Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[the.dreamfinder]

You just showed why construction is gonna take as long as its gonna take on this. If they can pull off some of the things they have planned it is gonna change what we think of as an immersive experience.

Yeah, I thought that they would have this done by late 2014. Mid 2015 seems a lot more likely. Probably another reason why they're building transformers.

 

[culturenthrills]

They've already done that when they opened Islands of Adventure in 1999. Then they did again with The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. And soon, they will blow our minds once again.

I will never forget the first time I walked into IOA. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't understand how a park this amazing was so dead. It is great that since HP opened this park is finally getting its due and the plans the have for the future will improve some of the weaker parts.

 

[StageFrenzy]

I will never forget the first time I walked into IOA. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't understand how a park this amazing was so dead. It is great that since HP opened this park is finally getting its due and the plans the have for the future will improve some of the weaker parts.

One of the problems with IOA is lack of people eating smaller attractions. Most of the smaller attractions are limited interest and capacity. Like the trolly, long wait for such small payoff. Also if it wasn't interested in making as much noise it would be more enjoyable/tolerable. They also have a spotty history with the stage show in toon lagoon. I will say only had to dodge 5 ECVs today

 

[StageFrenzy]

Thankfully, Viva zzzzzzz Elvis (wha? what'd I miss?) is gone. KA is impressive technically, but meh creatively to me, although most who see it like it. Believe is godawful. Love is the one good new permanent show from Cirque in a while, and the only other show besides O that I recommend without reservation. I think everyone should see O at least once. Really. See it. Iris in LA was impressive creatively and technically, but a stupid idea to put it in LA as a permanent show, and it also just closed due to no attendance. Cirque needs to pull back and stop churning out product. There's only so many ways you can repurpose the same acts over and over again and have the same people want to see it for $100+ per ticket.

I'm sorry, I got sidetracked on Cirque. I did warn you.

The really cheap resorts have definitely jacked up the pricing...no more $29 rooms at TI or Monte Carlo. But I still see $79 at Paris and Planet Hwd every so often. I'm ticked off at Morgan's for the Delano licensing deal. theHotel is one of my secrets and pretty perfect the way it is, and they're messing that up. Oh well. Venetian/Palazzo is great.

Completely off topic...oops. Sorry.

I feel the same about KA cool set up/stage but it didn't deliver in my opinion. I was in Vegas in April of 2011 they weren't quite begging people to come yet. It just did not look like Cirque However I saw Kooza when it came to town and i thought it was the best traveling show since Quidam and even with La Nouba.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I am right there with you. At the suggestion of others on the "Spirited" thread I have been really looking at planning a Universal/Seaworld trip in place of my annual Disney trip. We visited Busch Gardens Williamsburg this past summer, and we absolutely loved that park so I am not averse to trying new parks. I have just not been hugely interested in Universal, but I am giving it a second look right now.

At this point, I figure I can keep going to Disney and spend my energy getting angry at what I see happening or I can put my money where my mouth is. I don't like MyMagic or the concept of FP+, and I just can't see visiting again until I see it rolled it and how it truly affects the vacation experience. Maybe Disney won't care much that I stopped coming because I have only stayed Deluxe once and I don't buy a lot of souvenirs.

It's sad that a place I love only sees me as a number or a revenue source to exploit. They have taken my loyalty for granted, and I have let them. I have accepted their price hikes and their stale products because a Disney vacation meant something to me. I believed in the magic. Now, I sadly realize that the relationship has been one-sided for a long time. I am sure many of the Disney executives would say, "It's business, not personal. We have to do what's best for the bottom line." To that, I quote Kathleen Kelly from You've Got Mail (don't roll your eyes at me!), "What is that supposed to mean? I am so sick of that. All that means is that it wasn't personal to you. But it was personal to me. It's *personal* to a lot of people. And what's so wrong with being personal, anyway?"

(Sorry for being melodramatic. This thread just makes me mourn what once was.)

I suggest using one of the Universal Orlando Resorts as base camp. And remember one thing. Universal is NOT Disney and they are not trying to be. They don't rely on "nostalgia". They rely on "WOW Factor". Their resorts and the service at them are noticeably better than Disney's. If you really are afraid that you'll be disappointed stay at Portofino Bay. It is their top shelf resort and it is a very nice hotel. Their headline attractions are "AMAZING". And I would plan a day at SeaWorld.

Busch Gardens Tampa is a great park, but it doesn't have the atmosphere that Busch Gardens Williamsburg has. But it is still a fine park in it's own right.

The first time I planned a trip to Orlando that didn't include WDW was a sad day for me. When I got home from that trip I was amazingly pleased with my decision to walk away from the mouse. While the parks at Universal are more high energy than WDW, the overall tone of the resort experience was more relaxing. I didn't feel like I had to rush everywhere to see everything. We actually took time to relax at the pool that wasn't crammed between 2:00pm Space Mountain FP return times and 5:30 ADRs at AnyRestaurant in World Showcase. I felt like I could have a Cheese Board and a bottle of wine at The Thristy Fish while sitting Harbor Side and still go back to the park and ride a few rides without rushing. And if you really want to relax, get a massage at the Mandara Spa at Portofino Bay Resort. While it's not Disney, it'll do.

 

[articos]

I feel the same about KA cool set up/stage but it didn't deliver in my opinion. I was in Vegas in April of 2011 they weren't quite begging people to come yet. It just did not look like Cirque However I saw Kooza when it came to town and i thought it was the best traveling show since Quidam and even with La Nouba.

Quidam is my all-time favorite touring Cirque show, because it actually uses story well. And when I first saw it, the travelling rail system they used for rigging & staging was state of the art. The way in which they used it was pure brilliance, especially for a temporary set-up.

 

[heatherkatheleen]

My take on this is that the execs will wring the parks dry, and then let them die.

Ugh. All the memories I have in those parks... I feel like a part of me dies when I consider those parks dying. It's like having a piece of my life ripped away from me.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

On the Social Media front, Paperman is about to hit 10 million views this evening. So how much money does Disney spend on the Mommy bloggers and Lou Mongellos to connect with the fans?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Quidam is my all-time favorite touring Cirque show, because it actually uses story well. And when I first saw it, the travelling rail system they used for rigging & staging was state of the art. The way in which they used it was pure brilliance, especially for a temporary set-up.

Quidam is also my favorite Cirque show. I do like the traveling shows more than the permanent shows. They just seem to try harder.

 

[Skippy's Pal]

Sadly true, and even sadder because the folks in charge of running the Parks are seemingly all too well aware of this.

The assumption is that there is enough newbies coming through the gates to warrant not having to change/update anything, and that the numbers are rosey enough to suggest that Worldphilles and APs and are just fine with the currant offerings.

Nothing could be further from the truth in many cases.

The newbies are just not aware of what they have missed out on, and have nothing to compare the currant experience with. It would be like taking a younger friend to EPCOT, and trying to get them to understand how much better that Park used to be back in the day. Fairly impossible to understand that, unless you experienced it firsthand yourself. So the first-timers are just bedazzled by the Magic because it is all new to them, and they have nothing to compare it with.

I agree that the shift these days is focused much more on targeting the newbies and first-timers.
It seems now more then ever...or maybe that is just the impression i am getting now that i am older.
One look at WDWs newly redesigned website seems to scream this, exspecially now. Sometimes i wonder if Disney is also well aware of how confusing booking a vacation is for most newbies..and that this is in itself a coy business stratgety they are exploiting.

I mean think about it....a first-timer is more apt to buy more then they really need ( exspecially ticket options..) and fall into many of the sly traps hidden in there ( Preferred Rooms, trip insurance,etc).
Surely they are aware of how much easier it is for a greenhorn to fall for such ploys.

Your comments struck home with me. As an authentic Baby Boomer who grew up with "Disneyland" (the TV show) and the Mickey Mouse Club, the "nostalgia factor" has been big in driving our family trips, vacations that leg me leave my real stress-filled world behind. But the stress level in WDW vacation planning has been building - the 180-day ADR's, the 7-8 months in advance planning to know what ADR's you want, etc. To some degree, of course, planning can be fun. But I don't go to Disney to be tied to digital devices. I am deeply troubled by what seems to be the looming packaging of "experiences" limiting my choice in favor of supporting predictive modeling. As I read this string and see how BOS explains the erosion of the Magic, the hoops that vacation planning now requires, capital expenses in new, external non-Disney properties, the backs that have been turned to what used to be Disney quality and innovation --- and how BOS seemingly justifies the "milking" of newbies and first-timers, it's tempting to think that Disney has effectively written-off the "aging Baby Boomers" in favor of, well, a new generation that never knew the "old Disney," the old innovation, the old quality, the old ways of doing business. Living as we do in an increasingly "good enough" society, why should Disney be any different I guess. So sad. As I've gotten older, I've been dreading the time when I would be facing my "last trip to Disney." Maybe that's already happened.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

One of the problems with IOA is lack of people eating smaller attractions. Most of the smaller attractions are limited interest and capacity. Like the trolly, long wait for such small payoff. Also if it wasn't interested in making as much noise it would be more enjoyable/tolerable. They also have a spotty history with the stage show in toon lagoon. I will say only had to dodge 5 ECVs today

The Universal Parks aren't perfect. But you can tell they are trying hard at making a quality guest experience. They don't take the guests for granted. The feeling I get at the Disney Parks is they aren't really even trying anymore.

As anyone that has been reading my posts can tell, I am a big fan of what Universal is doing. I popped over today for 2 hours and rode 2 rides, had a pretzel and a Napoleon took some pics of the Mardi Gras prep and headed home. I am really looking forward to their Mardi Gras Celebration. They really go all out for it.

It pains my because Disney taught me what a quality theme park vacation is all about. It is just that Universal is providing more of what I expect from a Destination Theme Park Resort than WDW is. In my opinion The Disneyland Resort and Universal Orlando Resort are kicking on all cylinders and WDW has pushed in the clutch and are simply coasting

 

[Clever Name]

(49ers tomorrow!)

I'm detecting a west coast bias.

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

As much as it pains me to say this, I can see why TDO is not investing in any new attractions right now. The Magic Kingdom is the #1 theme park destination. They are already on top. We have already established there are no slow times at the park now. If they were to build a new attraction, where would all these people go? Would more guests really come, increasing the amount of money spent exponentially?

No, I don't like it. Yes, I loved the parks mid 70's-mid 80's. I remember the street sweepers, the painters, the absolute perfection.

I also recall the company nearly went bankrupt.

 

[BryceM]

I will never forget the first time I walked into IOA. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't understand how a park this amazing was so dead. It is great that since HP opened this park is finally getting its due and the plans the have for the future will improve some of the weaker parts.

Agreed. It makes me happy to see that Islands of Adventure has had such a dramatic attendance boost. That crowds can be shoulder to shoulder. That wait times can reach 120+ minutes. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter made a semi-popular park into one of the world's most known and renowned parks.

It's such a great park and I love what Harry Potter has done for Universal Orlando as a whole. It also helped to set fire to a chain of new and exciting additions to the parks.

(Though I'm still a bit bummed about losing The Enchanted Oak Tavern and the original Dueling Dragons...)

 

[JLW11Hi]

No.

Pixar is going to focus on what it has done remarkably well ... although I have some worries that Monsters U isn't gonna be the smash they think.

If Cars 2 and Brave have been any indication, my hopes are not high for Monsters U. They really need to get back on the ball...

As long as I possibly have your attention by quoting your post Spirit, I wanted to ask you a question based on something you said on the previous (now obsolete?) thread. You explained how Cars Land in DL was an anomaly and not a good indicator of where WDI is heading because of John Lasseter's contractual influence. Would you say the same about Potterland at Uni? Wizarding World is wonderful, and it looks like the Diagon Alley addition will be just as great, but how much of this is because of JK Rowling's influence? I'd be more satisfied about Universal's future compared to Disney's if I saw some other great attractions being planned outside of Harry Potter.

 

[BryceM]

I'd be more satisfied about Universal's future compared to Disney's if I saw some other great attractions being planned outside of Harry Potter.

There is currently a planned Springfield expansion around The Simpsons Ride, Transformers: The Ride is moving along at insane speeds, a Jurassic Park expansion is supposedly coming true soon and Despicable Me: Minion Mayhem opened just last year and its an AMAZING ride.

 

[OFTeric]

Yep, but that's why Disney came out with their Magical Express service, and before that, MGM Studios...now MyMagic+, what they're really trying to do is handcuff their guests into only staying onsite and not venturing out to the other parks with all of the hot, new attractions.

The reason why Mears drivers drive Magical Express buses on 417 to WDW is because there are no Universal Billboards. According to my friends at Mears they are not allowed to take anyone down 528 when they are driving a Magical Express bus.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I also recall the company nearly went bankrupt.

And trying to blame that on the cash cows that were Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom would be an extreme historical revision. What really killed the company was the very weak live-action division (first and foremost and what was considered the "bread and butter" of the studio), the increasingly poor value of television (with NBC dumping Disney and no cable channel yet), the infrequency of new animated features (3-4 years apart), the spending related to EPCOT Cener, Tokyo Disney and New Fantasyland happening all at once and the lack of new diversification and creative drive. THAT was what nearly killed the company, not trying to make MK look decent.

 

[asianway]

The reason why Mears drivers drive Magical Express buses on 417 to WDW is because there are no Universal Billboards. According to my friends at Mears they are not allowed to take anyone down 528 when they are driving a Magical Express bus.

I love a good conspiracy theory more than the next guy, but wouldn't the fact that the south airport exit & 417 are the quickest way to property factor in?

 

[OFTeric]

There are studies that actually say otherwise too... that attractions are blips and don't add long term attendance in a mature park.

There are numerous studies that I could cite to support this statement. One of the most powerful ones are studies that show over and over again, that the most memorable experience children have on average is the hotel pool. Not attractions, not characters, not dinner shows... but the hotel pool.

As you have noticed Disney has used this and perfected it over the years, which the new Finding Nemo pool area at the Art of Animation, which perfectly marries Disney's iconic IP that they own, which an incredibly memorable pool area.