Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Is that why the point system for entry is weighted against an old Sweaty Sock like me.
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Slash and Burn ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Is that why the point system for entry is weighted against an old Sweaty Sock like me.
Monty
Brilliant...and Canadian
- In the Parks
- No
I'm sure we could work something out to let you emigrate/immigrate... :king:
Of course, the only reason they keep me is I was born here. :shrug:
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Already did. Occam's Razor: Simplest answer is always the right one. (People want to ride it, Fastpaseses run out. Ride is popular.)
Tell me, how many times have you BEEN to Animal Kingdom? Not to say that it makes a difference, I'd just like to know.
Now since you like dealing in Cold, Hard, Ascertainable Fact (As do I.) Let's deal in FACT. (The only Facts that can be determined when this is the matter, really.)
When I lost count of how many times I had been on Everest in 2007, the count was at 300. Now let's do a little math and say that each ride took me 15 Minutes. 3 for the ride, Two for Loading and Unloading, and Ten for waiting. I'd say that's fair, more often than not I know Waiting took MUCH longer then ten minutes, but let's keep it a small as we can.
So run the math and that totals down to 75 hours, dealing with two things: Other Guests and the Ride. Not to mention actual time spent at Animal Kingdom or walking around the area.
Now I don't know how many times you've been on the ride, (I'm guessing not as much as me, seeing your disappointment in the ride. Fair, no?)
I'm blessed Mr. 86, to be able to go to some of my favorite places on earth so often. I don't think it brings me any perks or say over opinions, but I do like to think that it adds up to experiences of how the park is on a day to day basis. After 75 hours spent dealing with ONE ride, I DO think it's more than fair to say that person has a pretty good idea of what's going on around him.
And here's another big hole that needs filling: I KNOW that I hear positive things about the ride nearly everytime I go. Even when my favorite things are broken, people still love the ride. Now you say I'm fabricating this illusion up. Then how is it you can say they aren't "getting" the ride. You're doing the SAME thing you're scrunitizing me and others for. Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
Grandiose exaggeration in an attempt to belittle the sentiment of the writer to inflate your own ideas.
Of course it isn't like Wal-Mart on Black Friday, but even on the most uncrowded of days it'd be hardpressed NOT to see the steady stream of people buying Expedition Everest merchandise happily. Now the reason you picked these points across is an easy one: Divide and Conquer. You take five points simply stated that lead to the natural conclusion that it is a sucsessfull attraction. (Which it is, anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.)
I'm pointing out the Forest, not the Trees.
ANY guidebook, feel free to prove me wrong.
I was being generous in that YOU may be the tenth person I talk too.
:lol: :hammer:
...And apparently paying ALOT of attention to how people are "fooled" into riding in Everest, and their quiet disappointment as they sadly shuffle through the Gift Shop and back in line. (Darn, that ride Fooled them Again! Poor, stupid, innocent guests.)
After 75 hours, one tends to pick up on conversation and reactions by others easily. Now you aren't doing any of that right? Different Strokes and all that?
Mr. 86, I'm not crazy.
Well, yes. I'm a little crazy, but that's not the point. The point is that I love Disney. Last night after I read your post and as I tried to get it out of mind for the night, Haunted Mansion Holiday shuffled up on the iPod. And I know that the smile over my face didn't come from the thought "Oh, this is the Premiere Edition, I like the Later music better".
It was the memory of my first night at Disneyland, and how amazed I was when I first stepped into that stretching room of Haunted Mansion Holiday.
As I was listening, and perhaps it was a little too painfully applying to myself, but I realized that it's a Cold Man who sits in the shadows and makes guesses and schemes about how people "don't get" a facility, machinery, and engineering.
It is a Facility, Machines, and Engineering. Whenever I'm disappointed in the shape of Everest (How I can relate in an aspect, how you feel) I think about the REAL beauty of the ride. The way the Sunset hits it at that right time of day. The screams from guests at Broken Trestle, reacting to the surprise I've seen 299 times before. The wind whipping through your hair and that sound of the whistle echoing.
In that mind, It isn't a Facility. Machines, or Engineering. I lose it from time to time. And I just hope I never lose that for good, because I know how easy it can be to lose. Or else there's no point in going every week.
tirian
Well-Known Member
The problem is, the "average Joe" did notice the problems at DL before Disney fixed it. The California press took Disney to task for not maintaining the world's first real theme park, and the BTMRR incident was pretty hard to ignore.
tirian
Well-Known Member
I'm quoting this separately because it's worth pointing out. I've never seen this website before, but it's a great example of what WDI is doing elsewhere, at places with smaller operating budgets than WDW enjoys. This is what happens when WDI doesn't have to get through Fat Cat hoops and layers of red tape to get something accomplished.
In other words, this is how WDI operated when Walt was alive.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Good point. Here's hoping it doesn't take something that extreme for those in charge to "get it".
CBOMB
Active Member
The adventure is in the journey, not the arrival.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Quote from Scott Testa, a marketing professor at St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia:
"The really smart companies, when things are bad, take the opportunity to really grow their brand."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28452746/ (on page 2)
This is what some members have been saying all along, and I'm only quoting it because I'm tired of seeing people who don't know anything about business finances insist that Rasulo's plan of doing nothing is a good idea.
It's not.
"The really smart companies, when things are bad, take the opportunity to really grow their brand."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28452746/ (on page 2)
This is what some members have been saying all along, and I'm only quoting it because I'm tired of seeing people who don't know anything about business finances insist that Rasulo's plan of doing nothing is a good idea.
It's not.
Montyboy
New Member
tirian
Well-Known Member
And while you guys "discuss" this, I'm off to Epcot. bye
Montyboy
New Member
So it was too much.
I figured the discussion was over a while ago.
Have a good time at the park.
I figured the discussion was over a while ago.
Have a good time at the park.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
It has already been established that, in the context of Animal Kingdom's other offerings (or lack thereof), Everest is a huge success. I can also say that, as far as family coasters are concerned, it's a decent design. It's tame enough for most demographics but contains enough thrill to partially satisfy the tween, teen and young adult market.
Where it fails miserably is in the show category; specifically it offers no new show advancements and even lacks in the number of show elements compared to Disney's other mountain attractions. Pretty mountain, detailed queue - not much else. There is absolutely no argument there. Even Space Mountain in the dark offers more show elements. RNRC, with it's UV Sintra cutouts gives the riders more to look at during the ride than Everest.
So if you love Everest, it must be due to the Coaster because there isn't much else. There's nothing wrong with that but let's stop calling this a Disney masterpiece please. My concern is that as the standards continue to drop and the public continues to accept whatever Disney throws their way we lose out on future masterpieces. Trust me, WDI can do much better than Everest.
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
A Disney Masterpiece isn't about the Effects, the Technology, the Cost, or "Show Advancements".
It's about, STORY, THEME, and DESIGN.
Throwing fancy effects for Effect's sake has never been the WDI way.
If I can give you one thing, it's that I would SEE your "Laser-Yeti Mountain Escape and WaterShow Spectacular".
Though I doubt I'd trade it for Expedition Everest any day.
:lol:
DisneyDellsDude
New Member
I love Everest. I think the atmosphere (and my interest in the paranormal) puts this attraction over the top - not the coaster element for me. But that is fun.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
I completely agree that it is the story, theme and design that sets Disney apart in most cases. But the storytelling medium in Everest's case is mostly museum interpretive panels. Other than that, the rest of the queue and the two show elements already mentioned there is nothing else that makes this ride stand out with respect to story, theme and design.
I have never suggested any laser based effect or whiz bang show gags for this ride. There is plenty that can and should have been done with the simple storyline already in place. But as it stands now, I'd take Millennium Force at Ceder Point, close my eyes use my imagination and I'd experience a better story, theme and design than a ride on Everest.
The story is almost non existent once the train leaves the station. There are very few tools to convey the story. Compare Everest to any other Disney mountain and it pales in comparison with respect to the show (theme, story and design, not coaster elements). Have you ever been on Journey to the Center of the Earth? Sorry, can't get excited about a mountain, an animatronic and a projection after riding that.
:sohappy: That's what I've been trying to say. Perhaps you'll have better luck than I've had. :lol:
These folks just don't seem to get the concept that the "storyline" on a Disney attraction only works if it's apparent to the guests. The story they keep falling back on is this whole thing about the yeti being elusive and therefore that's why you only see it for half a second, yada yada yada. They don't get that attractions like BTMRR and Splash Mt are soooo much better at getting the story and theming across.
In fact, I was thinking about this today and it occured to me that following their logic, they must surely think that Dueling Dragons at IOA has a far better storyline than EE. I mean, think about it... It's got one of the most elaborate queues of any attraction (certainly the best queue for any coaster that's ever been built). And throughout the queue line, they are immersing you in the storyline through narration and visuals. The main thing that sets DD apart from EE is that it also happens to be a kick a$$ coaster.
It isn't about those things if you have to watch a documentary, be friends with Joe Rhode or be a Disney fanatic in order to understand it. Other Disney rides can tell the story splendidly without having to do any of those things. EE doesn't.
You've not only misquoted the actual meaning of Occam's Razor, but you also happened to misquote the often mis-quoted meaning of the principle (which you, no doubt, got from watching the movie "Contact" rather than actually having any true understanding of what Occam's Razor actually is). The funny thing is that Occam's Razor (if you truly understand it as opposed to just using it because you heard it in a movie once and thought it would make you sound intelligent) actually supports what I was trying to say. "Contact", while being an excellent movie based on an even better book, misquoted Occam's Razor. In the movie, they refer to it repeatedly and say that it means, "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the right one." Sounds eloquent and all, but how many times in life have you actually found that to be true? Probably not too often, if ever at all. That's because, once again, that's not what Occam's Razor is...not by a long shot.
The basis for Occam's Razor has absolutely nothing to do with how simple or complex something is. What it means is that explanations are often incorrect if they are bogged down by data and other information that has nothing to do with whatever explanation is trying to be reached. Sound familiar? If it does, then that's because that's pretty much what I was telling you in my last post when I told you about data collection and analysis, and how you can't make assumptions based on just one or two factors. Occam's Razor adamently is against assumptions. Which, again, is what I was telling you.
So maybe the next time you want to quote some intelligent-sounding principle in order to prove your point, I recommend you do two things. First, get the quote right (and actually UNDERSTAND what it is you're quoting). And second, maybe you shouldn't use it against someone who is clearly more familiar with the meaning of the term than you are.
Nice try though. :hammer:
PS: Feel free to look up Occam's Razor if you think I don't know what I'm talking about.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's funny you should mention DD as i was thinking about using it as an example.
Part of my point is that if people are paying the kind of prices WDW is asking they probably aren't interested in just reading some interpretive panels, viewing some props and using their imagination to make up for the budget cuts and poor project management in the development of the park's signature attraction. That's why most don't bother to read what's in the queue, they get on Everest and they like it for what it is; a nice calm coaster that the family can enjoy together. Because there is only one other coaster in AK they eat Everest up.
No doubt they enjoy it and scream and laugh as they exit but so do riders of Dueling Dragons. Very few ever come off and say, "OMG did you see that amazing AA figure...I've never seen a shadow projector of that magnitude ever!!!" Of course they shouldn't be saying that, they should be saying things like, "that was so much more than a coaster. I truly felt as though we were being hunted by that monster. It actually seemed as though we were in danger and the fear wasn't just from the G-forces." That would be good storytelling and themeing.
Using our imagination is great when we are at home and haven't paid thousands of dollars to be entertained. You don't have to use your imagination to believe you are in the Himalayas, that part is done pretty well, but you do have to use your imagination if you are to suspend disbelief and buy into the story of the Yeti is "real" and that during our journey we are actually coming into contact with this beast. You don't need to do that in the Haunted Mansion or 20K in Tokyo or Tower of Terror.
Montyboy
New Member
Look up "Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit". It's a list of tools for testing fraudulent arguments.
(In the list I saw, Occam's razor is not cited correctly.)
In this case he is applying the concept correctly… Why do the fast passes run out? It’s because the ride is popular. A better answer might be, "Because people believe it is worth riding, but would rather wait ten minutes instead of 90 minutes."
It’s a Small World is a very popular ride. If they added Fast Pass, and they didn’t run out, would it be any less popular?