They ruined DL's Small World how much longer before they ruin ours?

[TP2000]

TP2000, what's the situation with the soundtrack? How exactly do the movie themes come into play?

For the life of me, I haven't been able to notice or hear most of the alleged soundtrack changes. They appear to be so subtle, or perhaps so washed out by the overall audio inside the ride, that you really don't pick up on them.

There are two exceptions to that rule however; Ariel's scene and Woody and Jesse. With the previous version of the mermaid scene you heard a version of the Small World song in an underwater bubble melody style. Now, you still get that bubble version, but the high pitched voice of Ariel is heard more than the other two mermaids that are still there. Flounder bobs in the water near Ariel with the other fish, but I never picked up an "Under The Sea" melody. It was just a higher pitched Ariel-style voice singing the Small World song.

In the new America room as you pass by the Woody and Jesse "toys" that sit near the new cowboy and Indian dolls, the instruments change from the lush orchestral sound to a twangy cowboy guitar sound. I didn't hear the "You've Got A Friend In Me" melody or anything, but the instruments used for about ten feet of flume change to a typical country-western guitar sound.

Other than those two examples, I CAN'T HEAR A SINGLE CHANGE TO THE SOUNDTRACK.

Passing Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland in England? Can't hear a thing. Passing Cinderalla in France and the Pinnochio marionette in Italy? Didn't pick out a single different note for either. Aladdin and Jasmine, Mulan and Mushu, Pumbaa and Timon, The Three Caballeros, Lilo and Stich.... Didn't hear a single different note.

Not that I don't believe Disney when they say in their press releases that those Character theme songs were "woven" into the broader and over-riding Small World theme song. But either the new melodies are turned down so low, or woven so subtly into the overall song, that it's nearly impossible for the average visitor to hear.

Perhaps you could listen to the YouTube videos that are out there of the new ride and try to catch a few bars of the new music if you concentrate very hard while listening? But I certainly wasn't able to hear much of anything new on the five recent rides I took on the revamped ride. But with YouTube you could replay a 10 second clip of small sections of the ride over and over while you try and pick out a few new bars of background melody.

You certainly can't do that YouTube trick on the ride though, as your boat just keeps floating along towards new stuff and new sounds.

I will say that I did notice that the audio appears to have been cleaned up and beefed up even further from the last time they redid the audio in that aging ride just before the 50th Anniversary. The audio really surrounds you in every room, and it's now more about being perfectly balanced and crystal clear than just about being loud.

The new Disney Tunes Invade Small World thing appears to be much ado about nothing. Mainly because it's so hard (or in my case, impossible) to notice.

 

[TP2000]

First, thanks to TP2000 for bringing a little sanity to the hysterical masses.

Second, I'm wondering what exactly makes one park "ours" and another "theirs?"

First, you're welcome. :wave:

Second, I think the "ours" versus "theirs" thing stems from a sense of ownership that can help fuel the hysterical masses. Plus there's the natural California vs. Florida thing, and that ramps up more when a particular property sees more new investment and attention than the other.

In reality, none of the Disney theme parks belong to anyone but Disney.

Disneyland management could have shut the 1966 version of it's a small world down and tured the building into a Tony Roma's rib joint and a Vans Skateboard Park if they wanted to. And us fans would have no legal recourse to prevent them from doing that. It's their facility on their property and they can do whatever they want with it.

I love Disney parks just as much as the next guy. But really, I caution all my fellow fans from taking the pride thing far enough to where a theme park becomes "ours" when all we do is buy an entry ticket for the day and purchase some souvenirs.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

No offense, but marketing/merchandising agenda? I think Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Nemo, Little Mermaid, etc. are advertised EVERYWHERE in the parks. Putting them in this ride isn't going to get people to say, WOW, Stich was in It's A Small World, I MUST go buy Lilo and Stich and buy every plush doll that there is.

Every little bit helps. Especially if you design merch based off the character designs featured in the ride, something you could never do before.

There's also a difference in advertising in stores and pedestrian pathways and advertising or creating merchandising opportunities IN the rides themselves.

 

[marsrunner]

Visited Disneyland (just the Disneyland Park) on Saturday for my first ever visit. Man, what a day! It rained about half the time so it was pretty empty. Never waited more than 20 minutes for anything and never used a FastPass. Plus the park was open from 7am (was staying at the Disneyland Hotel so got an extra hour) to midnight. The only things closed that I saw were Haunted Mansion and Tarzan's Treehouse.
The "new" version of Small World is just as wonderful as always. The little additions were not necessary in the strictest sense of the word, but they don't devalue or detract from the attraction. Its the same ride, just with a couple of very minor additions.
As a side note, the California version of Small World blows the Florida one out of the water, additions or now. It's longer and the outside is just beautiful.
I could say a bunch of things about the Disneyland park (I was at WDW less than two weeks ago, so I can compare!) that I may post later, though I haven't posted my thoughts about WDW yet. Let's just say that Saturday was the best day I have ever spent in any theme park.
P.S. and O.T.: Space Mountain in California is INCREDIBLE! Favorite ride anywhere! I laughed through the whole thing!

 

[Wilt Dasney]

There's also a difference in advertising in stores and pedestrian pathways and advertising or creating merchandising opportunities IN the rides themselves.

Are they really the same though, advertising vs. creating merchandising opportunities?

It seems to me that every ride imaginable creates merchandising opportunities to some degree, opportunities which some of them exploit more aggressively than others.

But saying that a ride element is automatically an ad for some product, simply because a product based on it is available, comes off a tad disingenuous to me...even if the element was imposed with the intent of basing merchandise on it.

I think of when I used to rabidly watch Ninja Turtle cartoons as a kid. There were plenty of toys based on the show, and I knew about them and ended up with quite a nice collection...but to call the cartoons advertisements for the toys just wouldn't have been accurate. The cartoons could still be enjoyed in their own right without going out and buying anything. They were creative productions with a marketing tie-in, which was undeniably a little crass, but to label them as half-hour ads would have been overstating the case and a bit insulting to the legitimate creative work there.

(Heck, I even remember an Animaniacs Happy Meal at one point.)

 

[HMF]

You don't know how the people who made these additions feel.

The company has deluded them into thinking they are doing the right thing.

 

[SirGoofy]

The company has deluded them into thinking they are doing the right thing.

:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

No seriously. I needed that. You need a reality check, friend.

 

[Disneyson 1]

For the life of me, I haven't been able to notice or hear most of the alleged soundtrack changes...

Did you see the video that I posted earlier (I think a page back)? It points out the new counterpoints VERY well, except for the Whole New World one.

If you don't hear it there, go to Mouse Info and turn the music up LOUD. Make sure to listen to the parts near Alice, Pinocchio, Cinderella, Aladdin, 3 Cabs, Ariel, & Jessie.

Near Alice, you can hear this part from "Golden Afternoon" playing:

"You can learn a lot of things from the flowers,
for especially in the month of June,
there's a wealth of happiness and romance, oh!
All in the golden afternoon!"

... playing on bells (no words) on a loop in the background while Alice sings "it's a small world". You can hear it quite clearly if you don't focus on Alice singing.

Next to Cindy, Gus, and Jaq, you can clearly hear:

"Salagadoola, mechickaboola, bibbidi-bobbidi-boo!
Put 'em together and what have you got?
Bibbidi-bobbidy-boo!"

... on flute.

Next, listen for "when you wish upon a star near Pinocchio and Jiminy Cricket. I, for the life of me, can't hear it, but several people have pointed it out.

Next is Aladdin, Jasmine, and Abu. Here, you can hear just:

"A whole new world..."

...playing on the loop with the rest of the music. It's a lot more subtle than the rest, but you will hear it if you look out for it.

Next, if you count the 3 Cabs playing the guitar a new overlay, there it is.

You can clearly hear Ariel singing in her voice the small world theme when you pass her.

Finally, you can hear Jessie playing her guitar in the America scene.

Hope this helped!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

(Heck, I even remember an Animaniacs Happy Meal at one point.)

Happy meals, trailers, posters, banners, I'm fine with that and we live in a culture that has come to expect barrages of advertising images in almost all aspects of our lives. That's why I'd like the attractions themselves to be free of them as that ads to the escapism. Especially in a ride that never intended them in the first place.

 

[HMF]

quote-2. While I'm not sold on the neccesity of the new America room either, it's not that bad. And I would really caution anyone from judging what the staging, set design and scale of all of these figures are from viewing a three inch screen on YouTube shot by amateur photographers. The Woody and Jesse figures are actually the least noticeable in that scene when viewed in real life. The Indians up on the buttes are what catches your eye as you float towards them, and Woody and Jesse are scaled a bit smaller than the dolls and are easily overlooked. Life is not meant to be judged via YouTube._quote

Well the America scene was (mostly) designed by Mary Blair so I can accept that and they did move the Rainforest.

quote-3. No AA dolls have gone missing. None.-quote

The boy on the surfboard was REPLACED by Lilo & Stitch. (who is not even from Earth.)
BTW the corn cob Marioneetes are still there they are falnking th 3 Cabs on either side. Another interesting note Alladin is supposed to take place in the Middle East. They have him IN INDIA?

 

[SirGoofy]

The boy on the surfboard was REPLACED by Lilo & Stitch. (who is not even from Earth.)

But wasn't the message of Stitch's ride that everyone should be treated the same, no matter where they are from, and that family doesn't have to look the same. So from a message standpoint, which everyone is so upset about, he fits perfectly.

The scene that Aladdin is in is supposed to represent all of Arabia, which includes the Middle East and India.

 

[epcotWSC]

Every little bit helps. Especially if you design merch based off the character designs featured in the ride, something you could never do before.

There's also a difference in advertising in stores and pedestrian pathways and advertising or creating merchandising opportunities IN the rides themselves.

Pretty much every ride is a merchandising advertisement. That's why there are gift shops outside of almost every ride. You're in a Disney park and if Disney is not allowed to advertise their products wherever they want, then IDK where they can.

IMO, they didn't change the ride that much and they didn't "ruin" the ride, so I see no issue. It's not like they took the attraction and got rid of all that was there before and put only Disney characters. Stich is out of place, but he goes with Lilo so that's why he's there. I mean they didn't even put Goofy, Mickey, Mini or Pluto. So it's not like they made it so blatant to just throw characters anywhere.

 

[HMF]

All I could find from Darkbeer's column was this brief mention;

"A few well known ones are the geese, which used to have 6 in the attraction (2 sets of 3) and now 2 sets of 2 to the Belly Dancers, which used to be on both sides of the Taj Mahal." -Darkbeer

See my comments above about the geese.

As for the belly dancers, I'm afraid Darkbeer's mind is playing tricks on him. There has never been more than one set of belly dancers at the Taj Mahal, found on the right side of the reflecting pond. The snake charmer boy has always been on the left side of the reflecting pond. Refer to this YouTube video (it is good for something!) from the 1964 World's Fair to see the single set of belly dancers at the 3:00 minute mark. This same 1964/Disneyland setup at the Taj Mahal is found on the WDW version too, except the WDW version does not include the snake charmer boy on the right side of the pond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKt_o6AflbI&feature=related

But be careful! Mr. Disney had Goofy and the Mad Hatter and the Seven Dwarves appear on national television at his new Small World ride. They can be seen at the beginning of the video helping people get into their boats to begin their trip around the world.

What was Walt thinking! This ride is supposed to be entirely free of his Character based marketing! This is supposed to be a prayer for world peace, not a character ride! :ROFLOL:

You can compare the 1964 World's Fair staging and the 1966 Disneyland staging to the 2009 reopening of the ride at this next video. Find the exact same Arabia scene, with all the exact same AA dolls from the 1960's in the 2009 version. Except now there is an additional flying carpet with two new dolls overhead that look like Alladin and Jasmine. The Arabia scene appears at the 3:35 minute mark in this 2009 video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhPRxf1sp2Q

All the original World's Fair dolls are still there, with new Character additions next to the originals. The Doll Crisis of '09 has been averted, thanks to YouTube!

I thought WDW had the Snake Charmer. Anyway I appreciate your sense of sarcasm but the characters at the Worlds Fair were there to promote the Disney Attractions. There is not a single character in IASW Carousel of Progress' Magic Skyway or Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln.:animwink:

 

[ChimneySweep]

Actually, people (including myself), love change but it really depends on what the change is. Hey, let's replace the castle with a huge rollercoaster. So what? Its change right? Change is good!

:ROFLOL: Well said!

Put a rollercoaster in the castle? Don't give them any ideas!!

 

[dxwwf3]

Pretty much every ride is a merchandising advertisement. That's why there are gift shops outside of almost every ride. You're in a Disney park and if Disney is not allowed to advertise their products wherever they want, then IDK where they can.

That is true, but I think there is a difference between selling merchandise of a great attraction and changing or creating an attraction mainly because of merchandise. While the end product seemed to have turned out ok, I think that many people feel that these changes weren't made to plus the attraction as much as they were to push pins and plush.

And instead of plusing the attraction the same way they did the Haunted Mansion, by adding completely original ideas, they took the easy way out. Now if what is created is at least done well, then I don't think too many people are going to mind or complain. And personally I feel they did a fairly good job on this update. I think they could have definitely used the money wiser, but I don't think they screwed the place up either.

Many of us believe that the parks are at their best when the Imagineers are allowed to come up with their own stories. People like myself grew up with EPCOT Center and saw that you don't have to be familiar with an attraction's cast or story in order for it to be successful.

 

[HMF]

Come on, they didn't ruin anything. In fact, based on the pictures I've seen, this refurb kicks the attraction up a notch. Besides, you can hardly notice the characters, and alot of people who've riden the new version say it was a kind of "I Spy" game, trying to find the characters...
I really hope they do this to WDW.

That's the Point! The ride is supposed to be about the message of World Peace' not an I Spy game.

 

[TP2000]

I thought WDW had the Snake Charmer. Anyway I appreciate your sense of sarcasm but the characters at the Worlds Fair were there to promote the Disney Attractions. There is not a single character in IASW Carousel of Progress' Magic Skyway or Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln.:animwink:

The snake charmer may be somewhere else in the WDW version. But he is not placed alongside the Taj Mahal reflecting pond, which is where he was at the 1964 World's Fair, and where he remains in the 2009 Disneyland version.

My point about the Characters at the Fair was that Walt purposely included them in the Pepsi pavilion kickoff ceremonies because it's a small world was nationally marketed with the tagline "Disneyland Fun at the World's Fair!" . They didn't include the Characters in any ceremonies or marketing campaigns for the Ford, General Electric or Illinois pavilions, probably because the subject matter for those shows didn't lend itself to childish delights.

But knowing that, it makes me think that perhaps the folks who are trying to channel Walt from beyond the grave may not be quite on the same wavelength as Walt apparently was when the ride opened as the Pepsi pavilion in April, 1964. It's just an interesting thing that the Characters were included in the ride loading area for the TV cameras, that's all. :animwink:

 

[Wilt Dasney]

That's the Point! The ride is supposed to be about the message of World Peace' not an I Spy game.

I've always thought it was both. :shrug:

 

[SirGoofy]

That's the Point! The ride is supposed to be about the message of World Peace' not an I Spy game.

And the message is still there.

 

[TP2000]

Did you see the video that I posted earlier (I think a page back)? It points out the new counterpoints VERY well, except for the Whole New World one.

Thanks for the link! :wave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeX7SqabLqA&feature=channel_page

I went and watched that YouTube video where he plays and rewinds the audio from the ride to try and catch the new melodies in the background. I have to say even with my good Sony earphones on and turned up very loud, and after rewinding and playing and rewinding again, I couldn't make out the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo or the When You Wish Upon A Star. I was able to hear a few notes of the Golden Afternoon though. Anything new music that may have been included for Alladin, Mushu, Pumbaa, Nemo, or Lilo was not even caught by that guy's YouTube video, so I don't think there's anything there.

But then that begs the question.... HUH??? I've ridden the new ride five times over the last two days, and I was already very familiar with the ride. And I didn't hear a darn thing different when I was actually in the boat. Only when I would rewind and listen very hard at home could I pick out a subtle and short change in a couple select scenes.

Clearly this audio change isn't any big deal. After listening and relistening to the clips online, I was reminded of the old 20th century craze of playing Beatles records backwards and trying to find the hidden messages. :lol: