Slash and Burn ...

[agent86]

Slightly off-topic: I find TDS to be beautiful, but a bit over-themed, if that makes any sense. For example, I can't think of any building in NYC with as much over-the-top, ornate detail as ToT at DisneySea.

That said, TDS is STUNNING, and the Oriental Land Company—not Disney—sets the gold standard of how to operate a theme park. Heck, they sell special edition mugs, plates, and desserts at ODV carts because they care about a quality "show" the way Disney used to. You can pick up about five different flavors of popcorn at various locations. Their Christmas celebration is huge and available to all Guests, not just those who pay for an extra ticket. They still hand out pins at the entrance turnstiles for various events.

BTW, in case any of you missed it, TDL is expected to surpass the MK in ticket sales this year. I'll post the article when I find it.

One thing I've always heard about the Tokyo parks is that they are extremely crowded you tend not to get a lot of "personal space". Did you find that to be the case?

 

[dxwwf3]

Great to hear that TDS is going to overtake the MK in attendance. Sounds like sweet justice to me.

 

[yankspy]

I have to agree with you here 100%. And that's something I do notice a lot on these boards. It basically sends a message to Disney that no matter what they do, we'll still continue giving them our money. Over time, where is the incentive for Disney to want to "Wow" us?

On this same note, I also tend to take issue when people on here defend inappropriate cast member behavior with things like, "They have to deal with rude guests all day", or "They have to answer the same dumb questions from guests all day long". It's like a joke that I heard a stand up comedian say one time when he was talking about people who willingly take a job, knowing what's involved in it, and then complain about it. He said, "You never hear about proctologists coming home from work and complaining, 'I'm staring at a$$holes all day long!'" Unfortunately, it always seems that any time someone on here posts a legitimate complaint about how they were treated by one cast member, they are pounced on by members accusing them of "hating all cast members". I personally think the overwhelming vast majority of Disney cast members are incredible, and I salute them for what they do every day to make guests' vacations special. But that occasional bad apple gives the others a bad name, and when we defend their behavior it sends a message that its okay to treat guests badly.

I should think that the incentive would be to wow themselves. I mean we all know what it feels like when we do something and then realize that we could have and should have done a better job.

As far as the CM thing, I try and stay away from those stories here because they are one-sided.

 

[tirian]

I dunno ... that sounds like a Kevin Yee DAK type complaint to me!

NO it is not at all! :lol: Part of the reason I love DAK and Epcot's WS is that they feel like the "real thing," not an over-fantasized version. Imagineers sometimes overdo things at TDR, like the new hotel that's insanely elaborate, but I'm not complaining about it. I'm just mentioning my personal opinion. BTW, having been to Africa—DAK nails it PERFECTLY.

BTW, I forgot, have you actually been to TDS?

I have never been to TDS, which is why all my knowledge of the resort comes from TDL. But I do plan to go back to Japan within a year, and I'll finally get to experience TDS. My knowledge of the architecture comes from company and personal friends' photos. Maybe my opinion will change? (Sorry if my posting style sounds like I've been there multiple times. My writing style is a holdover from college speech class, and sometimes sounds overconfident.)

I posted on another Disney place last week about how conveniently a day after a major media analyst dropped his rating on TWDC stock, based largely on worries about WDW and DL with the economy, Disney put out a Christmas Eve press release touting the record attendance at its parks ... the only problem was the only resorts mentioned were TDR (which again they don't own one bit of) and DLP (which they do own but only partially) ... then it got picked up by a newspaper in WDW's major territory (Birmingham, Alabama) and it just all seemed like spin designed to make people think WDW was doing gangbusters not parks in other corners of the world.

I still will be shocked in Disney ever admits TDL gets more bodies than MK ... it has long been word in Burbank that MK will ALWAYS be the world's no. 1 theme park ... even when it isn't. But maybe things are changing!

It'll be hard to admit that they haven't invested into this park's infrastructure properly. To use your words in the wrong way: Things are changing. With the exception of the inevitable mess from NYE crowds, I've noticed that the MK's maintenance has improved tremendously within the last two months, with some areas looking just as vibrant as they used to back in the glory days.

Anyway, they'll have to admit TDR is number 1 this time around. American tourism is dropping and TDL is expecting over 25 million Guests. You can't spin numbers like that without the public knowing better.

 

[tirian]

One thing I've always heard about the Tokyo parks is that they are extremely crowded you tend not to get a lot of "personal space". Did you find that to be the case?

At TDL (never been to TDS): yes. Oh God, yes. But the huge walkways around the hub help.

Also, the Japanese culture is immensely polite and quite good about handling crowds. They know what to expect, and they deal with it. All of us stupid Americans try asserting our "rights" we don't have! :lol:

Nobody is as bad as the Brazilian tour groups, though.

 

[WDW1974]

NO it is not at all! :lol: Part of the reason I love DAK and Epcot's WS is that they feel like the "real thing," not an over-fantasized version. Imagineers sometimes overdo things at TDR, like the new hotel that's insanely elaborate, but I'm not complaining about it. I'm just mentioning my personal opinion. BTW, having been to Africa—DAK nails it PERFECTLY.

Never been to Africa, but a friend's first response on coming back was 'it was just like being at DAK.'

I have never been to TDS, which is why all my knowledge of the resort comes from TDL. But I do plan to go back to Japan within a year, and I'll finally get to experience TDS. My knowledge of the architecture comes from company and personal friends' photos. Maybe my opinion will change?

Hey, we may be there at the same time! I've also never done TDL and am very interested. Since I've now done all nine of the other Disney parks worldwide, i'm very interested in experiencing OLC hospitality in person.

It'll be hard to admit that they haven't invested into this park's infrastructure properly. To use your words in the wrong way: Things are changing. With the exception of the inevitable mess from NYE crowds, I've noticed that the MK's maintenance has improved tremendously within the last three months, with some areas looking just as vibrant as they used to back in the glory days.

I'm glad to hear that. I didn't spend much time there when I was up around Halloween, but Main Street and Advenureland were really showing some signs of neglect.

Anyway, they'll have to admit TDR is number 1 this time around. American tourism is dropping and TDL is expecting over 25 million Guests. You can't spin numbers like that without the public knowing better.

Ah .... but you are including BOTH parks in that number.

When you split TDL and TDS, you're going to wind up with MK still on top and DL still likely second. Watch.

 

[tirian]

Ah .... but you are including BOTH parks in that number.

When you split TDL and TDS, you're going to wind up with MK still on top and DL still likely second. Watch.

Ah, 'tis true, 'tis true.

*sigh*

 

[agent86]

As far as the CM thing, I try and stay away from those stories here because they are one-sided.

I'm sure in some cases, that's true. And probably in most, if not all, cases there might be a little bit of bias on the part of the guest telling his/her side of the story. I also realize there are guests who go to WDW and are extremely demanding. What bothers me, though, are the CMs who jump to the assumption that a particular guest WILL be demanding or unreasonable before even giving the guest a chance,...simply because that's what the CM had experienced with previous guests.

But the bottom line is that a company should care if an aspect of their business (most notably one of their employees) has failed to provide what's been promised. In the case of Disney, one of those things is the quality of their guest service. Its one of the foundations of Disney's great reputation. So it annoys me whenever I see firsthand, or hear of, a CM doing damage to that reputation.

 

[agent86]

At TDL (never been to TDS): yes. Oh God, yes. But the huge walkways around the hub help.

Also, the Japanese culture is immensely polite and quite good about handling crowds. They know what to expect, and they deal with it. All of us stupid Americans try asserting our "rights" we don't have! :lol:

Nobody is as bad as the Brazilian tour groups, though.

They don't have National Cheerleading competitions there do they? If not, that might just be the selling point to get me to finally go! :lol:

 

[yankspy]

I'm sure in some cases, that's true. And probably in most, if not all, cases there might be a little bit of bias on the part of the guest telling his/her side of the story. I also realize there are guests who go to WDW and are extremely demanding. What bothers me, though, are the CMs who jump to the assumption that a particular guest WILL be demanding or unreasonable before even giving the guest a chance,...simply because that's what the CM had experienced with previous guests.

But the bottom line is that a company should care if an aspect of their business (most notably one of their employees) has failed to provide what's been promised. In the case of Disney, one of those things is the quality of their guest service. Its one of the foundations of Disney's great reputation. So it annoys me whenever I see firsthand, or hear of, a CM doing damage to that reputation.

Agreed. When you have a job dealing with the public you have to develop a thick skin. I am sure there are times when guests step over the line, but guest satisfaction should be the #1 priority.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

So after all 50 odd pages we have established that the ride could have been better, that everyone likes it to an extent, its disappointing to varying degrees that the effects dont work, some posters are well connected and enjoy highlighting the fact, some posters like nothing more than puffing their post count even if it means posting the same thing in 97 ways and that being Canadian (American Lite if you will) leads to a positive outlook in life.

Ohhh and the mummy is a better coaster, in every way.

 

[marni1971]

Pumba - always the Readers Digest Condensed Version thread overviewer

 

[pheneix]

Never been to Africa, but a friend's first response on coming back was 'it was just like being at DAK.'



Hey, we may be there at the same time! I've also never done TDL and am very interested. Since I've now done all nine of the other Disney parks worldwide, i'm very interested in experiencing OLC hospitality in person.



I'm glad to hear that. I didn't spend much time there when I was up around Halloween, but Main Street and Advenureland were really showing some signs of neglect.



Ah .... but you are including BOTH parks in that number.

When you split TDL and TDS, you're going to wind up with MK still on top and DL still likely second. Watch.

Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo Disney Sea had a better year than any American Disney park in 2008. Take it to the bank, deposit it, draw interest, and read the newspaper in case said bank goes bankrupt and gets sold to JP Morgan for $5.99.

Hell, towards the end of the year Tokyo Disney Resort's combined daily attendance was out pacing WDW's combined daily attendance. Know any other theme park resorts that can pull down over 80,000 guests a day on a week day in November?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

So after all 50 odd pages we have established that the ride could have been better, that everyone likes it to an extent, its disappointing to varying degrees that the effects dont work, some posters are well connected and enjoy highlighting the fact, some posters like nothing more than puffing their post count even if it means posting the same thing in 97 ways and that being Canadian (American Lite if you will) leads to a positive outlook in life.

Ohhh and the mummy is a better coaster, in every way.

How true that is.

next topic?

 

[Montyboy]

And no one seems to hate Buddhists, so if you really want to be liked, you might want to start off as a Canadian Buddhist.

 

[hokielutz]

So can we please close out this thread and focus on something else then?

Hope everyone had a great holiday break, Christmas, New Year celebration.

 

[Monty]

So after all 50 odd pages we have established that the ride could have been better, that everyone likes it to an extent, its disappointing to varying degrees that the effects dont work, some posters are well connected and enjoy highlighting the fact, some posters like nothing more than puffing their post count even if it means posting the same thing in 97 ways and that being Canadian (American Lite if you will) leads to a positive outlook in life.

Ohhh and the mummy is a better coaster, in every way.

Hey!
Canadian could just as easily be characterized as "British Lite"... if you will. :lookaroun

I personally prefer to think we take the best of both and leave the dross... Thus becoming the most widely beloved country in the world.








:lookaroun

 

[Buried20KLeague]

You're probably right, being Canadian does help! :lol:

I'm going to try to explain:

I do notice when the Yeti is in "B" mode rather than "A", I just don't let it upset me. I can enjoy the ride in either situation.
I do notice when the steam doesn't work at load and when the waterfalls aren't working. I care, but I still enjoy the experience.
I do care. I don't expect perfection, though it would be nice. I expect things to be fixed if and when they can, but I don't let myself get wound up about trying to figure out whether it should be done this week, this month or even this year. I don't allow it to detract from my overall enjoyment of the experience and I ultimately believe that it isn't as disastrously bad as you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

To utilize your vernacular: The 'tude I take issue with is your seeming refusal to acknowledge that people genuinely enjoy being at WDW and for the most part are either blissfully unaware or simply aren't upset by the shortcomings you seem to dwell on and that they are content. Whether you believe they should be content is entirely your problem, not any of theirs.

Sorry to quote from a post a few pages back, but I've been... Well... Hung over. :lol:

Your point is quite valid. It's the vast majority of people that have no CLUE about all these issues that have been discussed to death in this thread and others. But I think the point of the discussion is that people are worried that if things keep falling (both in quality and offerings), then the average guest WILL notice, and then it might be too late.

I guess I think of it like a tsunami warning system or something. There's an undersea earthquake that nobody notices. People lounge on the beach "blissfully unaware"... But there are sensors out there that DO notice, and those sensors start going crazy sending the message to people on land so they know there's a problem coming. In my mind, we're kind of like those sensors. We see what many don't (hopefully both good and bad, but lately it's been more of the latter)... And send the message out to others in hopes that it can be addressed before the problem is bad enough that EVERYONE notices it.

Hopefully that analogy makes some sense. But my feeling is that there will be a tipping point. A point at which Disney has cut enough and let quality degrade enough to where the "average joe" DOES notice. And I think that's what a lot of us here are trying to help protect against. We're sounding the "early warning"... Even though it's been going on for years. :shrug:

The sad fact is though... It could be a chicken or the egg kind of thing. Will Disney right the ship and pull something like they did for DL's 50th before the "average joe" notices the problems, or will the "average joe" have to notice and stop coming before Disney rights the ship??

And what's with me and all the analogies today???? :lookaroun:lol:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

One thing I've always heard about the Tokyo parks is that they are extremely crowded you tend not to get a lot of "personal space". Did you find that to be the case?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but I had a thought on it.

The space thing was kinda weird. At times, it was an issue. Like... When riding on their subway system around the city. HOO BOY. I felt like some of them should have bought me dinner before they violated me like they did. :lol: But they didn't even think twice or even notice.

And standing in lines at the parks was that way. Tighter than in US parks.

But then on the other hand, the respect at times was unbelievable. For example... Before Dreamlights (their version of Spectro that I pray we get at some point because it's AMAZING), everyone has little plastic tarps they lay down. And that's your space. And people don't horn in on that space. Even when the parade starts, everyone stays in their space... There's no crowding forward, or last minute people trying to slide in front of you even though you've been there for an hour. And... EVERYONE SITS DOWN FOR THE PARADE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE!!!!!!!!!!! Holy cow, it was wonderful. I'm quite sure that they got a good chuckle out of seeing this American guy's legs fall asleep multiple times and have a hard time standing back up... But that's another story. :lol:

Disney Sea is also a place where personal space isn't an issue. The crowds are much lower there... Almost surprisingly so. At times it was almost like we felt like they really didn't understand what a gem they actually have there. That it's taken for granted. And I think it's because the folks over there love their characters (it's almost scary - one guy we saw in line for Pooh was wearing a full Marie head, tail and paws) and there really aren't many characters around Sea. I think that keeps many of them at the other gate.

But I will say this: When we booked our trip to Japan and the TDL resort, it was with the notion that it would be a once in a lifetime trip. And 7 months after returning home, I can tell you with full certainty that TDL (and Japan in general) was so impressive and wonderful that we will return. And probably within a couple years. To us, it was THAT different than our other Disney park experiences. We felt like if we only go back to WDW and DL, we would definitely be missing out on a LOT. And that should say something... That we're willing to fly to the other side of the world again (and soon) because of the quality of the product they offer.

Simply amazing.

We should be so lucky.

EDIT TO ADD: Here's a perfect example of the extreme detail at Disney Sea... It's a picture I took of a little corner of the park, intended to look like the venice canals. The building backing the scene is the Mira Costa hotel. But there is literally nothing back here... No attraction. No store. There's an italian restaurant, and that's it. Other than that, this area is literally just for the view of the people in those rooms at the hotel. Unbelievable.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/album.php?albumid=368&pictureid=4242

 

[imagineer boy]

This website has TONs of pictures that should give a good idea of how amazing TDS is: http://www.tdrfan.com/tds/index.htm

Its simply amazing. Even all of the shops and resteraunts are jam packed with incredible themeing and attention to detail. Even the food carts are well themed. Every single nook and cranny has astounding attention to detail.

I have hope though that one of these days, sooner or later, the WDW parks will get the same royal treatment.