Slash and Burn ...

[Animaniac93-98]

Yes and the CEO of Microsoft "doesn't give a damn" if people don't like Windows Vista. And I'm sure the CEO of McDonald's "doesn't give a damn" if people don't like Big Macs. And of course, the CEOs of Ford, GM and Chrysler don't care at all if people can't stand the cars they make. Yes, of course, I'm sure you're quite correct in stating that Disney doesn't care what their paying customers think. :hammer::hammer:

Especially if the majority of there paying customers enjoy the ride and your in a small minority.

I'm a paying customer to WDSHE but I know they don't give a crap if I want them to bring back the defunct Vault Disney line. If a majority like 80% of it's customers did, it wouldn't be dead.

 

[agent86]

Of course if you just wanted attention you have greatly succeeded. I agree with Pumba's very accurate post.

Well for starters, if he intended that post to be directed at me specifically, then he didn't exactly make that clear. As such, I didn't take it to be directed at me. Though I'm sure that after reading this, he may likely jump at the opportunity to say, "Yes it was directed at you" even if it wasn't to begin with.

But all that aside, no I have not been posting just to get attention. I do find it humorous, however, how the number of visits to my profile page has jumped in the past day or so....and all the recent visitors are coincidentally people who have been posting on this thread. :lol:

 

[agent86]

Especially if the majority of there paying customers enjoy the ride and your in a small minority.

I'm a paying customer to WDSHE but I know they don't give a crap if I want them to bring back the defunct Vault Disney line. If a majority like 80% of it's customers did, it wouldn't be dead.

Wild guess here, but....not a business major, are you? :lol:

 

[EpcotServo]

That's the problem. With Everest it seems like you have to know all that stuff in order to really appreciate it. But your average guest is never going to care enough about wanting to know all the behind the scenes stuff...nor should they. Disney doesn't design attractions for the hardcore Disney buff who is going to research and read everything about an attraction so they know how much it cost, who designed it, the backstory, etc. Disney designs attractions for the average guest who is going to experience the attraction for a few minutes and then move on. Everest doesn't seem to be designed for the average guest and that's the problem.

And while I'm sure at least someone will put a negative spin on what I'm saying here, I'm honestly not trying to be insulting when I say that I think a lot of hardcore Disney buffs on this site might be a little outta touch with how the outside world (again, Disney's primary audience) views this stuff. Case in point is that you can come to this site any day of the week and read comments from hundreds of people going on about how "awesome" and "amazing" Expedition Everest is. It seems the majority of posters here include it on their top ten all time favorite attractions list somewhere. And based on that alone, it would be easy to believe that's how Everest is generally received.

I also think that people here love to point out how Everest is the most popular ride at DAK and how guests run to it right away upon entering the park. But you gotta remember...it's DAK! I mean, I think it's a beautiful park and I love going there, but let's face it, there aren't a whole lot of choices of what to run to upon entering the park. And personally if I had never been there and didn't really know anything about which were the good rides, I am sure I'd run over to the big white snowy mountain with the roller coaster running in and around it, long before I'd run across the park to the safari ride that I couldn't see from outside the park. Most people would. It is, after all, a very striking and impressive sight to behold. It's just that the attraction inside it is disappointing by comparison.

Having said that, I do ride Everest every time I visit the park. But that's not because I think Everest is the greatest ride ever. It's because I happen to really enjoy big roller coasters. Everest is far from being a great roller coaster, but it beats any other coaster that DAK has to offer. But if the Incredible Hulk or the Mummy were also attractions in DAK, I'd definitely run to them long before I'd run to Everest. And I might be inclined to skip Everest altogether if those two rides existed in the park along with it. And I suspect most people would feel the same way.

Once again, that's all conjunction and innuendo about what the "Average Guest" likes. The TRUTH is that thousands of guests come through in a day, and each one can have a different opinion. Now if we were to be literal and take stock in what anyone can easily deduce by spending an hour there or even taking one ride on the thing, the "average" result is that guests love it. Fastpasses still run out early in the day, there's still long lines, no matter where you go you'll hear something about "how great that Mount Everest was" or see an Expedition Everest shirt. Not to mention the constant lines at the Gift Shop of people snagging Everest T-Shirts and hats even on the most uncrowded of days. You see this on a few number of attractions I can think of. Pirates, RNR, Midway Mania, Splash Mountain and Tower of Terror. Look in any guidebook to see it marked "one of the best". Look at the billboards still lined up en route to Disney World. Talk to a few Familes and 9 out of 10 they'll tell you they love it. (I'm not a "talker" usully, but whenever I'm wearing one of my EXPEDITION EVEREST shirts, I'll always have a "dad" in line telling me how much he loved the ride. :lol: )

One could argue that they just "like it because it's a Roller Coaster", and I'm sure that's sometimes true. But to assume that the "Average Guest" Doesn't "Get" the attraction is a great and blind leap of faith.

And "Out of Touch"? I'd like to know how many times you go to the parks, seeing how as I try and go at least once every week, I like to think of myself quite "in touch" of the comings, goings, and general feelings of the people around me every time I go.
:shrug:

 

[Monty]

One could argue that they just "like it because it's a Roller Coaster", and I'm sure that's sometimes true. But to assume that the "Average Guest" Doesn't "Get" the attraction is a great and blind leap of faith.

Perhaps because he doesn't "Get" the attraction and believes himself to be average... :lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

I guess this is what WDW1974 thinks is kool-aid drinking, and thinking disney can do no wrong. But I think that Monty is just a positive guy. There's nothing wrong with being positive sometimes. It doesn't mean you're ignorant or high on pixie dust. It just means you can enjoy life a little more. Try it! It might do you some good.:wave:

Thanks. Yet another poster feels he/she knows what I am thinking.

I'm glad Monty is a positive guy. Being a Canadian likely helps!

And I want him and everyone who visits WDW to have a great time. ... BUT ... and there is a J-Lo sized butt here (or has she shed some pounds lately?) ... I wouldn't want people to say 'you know I don't care if none of the effects work on Everest, I'll still love it' ... or 'you know, I don't care if the MK is dirty ... people are pigs and you can't expect Disney to clean up after them' ... or how about 'Disney is perfect just the way it is right now, I don't ever want to see Disney add or change anything in any of the parks.'

Do you see where I am going?

If you're happy ... mindlessly so (and I am not speaking of Monty, you're the one who brought him and myself together in your lovely post) then Disney can let the parks fall apart, grow stale, become dirty and ... well, you're just a positive dude and everything's OK.

That, is a 'tude I have a problem with from anyone claiming to be a fan.

That, isn't the same as someone enjoying Everest even if say the Yeti isn't working right. Or someone who sees eight great things for every two lousy ones, not focusing on the bad. ... I understand those 'tudes and respect them.

Someone saying 'because I don't give a damn whether the yeti ever works, no one else should or Disney shouldn't fix it' would again be a 'tude I'd take issue with.

 

[WDW1974]

That's the problem. With Everest it seems like you have to know all that stuff in order to really appreciate it. But your average guest is never going to care enough about wanting to know all the behind the scenes stuff...nor should they. Disney doesn't design attractions for the hardcore Disney buff who is going to research and read everything about an attraction so they know how much it cost, who designed it, the backstory, etc. Disney designs attractions for the average guest who is going to experience the attraction for a few minutes and then move on. Everest doesn't seem to be designed for the average guest and that's the problem.

I disagree. You don't have to know any of the story in order to appreciate Everest any more than you do the Matterhorn.

BTMRR has one of the most intricate backstories of any attraction at the MK and is loaded with detail. Do you think most guests are aware it even exists? That the mountain is rumored to be haunted by an Indian legend about white men taking gold? I sincerely doubt it. But it doesn't matter. If they do, it adds a dimension and if not they still get a fun coaster. Same as Everest.

Heck, fans have wanted a backstory so bad for Mansion for years that they've crafted one of their own that has taken on some semblance of reality due to the Internet when the attraction never really had one.

And while I'm sure at least someone will put a negative spin on what I'm saying here, I'm honestly not trying to be insulting when I say that I think a lot of hardcore Disney buffs on this site might be a little outta touch with how the outside world (again, Disney's primary audience) views this stuff. Case in point is that you can come to this site any day of the week and read comments from hundreds of people going on about how "awesome" and "amazing" Expedition Everest is. It seems the majority of posters here include it on their top ten all time favorite attractions list somewhere. And based on that alone, it would be easy to believe that's how Everest is generally received.

At the end of the day, if an attraction puts smiles on the vast majority of faces it has likely succeeded (that's why Test Track is a huge success even though I despise it and think it's the most overrated attraction in Disney history).

The average guests are the ones who have made EE into one of the most popular attractions on Disney property. They aren't reading to hear what Disney geeks and fanboys think!

FWIW, I wouldn't include it on my personal WDW Top 10. Likely Top 15 though.

I also think that people here love to point out how Everest is the most popular ride at DAK and how guests run to it right away upon entering the park. But you gotta remember...it's DAK! I mean, I think it's a beautiful park and I love going there, but let's face it, there aren't a whole lot of choices of what to run to upon entering the park. And personally if I had never been there and didn't really know anything about which were the good rides, I am sure I'd run over to the big white snowy mountain with the roller coaster running in and around it, long before I'd run across the park to the safari ride that I couldn't see from outside the park. Most people would. It is, after all, a very striking and impressive sight to behold. It's just that the attraction inside it is disappointing by comparison.

There's plenty to see/do at DAK. It isn't a 'ride' park and people need to get that. But TPFKaTD-MGMS isn't either. DAK's best attraction is KS, which is an 'attraction' in the classic Disney sense. It is a bigger WOW than EE will ever be unless you hate animals and nature (in which case you should skip the park) or you're just an adrenaline junkie.

Having said that, I do ride Everest every time I visit the park. But that's not because I think Everest is the greatest ride ever. It's because I happen to really enjoy big roller coasters. Everest is far from being a great roller coaster, but it beats any other coaster that DAK has to offer. But if the Incredible Hulk or the Mummy were also attractions in DAK, I'd definitely run to them long before I'd run to Everest. And I might be inclined to skip Everest altogether if those two rides existed in the park along with it. And I suspect most people would feel the same way.

Well, it all comes down to opinion ... as coasters go, the Hulk is BY FAR the best of the trio. I think I'd place EE second and then Mummy. But Disney doesn't build parks for coaster junkies ... you either go because you enjoy Disney or themed environments (or with DAK, animals and amazing scenery) or you go elsewhere and ride rolley coasters all day.

 

[Monty]

Thanks. Yet another poster feels he/she knows what I am thinking.

I'm glad Monty is a positive guy. Being a Canadian likely helps!

And I want him and everyone who visits WDW to have a great time. ... BUT ... and there is a J-Lo sized butt here (or has she shed some pounds lately?) ... I wouldn't want people to say 'you know I don't care if none of the effects work on Everest, I'll still love it' ... or 'you know, I don't care if the MK is dirty ... people are pigs and you can't expect Disney to clean up after them' ... or how about 'Disney is perfect just the way it is right now, I don't ever want to see Disney add or change anything in any of the parks.'

Do you see where I am going?

If you're happy ... mindlessly so (and I am not speaking of Monty, you're the one who brought him and myself together in your lovely post) then Disney can let the parks fall apart, grow stale, become dirty and ... well, you're just a positive dude and everything's OK.

That, is a 'tude I have a problem with from anyone claiming to be a fan.

That, isn't the same as someone enjoying Everest even if say the Yeti isn't working right. Or someone who sees eight great things for every two lousy ones, not focusing on the bad. ... I understand those 'tudes and respect them.

Someone saying 'because I don't give a damn whether the yeti ever works, no one else should or Disney shouldn't fix it' would again be a 'tude I'd take issue with.

You're probably right, being Canadian does help! :lol:

I'm going to try to explain:

I do notice when the Yeti is in "B" mode rather than "A", I just don't let it upset me. I can enjoy the ride in either situation.
I do notice when the steam doesn't work at load and when the waterfalls aren't working. I care, but I still enjoy the experience.
I do care. I don't expect perfection, though it would be nice. I expect things to be fixed if and when they can, but I don't let myself get wound up about trying to figure out whether it should be done this week, this month or even this year. I don't allow it to detract from my overall enjoyment of the experience and I ultimately believe that it isn't as disastrously bad as you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

To utilize your vernacular: The 'tude I take issue with is your seeming refusal to acknowledge that people genuinely enjoy being at WDW and for the most part are either blissfully unaware or simply aren't upset by the shortcomings you seem to dwell on and that they are content. Whether you believe they should be content is entirely your problem, not any of theirs.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

Quote of the day. I raise my glass. Of diet Coke.

Ahhhh....great minds think alike.
Diet Coke is like.....oxygen. I can't live without constant infusions of it.:lol:

So yeah....MK....sad....think I wanna go to Disneyland and cleanse myself.

Diet PEPSI! :slurp:

Disney said you'd encounter the yeti. You do that. Nothing wrong or dishonest in their advertising ... not like when they ran (in 2006-07, didn't see them this year) commercials for WDW featuring all sorts of attractions and entertainment that was in fact DL footage and not available in Florida. That was cheap, tacky, sleazy and dishonest and I am happy to see it appears they stopped that this year.

The latest big Walt Disney World 'Your Guide to Everything'-type brochure that you can find in hotels and Wal-Marts and such around Orlando has a picture of Disneyland's Fantasyland on the cover.

At the end of the day, if an attraction puts smiles on the vast majority of faces it has likely succeeded (that's why Test Track is a huge success even though I despise it and think it's the most overrated attraction in Disney history).

Amen, brother!

 

[WDW1974]

Once again, I challenge anyone to find a single post of mine where I've called Everest "crummy". You're having an extreme reaction to my honest opinion of Everest, which is to say that I think its overrated and a disappointment relative to the buildup. I didn't say I hate the ride or that it's "crummy". I just don't think it's as incredible as people make it out to be and I'm always baffled to hear how great people on these boards make it out to be.

I know you're responding to another poster, but I'll take a swing here (while I'm taking a swig of something else!) ... I don't think EE is great. I think it had potential for greatness that was budgeted out of it and has had other things cause it to drop (from the ice cave being cut to water effects to them becoming mist to them being shut off ... or the fact you have holes in mesh and can see outside the mountain ... very tacky) ... that said, considering the political and financial games played at TDO and WDI, I am thrilled Joe and his team were able to get this thing built at all.

Whether someone likes it just comes down to opinion. ... Same as when I hear people talk about how much they love the MK today, I'm baffled. But that may be because I regularly visited in the 70s, 80s and 90s and have been a longtime DL APer too ... and a more recent DLP APer ... and an even more recent visitor to HKDL. When compared to those parks and to its own history today's MK ... well ... it isn't very good at all.

Translation: No you don't have access to these alleged "numbers" that proponents of Everest are referring to whenever you say things like "just look at the numbers". That phrase is merely to make you sound like you have some sort of hard data to back up your opinion of the ride, and you didn't expect that anyone would actually challenge you to share where you got these "numbers".

Note to EpcotServo: For what it's worth, my use of the word "you" in that last paragraph was not directly specifically at you. It was more of a generic "you" to everyone who is in the habit of bringing up these made up "numbers". :wave:

And I am not answering for anyone but myself when I say that I do have access to numbers and I won't even go as far as tell you what department I have gotten them from because you can rest assured that there are people at Disney who don't like me (shocking, ain't it?!) and they'd like nothing more than to fire a friend or two of mine to send a message. I have no intent on allowing that to happen in order to prove myself to people on a fan site. And I do understand why that could make some folks skeptical. But I do ask this: what agenda do you (anyone here) think I could have in touting EE as a huge success when I am anti-management and am not even happy with the finished product? Seriously, why would anyone do that? I have no reason to lie or exaggerate. People (you know the great unwashed masses that wouldn't know this site or any other?) ... they love EE and Disney does have the #s to prove it.

They don't love SGE ... they don;t love MS ... they don't love Imagination 3.0 ... they don't love Tiki Room Under Tom Fitzgerald's Management ... but EE like TT and Soarin and Nemo and Mansion and all the Mountains and Small World and ToT etc ... they love it. Really.

 

[WDW1974]

On that point, we can definitely agree. In fact, as theme parks go, and in terms of overall look and feel, I would say that DAK is THE crowning achievement period. It is, hands down the most beautiful theme park I've ever visited and I think the attention to detail is incredible. Granted, I've never been to Tokyo Disney Seas, and that looks very impressive from the photos I've seen.

It absolutely is the most beautiful theme park I've ever visited.

DL and DLP and YES HKDL would be next.

But DAK just looks like it's been there forever and as someone who toured that land in 1995 when it was literally scrub like what you see on Florida's Turnpike south of Kissimmee, it's just an amazing change. And the detail is incredible.

TDS is, from all I have seen and heard, similar in the detail department ... I will be seeing it for the first time later this year but I wonder if it will amaze me more in an EPCOT Center way ... the area TDR is in is a landfill and not exactly the most beautiful site for parks.

But I'm wasting too much space to simply say I agree!

 

[tirian]

It absolutely is the most beautiful theme park I've ever visited.

DL and DLP and YES HKDL would be next.

But DAK just looks like it's been there forever and as someone who toured that land in 1995 when it was literally scrub like what you see on Florida's Turnpike south of Kissimmee, it's just an amazing change. And the detail is incredible.

TDS is, from all I have seen and heard, similar in the detail department ... I will be seeing it for the first time later this year but I wonder if it will amaze me more in an EPCOT Center way ... the area TDR is in is a landfill and not exactly the most beautiful site for parks.

But I'm wasting too much space to simply say I agree!

Slightly off-topic: I find TDS to be beautiful, but a bit over-themed, if that makes any sense. For example, I can't think of any building in NYC with as much over-the-top, ornate detail as ToT at DisneySea.

That said, TDS is STUNNING, and the Oriental Land Company—not Disney—sets the gold standard of how to operate a theme park. Heck, they sell special edition mugs, plates, and desserts at ODV carts because they care about a quality "show" the way Disney used to. You can pick up about five different flavors of popcorn at various locations. Their Christmas celebration is huge and available to all Guests, not just those who pay for an extra ticket. They still hand out pins at the entrance turnstiles for various events.

BTW, in case any of you missed it, TDL is expected to surpass the MK in ticket sales this year. I'll post the article when I find it.

 

[tirian]

All right, here is one article at USA Today about TDL's record-breaking crowds. Remember, in previous years, TDL was second only to the MK world-wide. This should break those numbers.

(This article does not state TDL will surpass the MK, but it does give estimated attendance.)

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2008-12-24-tokyo-disneyland_N.htm

EDIT: TDL expects over 25 million Guests. The MK welcomed a little over 17 million for the 2007 record. TDR's constant attention to high-quality attractions, shows, and events are drawing repeat Guests over and over.

 

[WDW1974]

You're probably right, being Canadian does help! :lol:

Well, considering that 80% of the fans at Monday's Panthers-Canadiens game were cheering for the team from north of the border, I'm feeling surrounded!

I'm going to try to explain:

I'll try and pay attention!

I do notice when the Yeti is in "B" mode rather than "A", I just don't let it upset me. I can enjoy the ride in either situation.
I do notice when the steam doesn't work at load and when the waterfalls aren't working. I care, but I still enjoy the experience.
I do care.

I agree with all of the above. It disappoints me because I know what it SHOULD be. But I can enjoy it anyway.

I don't expect perfection, though it would be nice.

Fine. But you do realize that's what Disney USED to strive for? They may never have reached it. But it was the ideal ... the goal. The question is, is it OK for Disney to say be 80% of what it was a decade ago? What about 70%? Still worlds better than Six Flags, right?

I understand that you can't have perfection, but when management has a 'tude of 'whatever' ... well, can you see how that might gall some of us? Because many in WDW management do have that 'tude. And, no, that's just not good enough.

I expect things to be fixed if and when they can, but I don't let myself get wound up about trying to figure out whether it should be done this week, this month or even this year. I don't allow it to detract from my overall enjoyment of the experience and I ultimately believe that it isn't as disastrously bad as you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

I never portrayed WDW as a disaster. If that's how you (anyone) read what I have written then they're mistaken. If I felt that way I wouldn't have been there recently and headed back (likely February).

But I am trying to wake some fans up. Because the question is how far do things have to fall before it bothers you (again NOT Monty but ALL of us)? How low do standards have to drop? For instance, would you all be fine if NOTHING worked on EE at all? You just got a coaster ride. Would that be acceptable? Would that even cause you to complain to a lead or at Guest Relations?

I ask this because Disney has steadily been cutting back quality in many aspects since the mid-late 1990s. It's now 2009.

In some regards so many things have been cut and so long ago that new generations are growing up believing that the WDW of today is simply the way things have always been. I think I've mentioned that by WDW's own standards, in the past having the yeti inoperable would have shut the ride down immediately.

Also, I would hope that most people here aren't so self-centered as to believe that just because something doesn't bother them somehow means it is OK to let it slide. I've used the example of Disney cutting shrimp from menus (I'm allergic) to save $$$ as something that wouldn't change my magical WDW visits at all, but I'd fight against them because it would negatively impact the majority of guests. I'm not a morning person and never use (well, except for one Sunday in 8/01) early entry so if Disney wanted to save $$$ by cutting all morning EMHs it wouldn't make one bit of difference to me. But again, I'd be here because I know it would be a negative change for a large number of guests.

That's simply my point.

Not that ANYONE shouldn't enjoy WDW.

To utilize your vernacular: The 'tude I take issue with is your seeming refusal to acknowledge that people genuinely enjoy being at WDW and for the most part are either blissfully unaware or simply aren't upset by the shortcomings you seem to dwell on and that they are content. Whether you believe they should be content is entirely your problem, not any of theirs.

I would say that most WDW guests enjoy the place. That's based on my experiences anecdotally as well as WDW's own research and outside surveying. ... But I also understand that many people DO notice what I point out and aren't happy about it and would never even visit a forum such as this. Some are so unhappy they visit once and never go back feeling the whole place was a giant 'rip off' or the like. Some are frequent guests who cut back visits because they do notice quality dropping.

I've never said people shouldn't be content. I have said I find it sad that so many people ... so many fans ... are willing to defend short-sighted guest unfriendly cost-cutting moves ... and these cuts were happening even in the allegedly 'great' Clinton years, not just the disaster that W has left us.

People can go to WDW, have a great time, and still be unhappy that the magic is getting watered down.

I guess what I am saying is you can love WDW and not be blinded by pixie dust to the real world realities there.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

To utilize your vernacular: The 'tude I take issue with is your seeming refusal to acknowledge that people genuinely enjoy being at WDW and for the most part are either blissfully unaware or simply aren't upset by the shortcomings you seem to dwell on and that they are content. Whether you believe they should be content is entirely your problem, not any of theirs.

Ah, the eternal riddle: Which is preferable, ignorant bliss or informed aggravation?

If you answer within a second or two, you're not giving it enough thought.

 

[agent86]

Fastpasses still run out early in the day,

Maybe this is a good time to tell you a little about what I do for a living (and have been doing for a little over 16 years now). I'm in the entertainment/hospitality industry and am heavily involved in guest service as well as development of informational materials through a variety of data collection methods, survey design and analysis. Now that you have a bit of my resume, let me explain why I just gave it to you...

Your point above about fastpasses running out early is a classic example of something that a LOT of people do and it's a big mistake to put much stock in it. You are looking at an isolated event (fastpasses running out early) and automatically attributing it to something that you already believed to be true in the first place. The problem is that there could be any number of reasons why fastpasses for Everest run out early. I realize that one of those reasons might very well be that Everest is just as universally loved by all guests, like you think. But it is just as likely that it could be attributed to a hundred other possibilities. Perhaps it's because of the concept I described in an earlier post (i.e. People who have never been to DAK before see this big huge impressive looking mountain and assume it must be the best ride in the park, therefore they run to get a fastpass for that one before any other). The point is, you need to look at a lot more factors before automatically drawing your conclusion.

there's still long lines,

(same reasons as above...remember, a LOT more factors, not just these two)

no matter where you go you'll hear something about "how great that Mount Everest was" or see an Expedition Everest shirt.

This is one of those comments I read on here from time to time that baffles me. Maybe the answer is that I've just been going to the wrong DAK this whole time. Because for some reason, I never overhear these types of comments "no matter where you go", yet posters here seem to love to make that claim. It evokes images of walking around DAK and hearing comments right and left all day long about how great that one ride was. It's funny, but whenever I go to any Disney park (or really any theme park for that matter) the types of comments I tend to hear all day are things like, "What ride to you want to go on next?" or "Do you wanna eat now?" or "I'm gonna go to the bathroom and I'll meet you in that gift shop". Things like that. But to hear you tell it, people are just going on and on all day long (and EVERY day apparently) all over the park about how great Everest is.

Not to mention the constant lines at the Gift Shop of people snagging Everest T-Shirts and hats even on the most uncrowded of days.

As with the above, I guess I'm just hitting the park on those unbelievably rare times when this is not happening. You describe it like it's Wal-Mart on black Friday...people clamoring for their Everest t-shirts that are just flying off the shelves right and left and resulting in long lines. The way you tell it, they ought to be dispensing fastpasses for the Everest gift shop.

Look in any guidebook to see it marked "one of the best".

ANY guidebook?? Or just Birnbaum maybe.

Look at the billboards still lined up en route to Disney World.

Wow, all these years I've been of the mistaken belief that billboards are paid for by companies wanting to advertise their own products. But since you're listing billboards as an example of why I should believe Everest is so popular with guests, then I guess I've had it all wrong. So, what, billboards are paid for by guests who love the ride so much that they collectively got together and said, "Hey, let's put up a billboard!". Is that how it works? :hammer:

Talk to a few Familes and 9 out of 10 they'll tell you they love it. (I'm not a "talker" usully, but whenever I'm wearing one of my EXPEDITION EVEREST shirts, I'll always have a "dad" in line telling me how much he loved the ride. :lol: )

So for every 9 "dads" who say they loved the ride, there is a 10th "dad" who tells you he hated it? :hammer:

I like to think of myself quite "in touch" of the comings, goings, and general feelings of the people around me every time I go.
:shrug:

Well you definitely have a different way of enjoying your day at a Disney park than I do. See I have this weird thing about going to the parks, enjoying rides and shows, having some snacks throughout the day, taking a bunch of pictures and buying a few souveneers. But it sounds like you spend most of YOUR day walking around conducting surveys and monitoring what guests are saying in lines and throughout the park. Well,...different strokes I guess. :lol:

 

[agent86]

I wouldn't want people to say 'you know I don't care if none of the effects work on Everest, I'll still love it' ... or 'you know, I don't care if the MK is dirty ... people are pigs and you can't expect Disney to clean up after them' ... or how about 'Disney is perfect just the way it is right now, I don't ever want to see Disney add or change anything in any of the parks.'

I have to agree with you here 100%. And that's something I do notice a lot on these boards. It basically sends a message to Disney that no matter what they do, we'll still continue giving them our money. Over time, where is the incentive for Disney to want to "Wow" us?

On this same note, I also tend to take issue when people on here defend inappropriate cast member behavior with things like, "They have to deal with rude guests all day", or "They have to answer the same dumb questions from guests all day long". It's like a joke that I heard a stand up comedian say one time when he was talking about people who willingly take a job, knowing what's involved in it, and then complain about it. He said, "You never hear about proctologists coming home from work and complaining, 'I'm staring at a$$holes all day long!'" Unfortunately, it always seems that any time someone on here posts a legitimate complaint about how they were treated by one cast member, they are pounced on by members accusing them of "hating all cast members". I personally think the overwhelming vast majority of Disney cast members are incredible, and I salute them for what they do every day to make guests' vacations special. But that occasional bad apple gives the others a bad name, and when we defend their behavior it sends a message that its okay to treat guests badly.

 

[WDW1974]

Slightly off-topic: I find TDS to be beautiful, but a bit over-themed, if that makes any sense. For example, I can't think of any building in NYC with as much over-the-top, ornate detail as ToT at DisneySea.

I dunno ... that sounds like a Kevin Yee DAK type complaint to me!

BTW, I forgot, have you actually been to TDS?

That said, TDS is STUNNING, and the Oriental Land Company—not Disney—sets the gold standard of how to operate a theme park. Heck, they sell special edition mugs, plates, and desserts at ODV carts because they care about a quality "show" the way Disney used to. You can pick up about five different flavors of popcorn at various locations. Their Christmas celebration is huge and available to all Guests, not just those who pay for an extra ticket. They still hand out pins at the entrance turnstiles for various events.

In other words, they run their parks in the 'Disney Way' ... the old, REAL Disney way ... not what passes for it in 21st century WDW.

BTW, in case any of you missed it, TDL is expected to surpass the MK in ticket sales this year. I'll post the article when I find it.

I posted on another Disney place last week about how conveniently a day after a major media analyst dropped his rating on TWDC stock, based largely on worries about WDW and DL with the economy, Disney put out a Christmas Eve press release touting the record attendance at its parks ... the only problem was the only resorts mentioned were TDR (which again they don't own one bit of) and DLP (which they do own but only partially) ... then it got picked up by a newspaper in WDW's major territory (Birmingham, Alabama) and it just all seemed like spin designed to make people think WDW was doing gangbusters not parks in other corners of the world.

I still will be shocked in Disney ever admits TDL gets more bodies than MK ... it has long been word in Burbank that MK will ALWAYS be the world's no. 1 theme park ... even when it isn't. But maybe things are changing!

 

[agent86]

BTMRR has one of the most intricate backstories of any attraction at the MK and is loaded with detail. Do you think most guests are aware it even exists? That the mountain is rumored to be haunted by an Indian legend about white men taking gold? I sincerely doubt it. But it doesn't matter. If they do, it adds a dimension and if not they still get a fun coaster. Same as Everest.

I disagree wholeheartedly, and in fact, that's the very point I've been making. Attractions like BTMRR, HM and others can stand alone as great attractions and can be thoroughly enjoyed without knowing the backstory. If you were to come and post on here and tell me that you didn't like BTMRR, I might be inclined to say things like, "But didn't you think it was cool going through the flooded mining town or seeing all the wildlife everywhere?". In other words, I'd be able to point out things that are very apparent in my attempt to get you to appreciate it (assuming I cared all that much about doing that). But with Everest, whenever someone says they don't like it, someone on here always pipes in with things like, "Well you see, the yeti is an elusive and mysterious creature that no one ever gets more than a brief glimpse of, and the ride is just being true to the legend.", or "But it cost $120 MILLION to build!". My point being, no one ever seems to be able to defend Everest based on the merits of what would be apparent to guests. All they seem to have is the back story and the inside information on how much it cost or how technologically advanced something was. The average guest doesn't care about that stuff.

There's plenty to see/do at DAK. It isn't a 'ride' park and people need to get that. But TPFKaTD-MGMS isn't either. DAK's best attraction is KS, which is an 'attraction' in the classic Disney sense. It is a bigger WOW than EE will ever be unless you hate animals and nature (in which case you should skip the park) or you're just an adrenaline junkie.

I agree with both of these points.

Well, it all comes down to opinion ... as coasters go, the Hulk is BY FAR the best of the trio. I think I'd place EE second and then Mummy. But Disney doesn't build parks for coaster junkies ... you either go because you enjoy Disney or themed environments (or with DAK, animals and amazing scenery) or you go elsewhere and ride rolley coasters all day.

True. But obviously they built a roller coaster at least in part because they know coasters historically are almost guaranteed to boost attendance. I do love coasters, although what makes me want to visit a Disney park (and Universal parks too for that matter) is the ambiance and the theming. But that said, if there's a coaster in the park, I'm most likely gonna ride it. In most cases, it may not be the thing that makes me want to go the park, but I'll still ride it while I'm there. In the case of Everest, it probably is true that it has boosted attendance, but I think that's because it's a coaster and not because it's a great attraction (and certainly not a GREAT coaster either to tell you the truth). I feel similarly toward RnRC, but I still ride it every time I visit DHS. Now in contrast, an attraction like ToT is definitely the type of attraction that will make me want to go to that park. And in the case of DAK, yes KS is definitely the main draw for me there.

 

[WDW1974]

All right, here is one article at USA Today about TDL's record-breaking crowds. Remember, in previous years, TDL was second only to the MK world-wide. This should break those numbers.

(This article does not state TDL will surpass the MK, but it does give estimated attendance.)

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2008-12-24-tokyo-disneyland_N.htm

EDIT: TDL expects over 25 million Guests. The MK welcomed a little over 17 million for the 2007 record. TDR's constant attention to high-quality attractions, shows, and events are drawing repeat Guests over and over.

Yep ... that's the one that came out after the PR wire release and likely inspired the Alabama paper story.

And that number covers BOTH parks.

You watch, there's no way that TDL number won't be lower than MK ... no matter what. Burbank will simply find a way (CMs, comps, hard ticket admits whatever ...) to make sure that if TDL's number is X then MK's will be Y or Z. It just 'must' be that way.