Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
They are still trying to innovate. The only problem is, they are doing it potentially poorly and making some big decisions. In a real way, moving away from attractions and toward Interactive Games and NextGen *is* a Blue Ocean thing... but it remains to be seen if this is daring-but-justified, or daring-and-stupid. The first would mean they are visionary, the latter would mean they made a billion dollar mistake.

When was the last time you saw a WDW commercial that featured any of the walk-around interactive game experiences, NextGen, FP...really anything that would fall into the category of this new blue ocean?

Why would that be?

Maybe because those aren't the things that get people into the parks. You can game at home. You can't ride Thunder Mountain from the comfort of your sofa. You can't experience the Stretch Rooms from your house.

Attractions move numbers. Interactive gaming experiences are good fodder for Disney Parks Blog posts.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
motion control was not Blue Ocean more like Prehistoric Ocean ... done by Sega(with Sega Active years ago) ... Microsoft decades ago on PC. Nintendo used it as a crux to not invest in new core experiences ... if we bring it back Nintendo was faffing on with M+G, Shops, Restaurants whilst Sony and MS focused on building rides.

Now Nintendo wants the core user back with WiiU, and they have all moved on to different devices ... but that is what working at a software development studio does to ya! ;)
But it was the first time consumers found motion control to be useful and actually adopted it. Everyone remembers the Macintosh, but most don't remember the Xerox Star or the Apple Lisa.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Attractions move numbers. Interactive gaming experiences are good fodder for Disney Parks Blog posts.

There are studies that actually say otherwise too... that attractions are blips and don't add long term attendance in a mature park.

There is a big difference between 'keeping fresh' and 'expanding' when talking about 'attractions' too...

If you want to see your own theory falter.. think about how many people would throw up their arms and say 'I won't go anymore' if tomorrow Disney ended EMH, MagicalExpress, FP, and meet and greets.

A resort like WDW is a combined experience - attractions represent one piece. Magic Mountain is an example of 'all attractions' at all costs. You need more than 'whats new this year' to keep people coming back year over year.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
If you want to see your own theory falter.. think about how many people would throw up their arms and say 'I won't go anymore' if tomorrow Disney ended EMH, MagicalExpress, FP, and meet and greets.

Far fewer than if they decided to close all the D- and E-tickets and replace them with Kim Possible- and Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom-type games. Especially if they kept the ticket prices what they currently are.

I suspect for many people the rides and entertainent are what create whatever perceived value the parks have.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
-
Thought i would share this...since Tony is one of the topics and is on my mind a lot these days.

Tony Baxter getting some love from a respectful fan.
This was a window display that was at All Star Music last week, before he announced his retirement.

WDWwindow3_zps4aded3b1.jpg


Someone still loves you, Tony....

:)
 

Genie of the Lamp

Well-Known Member
A resort like WDW is a combined experience - attractions represent one piece.

@flynnibus I agree with everything you said in post #144 except for the latter part of this statement. Yes, WDW is a combined experience that is not solely based on high quality attractions. Just look at ESPN WWOS, the golf courses and even DTD. However, attractions represent the biggest piece of sliced pie/pizza there is in that dish. It's like Mr.Spirit said in his one post a while back, the attractions are the main entrees on the restaurant menu while all the M&G's and other stuff you mentioned there are like the appetizers and desserts that are on that menu to only successfully enhance and enrich a persons/groups vacation stay at WDW. Other than that, that post of yours was spot on.
 

BrightImagine

Well-Known Member
All of this makes sense to me in combination with the arguments on the other thread about tilting toward first-time or "once in a lifetime" visitors. If your product is geared toward someone who is new to it all, what does it matter if parades and shows are a decade old? There is no need to innovate.

For us personally I feel like things are changing. For a while we were going to WDW more than once a year. Now I don't know. We went recently after a year and a half, and that was mainly to see FLE. We spent almost half our time at Uni. We went to Ollivander's alone four times because my kid was desperate to be chosen for the show. A couple of days ago she admitted to me tearfully (!) that she had had more fun at Uni than at WDW. (I fear I'm passing my own addiction on.)

The plans for Potter phase 2 described here sound amazing. For the first time, I can see a future where we use our DVC for lodging only. Although as Spirit said, this is an addiction that one copes with one day at a time.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Far fewer than if they decided to close all the D- and E-tickets and replace them with Kim Possible- and Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom-type games. Especially if they kept the ticket prices what they currently are.

I suspect for many people the rides and entertainent are what create whatever perceived value the parks have.

It's not a question of 'what is more important' - it's that they ARE important and can't be ignored.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
@flynnibus I agree with everything you said in post #144 except for the latter part of this statement. Yes, WDW is a combined experience that is not solely based on high quality attractions. Just look at ESPN WWOS, the golf courses and even DTD. However, attractions represent the biggest piece of sliced pie/pizza there is in that dish

Same as I said to TalkingHead... It's not a question of 'what is more important' - it's that they ARE important and can't be ignored or left out. I didn't say they were the most important - but to drive the point it's a combination - it's TEAM EFFORT that makes it what it is. Other parks have individual attractions that are BETTER than WDW.. but it's the sum of the parts that keep people interested in WDW and not just seeking out the highlights of others.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
I am seriously considering boycotting purchasing any Disney-based products until things change.
 

Genie of the Lamp

Well-Known Member
Same as I said to TalkingHead... It's not a question of 'what is more important' - it's that they ARE important and can't be ignored or left out. I didn't say they were the most important - but to drive the point it's a combination - it's TEAM EFFORT that makes it what it is. Other parks have individual attractions that are BETTER than WDW.. but it's the sum of the parts that keep people interested in WDW and not just seeking out the highlights of others.

Yep the sum of the parts is > the whole(and by whole I mean attractions), your right. That's why WDW is still as of right now the #1 tourist destination in the world.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
All of this makes sense to me in combination with the arguments on the other thread about tilting toward first-time or "once in a lifetime" visitors. If your product is geared toward someone who is new to it all, what does it matter if parades and shows are a decade old? There is no need to innovate.

Sadly true, and even sadder because the folks in charge of running the Parks are seemingly all too well aware of this.

The assumption is that there is enough newbies coming through the gates to warrant not having to change/update anything, and that the numbers are rosey enough to suggest that Worldphilles and APs and are just fine with the currant offerings.

Nothing could be further from the truth in many cases.

The newbies are just not aware of what they have missed out on, and have nothing to compare the currant experience with. It would be like taking a younger friend to EPCOT, and trying to get them to understand how much better that Park used to be back in the day. Fairly impossible to understand that, unless you experienced it firsthand yourself. So the first-timers are just bedazzled by the Magic because it is all new to them, and they have nothing to compare it with.

I agree that the shift these days is focused much more on targeting the newbies and first-timers.
It seems now more then ever...or maybe that is just the impression i am getting now that i am older.
One look at WDWs newly redesigned website seems to scream this, exspecially now. Sometimes i wonder if Disney is also well aware of how confusing booking a vacation is for most newbies..and that this is in itself a coy business stratgety they are exploiting.

I mean think about it....a first-timer is more apt to buy more then they really need ( exspecially ticket options..) and fall into many of the sly traps hidden in there ( Preferred Rooms, trip insurance,etc).
Surely they are aware of how much easier it is for a greenhorn to fall for such ploys.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I am seriously considering boycotting purchasing any Disney-based products until things change.
Come over and visit Universal. They've got some really exciting changes happening!:)

Seriously, I still very much enjoy WDW's resorts (except for the prices:(), water parks (love the theming), and DTD's Marketplace. It still feels great every time I drive underneath the WDW archway.

What are noticeably absent from the things I still like are the theme parks. Nearly all of their "great" attractions are more than 10 years old and starting to show their lack of proper maintenance. A lot of WDW's attractions are "classics". I'm glad a new generation gets to experience them so it doesn't bother me too much that WDW isn't trying to keep pace with Universal. However, there is absolutely no excuse for the lack of proper maintenance. WDW charges premium prices for a premium experience and there's no reason for them not to deliver on that premium experience.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Blue Ocean Strategy is stunningly basic in its footprint. Essentially, you just stop -- STOP -- competing in your industry and seek only to exploit your existing base. Competition is deemed irrelevant and can be ignored because you are not drawing from that 'ocean' but poaching in your own pond instead.

I don't think this is accurate, business people acknowledge that "Red Ocean" strategies of bareknuckled competition are needed, but that Blue Ocean means basically inventing a niche product which is novel and new in order to *grow* the business.

Disney has looked at this before, as with a certain niche boutique park, and no doubt Universal will copy MagicBand and other innovations. You can do Blue Ocean for a while, but eventually the ocean turns red.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
I can't say Tony was a victim. No one who gets paid what he did to do what he did is a victim. But was he wasted? Was his talent wasted by TWDC? Absolutely.

Tony was obviously more than just a guy out to make a buck off of his amazing career at Disney, which will no doubt earn him a window on Main Street. Being forcibly sidelined while you ache to do something is being victimized, as a poet once said,

Let the beauty we love to be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Same as I said to TalkingHead... It's not a question of 'what is more important' - it's that they ARE important and can't be ignored or left out. I didn't say they were the most important - but to drive the point it's a combination - it's TEAM EFFORT that makes it what it is. Other parks have individual attractions that are BETTER than WDW.. but it's the sum of the parts that keep people interested in WDW and not just seeking out the highlights of others.
They shouldn't be left out, nor should it be forgot the resorts are there because of, and to a certain degree to support, the parks.
TDOs and Burbanks mentality now is that they are a by-product of a far larger entity and that they are all closely connected. That could be the biggest mistake.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
One of the inherent failures of Blue Ocean is it is a short term model. It ends up ruining the company.

Wasn't Disneyland a Blue Ocean sort of project? For many year, if you wanted a high quality theme park experience, Disneyland was about it in terms of being the pinacle, though there was Knotts as a second rate choice. The Blue Ocean became Red Ocean as Universal, Sea World, and others popped up, and more recently, Potterland proves that Disney doesn't own a monopoly on highly immersive lands, though they obviously still have the most.
 

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