Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[Pixiedustmaker]

I was talking BOS and Disney back in 2011!
http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky082311a.htm

My position then was that Disney wasn't being blue ENOUGH and had stayed 'red'... trying to compete toe to toe with Uni and 'reacting' rather than leading.

I think in the end Spirit and I are saying the same thing, though oddly we are using the same metaphor in opposite directions to say that same thing.

Kevin is right, IMHO. Disney needs to do, as Tony Baxter said, things that "astonish" guests. In my mind that means doing stuff that is in Blue Ocean territory, i.e. really immersive amazing lands/attractions. Look at Carsland, that is kinda Blue Ocean as Disney has a lock on the characters and I doubt anybody will try to rip off the Route 66 nostalgia so quickly, and the scale is beyond even a lot of what has been done in Disneyland.

People complain about MagicBands, but Disney is forging the way with this tech, and will presumably be years ahead of Universal and other parks.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Kevin is right, IMHO. Disney needs to do, as Tony Baxter said, things that "astonish" guests. In my mind that means doing stuff that is in Blue Ocean territory, i.e. really immersive amazing lands/attractions. Look at Carsland, that is kinda Blue Ocean as Disney has a lock on the characters and I doubt anybody will try to rip off the Route 66 nostalgia so quickly, and the scale is beyond even a lot of what has been done in Disneyland.

People complain about MagicBands, but Disney is forging the way with this tech, and will presumably be years ahead of Universal and other parks.

We will see how that plays out. So far, the consensus is 50/50 at best as to whether people even like them.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I wonder what happens if they kill FP+ and go back to a non FP model?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

We will see how that plays out. So far, the consensus is 50/50 at best as to whether people even like them.

Of course, not everybody is going to use this technology, I see mostly tech savy young families with teenagers. I also see some APers using them just for convenience, especially if the RFID is also available in something else besides a wristband, such as a badge that you wear around your neck or something.

If they make something so your smart phone can be the MagicBand, then I would definitely want something like this. Things that make life easier usually become popular. After all, we're all lugging around some pretty powerful computers in our smart phones, might as well use them to get tickets/keep track of fast pass/customize park experiences if possible based on what Disney will offer.

RFID has been batted around for a variety of commercial uses, and I think it is kinda "cool" that WDW is pioneering the use of this tech in a theme park environment. Quite possibly in a decade when RFID is used in many different applications, there will be blurbs about this tech getting off the ground at WDW.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

You know, I'm not really a fan of Harry Potter, but I'm liking it more and more...

 

[ParentsOf4]

I wonder what happens if they kill FP+ and go back to a non FP model?

If TDO was serious about improving their "guests" theme park experience, this is almost certainly is what they should do, completely eliminate FP. The lines would move much faster as a result. But this doesn't allow them to "sell" FP+ as a MM+ feature.

The fact that they are doubling down with FP+ and giving us even more tells us what they really think of their "guests".

 

[HMF]

The one thing that is really bothering me right now is essentially "How screwed are we?". I want to hold out hope that things will get better but my gut is telling me it's a hopeless situation.
One thing I can say is as long as Iger remains the CEO, things are not going to get better and his succesor would have to "Get It" completely otherwise the downward spiral will continue.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Wasn't Disneyland a Blue Ocean sort of project? For many year, if you wanted a high quality theme park experience, Disneyland was about it in terms of being the pinacle, though there was Knotts as a second rate choice. The Blue Ocean became Red Ocean as Universal, Sea World, and others popped up, and more recently, Potterland proves that Disney doesn't own a monopoly on highly immersive lands, though they obviously still have the most.

Blue Ocean isn't about not having competition, it's about ignoring the competition and simply exploiting the customer base you've already developed.

Disneyland, at least/especially when Walt was alive, was not about taking the guests for granted. A genuine effort was made to provide the highest quality experience possible.

The reason the competition couldn't catch up was because Disney had the resources to be the best and actually used them. These days they still have the resources, but elect not to use them because they believe there are better ways of making money (and they're wrong, if you ask me).

 

[Figments Friend]

-
Here is a swell video of Tony*s presentation at the D23 Expo in 2011.
Some cool retro clips...

 

[Rasvar]

I still think that the 'right' way to interpret Disney's move is that they are still trying to be a Blue Ocean company, they way they have been for decades.

In the past, their moves to a blue ocean have been GOOD ones, leading competition to come along and create a red ocean feeding frenzy and competition. So Disney moved again.

They are still trying to innovate. The only problem is, they are doing it potentially poorly and making some big decisions. In a real way, moving away from attractions and toward Interactive Games and NextGen *is* a Blue Ocean thing... but it remains to be seen if this is daring-but-justified, or daring-and-stupid. The first would mean they are visionary, the latter would mean they made a billion dollar mistake.

At least they can't be accused by Will Rogers of standing still. He once said "even if you're on the right track, if you're standing still you'll be run over." Disney isn't standing still. Unfortunately, I think what they did was CHANGE tracks. They were actually on the right track (building innovative attractions that people want) but decided they should change tracks (build experiences, games, and fastpass tricks), and I think it's a mistake. But the train track analogy captures more of what's wrong than BOS, IMHO.

The difference between Disney of past and Disney now in a Blue Ocean idea is that they did not neglect a successful part of the company to engage in it. It was also usually guest oriented moves before. The new "innovations" that Disney is engaging with are mostly corporate oriented. It is all about the metrics and numbers. What always separated Disney from a lot of what its competition did was its ability to connect on the human level. I currently have a Premier pass. I find it highly unlikely that I will renew it. I'm more likely to shift to Universal as their focus is on the guest enjoyment. Disney has grown too dominated by the algorithm and mathematical PhD theory. They are trying to do things like Google when their business is not information but entertainment. When everything becomes about maximization of processes and losing that special intangible touch of the human experience, the "magic" dissipates into binary 1's and 0's.

Disney has gotten so large that it is now a company that does a lot of things well but is forgetting that it built its brand on being excellent. Unfortunately, we as the consumer are just as guilty about accepting it. Come September, unless I am getting passed in by a friend (something I have been loathe to do), I probably won't visit for a while. Universal, Sea World and DLR will probably get my visits and my money. That is assuming DLR does not succumb to the algorithms.

 

[LudwigVonDrake]

So I guess the statement "~Change is coming. BIG, SPIRITED change!~" isn't happening anytime soon?

 

[crispy]

You know, I'm not really a fan of Harry Potter, but I'm liking it more and more...

I am right there with you. At the suggestion of others on the "Spirited" thread I have been really looking at planning a Universal/Seaworld trip in place of my annual Disney trip. We visited Busch Gardens Williamsburg this past summer, and we absolutely loved that park so I am not averse to trying new parks. I have just not been hugely interested in Universal, but I am giving it a second look right now.

At this point, I figure I can keep going to Disney and spend my energy getting angry at what I see happening or I can put my money where my mouth is. I don't like MyMagic or the concept of FP+, and I just can't see visiting again until I see it rolled it and how it truly affects the vacation experience. Maybe Disney won't care much that I stopped coming because I have only stayed Deluxe once and I don't buy a lot of souvenirs.

It's sad that a place I love only sees me as a number or a revenue source to exploit. They have taken my loyalty for granted, and I have let them. I have accepted their price hikes and their stale products because a Disney vacation meant something to me. I believed in the magic. Now, I sadly realize that the relationship has been one-sided for a long time. I am sure many of the Disney executives would say, "It's business, not personal. We have to do what's best for the bottom line." To that, I quote Kathleen Kelly from You've Got Mail (don't roll your eyes at me!), "What is that supposed to mean? I am so sick of that. All that means is that it wasn't personal to you. But it was personal to me. It's *personal* to a lot of people. And what's so wrong with being personal, anyway?"

(Sorry for being melodramatic. This thread just makes me mourn what once was.)

 

[Rasvar]

It's sad that a place I love only sees me as a number or a revenue source to exploit. They have taken my loyalty for granted, and I have let them. I have accepted their price hikes and their stale products because a Disney vacation meant something to me. I believed in the magic. Now, I sadly realize that the relationship has been one-sided for a long time. I am sure many of the Disney executives would say, "It's business, not personal. We have to do what's best for the bottom line." To that, I quote Kathleen Kelly from You've Got Mail (don't roll your eyes at me!), "What is that supposed to mean? I am so sick of that. All that means is that it wasn't personal to you. But it was personal to me. It's *personal* to a lot of people. And what's so wrong with being personal, anyway?"

I kind of see Disney as Lord Cutler Beckett in PotC movies saying "It's just good business." All the way to the part when everything he did gets destroyed by just doing "good business."

 

[articos]

Wasn't Disneyland a Blue Ocean sort of project? For many year, if you wanted a high quality theme park experience, Disneyland was about it in terms of being the pinacle, though there was Knotts as a second rate choice. The Blue Ocean became Red Ocean as Universal, Sea World, and others popped up, and more recently, Potterland proves that Disney doesn't own a monopoly on highly immersive lands, though they obviously still have the most.

Disneyland was the opposite, in my opinion. Disneyland was an attempt to innovate and plus what had been done before, or in effect to both grow the current audience of the day and attract new customers to something that had never been seen or done before.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Wait...I thought it was Blue Sky/Red Ocean! How am I supposed to understand when I'm not even sure of the name?

 

[ParentsOf4]

The difference between Disney of past and Disney now in a Blue Ocean idea is that they did not neglect a successful part of the company to engage in it. It was also usually guest oriented moves before. The new "innovations" that Disney is engaging with are mostly corporate oriented. It is all about the metrics and numbers. What always separated Disney from a lot of what its competition did was its ability to connect on the human level.

Bingo. Disney's current management first asks "how can we reduce our costs?" and second asks "how do we 'sell' this to our 'guests'?" The level of contempt they show their "guests" is astonishing. They completely have forgotten the human element.

 

[djlaosc]

I am right there with you. At the suggestion of others on the "Spirited" thread I have been really looking at planning a Universal/Seaworld trip in place of my annual Disney trip. We visited Busch Gardens Williamsburg this past summer, and we absolutely loved that park so I am not averse to trying new parks. I have just not been hugely interested in Universal, but I am giving it a second look right now.

If you've never been to Universal Studios/Islands of Adventure/SeaWorld Orlando before, I'm sure you'll have a great time!

Especially if you go after Transformers and Springfield and Antarctica have opened this year, which should plus what are already great parks!

 

[BryceM]

I am right there with you. At the suggestion of others on the "Spirited" thread I have been really looking at planning a Universal/Seaworld trip in place of my annual Disney trip. We visited Busch Gardens Williamsburg this past summer, and we absolutely loved that park so I am not averse to trying new parks. I have just not been hugely interested in Universal, but I am giving it a second look right now.

I think you'll absolutely love Universal. Especially if you stay on-site at one of the hotels, which are beautiful, especially Portofino Bay, which is themed to an Italian sea-side village. The room-key doubles as an unlimited Express Pass and the walk to the parks is short, but very nice and relaxing. Plus, the parks are world-class when it comes to theming, atmosphere, maintainence, quality of the attractions and service. When it comes to theme parks, nobody does it like Universal or Disney. It's just as simple as that.

SeaWorld is such a beautiful park, but I haven't been there since Manta opened. It's definitely more relaxing and all about the marine animals, kind of like how Animal Kingdom isn't focused on just rides. I did go to Aquatica, and I wasn't impressed. However, I've never been to Discovery Cove, and it looks like such a unique experience.

 

[culturenthrills]

Even with all the talk, I still don't think people get what Universal is planning with Potter 2.0.

Gringott's Vault alone is going to blow the roof off of the themed entrainment industry. Italian marble inlaid floors and crystal chandeliers along with advanced AAs in the queue. And everything in the special effects arsenal on the ride. This thing is going to be a beast.

King's Cross Station load platform is going to be a wonder at close to a football field in length and fully themed complete with glass ceiling. The ride system isn't actually a ride system as much as a real 176 passenger Doppelmayr commuter train with Parallax screens for windows.

There is supposedly a Borgin and Burkes dark arts shop walk through. And a special effects laden Weasley Wizard Wheezes shop with in store fireworks.

You just showed why construction is gonna take as long as its gonna take on this. If they can pull off some of the things they have planned it is gonna change what we think of as an immersive experience.

 

[BryceM]

You just showed why construction is gonna take as long as its gonna take on this. If they can pull off some of the things they have planned it is gonna change what we think of as an immersive experience.

They've already done that when they opened Islands of Adventure in 1999. Then they did again with The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. And soon, they will blow our minds once again.