.5/10

Nemo (Marlin?) and Dory: These glitter fish don't seem to fit in that well. Yes, the movie takes place in Australia, and I wouldn't mind seeing them in Australia, but not this way. Put flat versions among the other flat fish a little later on, but don't just make them look exactly like their movie version. As one mentioned earlier, just make them look like the real fish, and people will get the idea. Maybe a flat Regal Tang, a flat daddy and kiddie Clownfish, and a flat sea turtle among the fish of the South Seas. It could fit, but the current version is like Flounder, too much like the regular figure just dropped in. It's like they stole these from the display outside the Seas. At least they're not as conspicuous as Ariel and Flounder 2/10

Lilo and Stitch: I actually see Lilo and Stitch fitting the theme of children celebrating unity. That beng said, you still can't put Stitch in this attraction, especially not in such a conspicuous place. I think the aforementioned idea of leaving Lilo and include Stitch as a necklace works well. Perhaps there is another sly nod to Stitch that can be made in thise scene, but we can't just include him. Perhaps this would seem less offensive if it hadn't been right after two horrible examples. What I notice is that there seems to be some stacking of characters. While there are long distances with no characters, we get Pan, Alice, and Cinderella in rather quick procession. This also happens with Ariel, Nemo, and Stitch. 5/10

Woody, Jessie, and Bullseye: Ariel was definitely the worst offender. This isn't too far behind. The animatronics aren't too bad, but given how the rest look, they're not fitting at all, and their much too large scale. The worst offense about this, however, is that this is supposed to represent America. These characters have little to do with traditional American stories or culture. I can understand why they were chosen. The concept art for the American section included a barn and desert, and this was the only character they could think of to fit in either. It still doesn't make it right. I know the intentions were good, but it didn't work out.

What should have been there instead? Why not include a colonial America part to the scene. There you could include the Disney character that does exemplify American culture and legend: Ichabod Crane. He's the perfect choice for the job, although, alas, he's not going to get the name recognition these two are. 2/10

By the way, am I the only one that thought, until seeing that narrated version of the ride, that the toy soldiers were representing England? I was shocked to find out they were Danish, representing the Tovali Boys Guard.
 

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