Slash and Burn ...

[HauntedPirate]

Just when you think sanity has been restored, someone brings up the Anti-Walt (aka. Jay Rasulo). :fork: :lookaroun :animwink:

Since I tend to be away for days at a time instead of what used to be my near-daily visits, it's interesting to read 8-10 pages at a time and watch the flow of the posts.

Everything I've read about TDL and TDS (I hate the amalgamation of two or more parks into one 'Resort' moniker.... thanks Rasulo :hurl is that they indeed ARE run the way America Disney theme parks used to be run. Top notch, high quality, worth the price of admission three times over. WDW, IMHO, has allowed itself (or been forced thru management bungling) to degrade to the point where competition has or will overtake it in terms of investment and original, well-themed attractions (Dueling Dragons was Disney-quality in its theming). They are going to start setting the standard, not Disney. If Disney feels that it's perfectly acceptable to follow trends instead of setting them, then they are going to lose a lot of guests. It's up to them to change things back in their favor by actually feeding the cow instead of milking it for all it's worth.

I also agree with the analogy used a little ways back. The posters here who, in essence, sound the warning sirens are like a tsunami detection system - They are trying to alert people to what's going on before it's too late. The reason some of us are so "negative" is that we care too much, we love the place so much that we don't want to see it become a shell of its former self. We can see what a theme park can be like, but we either have to look into the Wayback Machine or look overseas to see it, unfortunately.

I was fortunate enough to have parents that brought me there a number of times while growing up. I have history there. I have seen what they are capable of, or at least were capable of. I've been taking my kids there even more often than I went, because I still love the place, and they enjoy it as well. I want them to be able to visit a park that they can be proud to visit and want to continue to visit, not just have memories of what the place used to be like. Disney can do a HELL of a lot better than what they are currently foisting on the public as "their best efforts". They simply are choosing not to because profits are the only thing that matters anymore, not improving the guest experience to keep them coming back (the whole 'feeding the cow' analogy I used earlier). If they keep milking the cow without feeding it (and that goes for DVC, too - Are you listening, Jim Lewis??? ), eventually the cow dies and you're left with nothing. How will they prop up many of their other less successful ventures without the theme parks profits? And if theme parks tumble, you can bet other parts will follow.

 

[tirian]

Just when you think sanity has been restored, someone brings up the Anti-Walt (aka. Jay Rasulo). :fork: :lookaroun :animwink:

Since I tend to be away for days at a time instead of what used to be my near-daily visits, it's interesting to read 8-10 pages at a time and watch the flow of the posts.

Everything I've read about TDL and TDS (I hate the amalgamation of two or more parks into one 'Resort' moniker.... thanks Rasulo :hurl is that they indeed ARE run the way America Disney theme parks used to be run. Top notch, high quality, worth the price of admission three times over. WDW, IMHO, has allowed itself (or been forced thru management bungling) to degrade to the point where competition has or will overtake it in terms of investment and original, well-themed attractions (Dueling Dragons was Disney-quality in its theming). They are going to start setting the standard, not Disney. If Disney feels that it's perfectly acceptable to follow trends instead of setting them, then they are going to lose a lot of guests. It's up to them to change things back in their favor by actually feeding the cow instead of milking it for all it's worth.

I also agree with the analogy used a little ways back. The posters here who, in essence, sound the warning sirens are like a tsunami detection system - They are trying to alert people to what's going on before it's too late. The reason some of us are so "negative" is that we care too much, we love the place so much that we don't want to see it become a shell of its former self. We can see what a theme park can be like, but we either have to look into the Wayback Machine or look overseas to see it, unfortunately.

I was fortunate enough to have parents that brought me there a number of times while growing up. I have history there. I have seen what they are capable of, or at least were capable of. I've been taking my kids there even more often than I went, because I still love the place, and they enjoy it as well. I want them to be able to visit a park that they can be proud to visit and want to continue to visit, not just have memories of what the place used to be like. Disney can do a HELL of a lot better than what they are currently foisting on the public as "their best efforts". They simply are choosing not to because profits are the only thing that matters anymore, not improving the guest experience to keep them coming back (the whole 'feeding the cow' analogy I used earlier). If they keep milking the cow without feeding it (and that goes for DVC, too - Are you listening, Jim Lewis??? ), eventually the cow dies and you're left with nothing. How will they prop up many of their other less successful ventures without the theme parks profits? And if theme parks tumble, you can bet other parts will follow.

Thank you for getting this thread back on topic after the meaningless bickering about whether or not people like E:E. In subjective topics like this, everybody's opinion is equally valid for himself.

But like you've pointed out, the Slash/Burn that WDW1974 has brought up is not subjective. We're talking about quantifiable business results here, not nitpicking whether or not we like a new napkin design. WDW holds personal nostalgic, business, and entertainment value for me, and I enjoy being there more than any other Disney park because it's practically where I grew up. That's why I hate seeing Rasulo and his clueless, spineless minions who don't even understand their own product take so much away from WDW (and DL, for that matter).

And people reading this better not try to blame the economy. Cuts were made long before the recession; this is just an easy scapegoat for bad management. Remember, it took a negative news story—"This Old Park"—to finally start refurbishing the MK. Now Disney is using the "Refurbishment, not Additions" argument to justify leaving the MK as-is, but the maintenance should have been done for years in the first place.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Is there a valid point to this thread, apart from self gratification of course? This thread is like Dumbo, long waits for something that goes round in circles and ultimately delivers nothing.

No opinions will be changed, and as demonstrated entrenched attitudes will simply be regurgitated ad-nausseum in the vain hope of bludgeoning the reader into submission or a boredom induced coma.

IMHO of course

 

[Monty]

Is there a valid point to this thread, apart from self gratification of course? This thread is like Dumbo, long waits for something that goes round in circles and ultimately delivers nothing.

No opinions will be changed, and as demonstrated entrenched attitudes will simply be regurgitated ad-nausseum in the vain hope of bludgeoning the reader into submission or a boredom induced coma.

IMHO of course

Sorry!



:lookaroun




[The Canadian nature is to apologize... :shrug:]






:lol:

 

[epcotWSC]

In the 55 pages of this thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic anymore. I think that the mods should close this, but what do I know?

 

[EpcotServo]

These folks just don't seem to get the concept that the "storyline" on a Disney attraction only works if it's apparent to the guests. The story they keep falling back on is this whole thing about the yeti being elusive and therefore that's why you only see it for half a second, yada yada yada. They don't get that attractions like BTMRR and Splash Mt are soooo much better at getting the story and theming across.

And the guests DON'T know what's going on again, huh?


ONCE AGAIN, Mr. Hard Facts presents Conjuncture, Hearsay, and Innuendo to make it seem like you're above the whole world's simple little viewpoints and you're the guiding light of reason casting the golden glow of your rightness down to us poor, simple, misunderstood heathens.

If your opinion isn't that of "Everest is Dissapointing" you either are covering it up with lies, or you don't understand anything.

In fact, I was thinking about this today and it occured to me that following their logic, they must surely think that Dueling Dragons at IOA has a far better storyline than EE. I mean, think about it... It's got one of the most elaborate queues of any attraction (certainly the best queue for any coaster that's ever been built). And throughout the queue line, they are immersing you in the storyline through narration and visuals. The main thing that sets DD apart from EE is that it also happens to be a kick a$$ coaster.

I'm sure there are many people who feel that way, was there some kind of person arguing that Dueling Dragons is better than Expedition Everest?

I know tons of people who love the ride, I don't agree with it, but I wouldn't persecute a person who said Dueling Dragons is better than Expedition Everest. The only one here who's been persecuting people on how incorrect their opinions on is you Sir.

You've not only misquoted the actual meaning of Occam's Razor, but you also happened to misquote the often mis-quoted meaning of the principle (which you, no doubt, got from watching the movie "Contact" rather than actually having any true understanding of what Occam's Razor actually is). The funny thing is that Occam's Razor (if you truly understand it as opposed to just using it because you heard it in a movie once and thought it would make you sound intelligent) actually supports what I was trying to say. "Contact", while being an excellent movie based on an even better book, misquoted Occam's Razor. In the movie, they refer to it repeatedly and say that it means, "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the right one." Sounds eloquent and all, but how many times in life have you actually found that to be true? Probably not too often, if ever at all. That's because, once again, that's not what Occam's Razor is...not by a long shot.

The basis for Occam's Razor has absolutely nothing to do with how simple or complex something is. What it means is that explanations are often incorrect if they are bogged down by data and other information that has nothing to do with whatever explanation is trying to be reached. Sound familiar? If it does, then that's because that's pretty much what I was telling you in my last post when I told you about data collection and analysis, and how you can't make assumptions based on just one or two factors. Occam's Razor adamently is against assumptions. Which, again, is what I was telling you.

So maybe the next time you want to quote some intelligent-sounding principle in order to prove your point, I recommend you do two things. First, get the quote right (and actually UNDERSTAND what it is you're quoting). And second, maybe you shouldn't use it against someone who is clearly more familiar with the meaning of the term than you are.

Nice try though. :hammer:

PS: Feel free to look up Occam's Razor if you think I don't know what I'm talking about.

Once again attacking my intelligence, eh?

Well I'll tell you this, I am not that smart, you're right on that. But to continually insult MY ideas from your "Numbers-running-Data-Authority" thing, well. Even to a "dumb" guy like, that's pretty cold.

I don't take back a thing I said, even after looking it up.

(And I have to thank you MontyBoy, for pointing me towards Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit, great read, great guy. I know some people who should read this. http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/baloney.html )


And for your information, I haven't seen Contact in years. Didn't even remember that was in there. (Still can't recall it.) Closest I got was that bit where they made fun of it in the MST3K Blockbuster Review.
:lol:

Nice try though.
:hammer:

 

[EpcotServo]

No opinions will be changed, and as demonstrated entrenched attitudes will simply be regurgitated ad-nausseum in the vain hope of bludgeoning the reader into submission or a boredom induced coma.

Coma Induced as well, my Friend.
:lol:

 

[Montyboy]

In the 55 pages of this thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic anymore. I think that the mods should close this, but what do I know?

Don’t think of it as thread drift. Think of it as thread evolution.

Clearly, Agent86 is a chore to deal with, but trying to ascertain what makes an attraction a success is worth discussing.

I guess a good analogy would be movie making. You can tell that “Iron Man” was produced to be a big Summer blockbuster and “Million Dollar Baby” was made as a great movie that fewer would enjoy [a lot].
As for Expedition Everest, the roller coaster and Yeti (Iron Man) seem to work for most people. The back story (Million Dollar Baby) might be too subtle, but necessary for a Disney fan. So EE is not high art, but it works for most people.

So maybe the analogy wasn’t so good, I got bored with it myself half-way through.

 

[jt04]

Is there a valid point to this thread, apart from self gratification of course? This thread is like Dumbo, long waits for something that goes round in circles and ultimately delivers nothing.

No opinions will be changed, and as demonstrated entrenched attitudes will simply be regurgitated ad-nausseum in the vain hope of bludgeoning the reader into submission or a boredom induced coma.

IMHO of course

In the 55 pages of this thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic anymore. I think that the mods should close this, but what do I know?

This is the latest home of the disenfrancised Adventurer's Club fanboys and fangirls. Hence the never ending venting at all things Disney.


What the heck were they serving in those drinks anyway??????

I agree though, if ever a thread was crying out, "close me", this is it.

 

[unkadug]

I agree though, if ever a thread was crying out, "close me", this is it.

Better to keep the doom and gloom confined to a small area.

 

[WDW1974]

Exactly. It's funny you should mention DD as i was thinking about using it as an example.

Part of my point is that if people are paying the kind of prices WDW is asking they probably aren't interested in just reading some interpretive panels, viewing some props and using their imagination to make up for the budget cuts and poor project management in the development of the park's signature attraction. That's why most don't bother to read what's in the queue, they get on Everest and they like it for what it is; a nice calm coaster that the family can enjoy together. Because there is only one other coaster in AK they eat Everest up.

This is likely my last post on EE for a bit because, frankly, I just don't have much more to say ... And I agree, for the most part, with all of the above EXCEPT the idea that EE is DAK's signature attraction. It isn't. KS is and KS is a terrific, high quality, immersive Disney adventure in the best sense of the words. I guess you can call it DAK's signature thrill ride ... and I could see why some people unfamiliar with the park might find it to be the 'big deal' at DAK due to Disney marketing it to death.

But whether people take in the detail or not, I'm certainly glad it's there. Just like I'm glad the props are in the BTMRR queue ... or all of the details in the Hollywood Tower Hotel or in countless other locales at WDW. They are the details that set Disney apart.

Again, I think many people miss out on most of them as they just want to 'ride the rides' ... and that's OK. I'm just glad they are there.

I don't feel EE succeeds as well as some of the other bigtime Disney attractions, but it at least tries to ... comparing it to DD you have a nice (albeit a bit overrated) queue and then a kewl coaster that looks like it could be located at any park USA. Then you have something like the Matterhorn at DL, which has no real queue, little backstory and theming, but oodles of history and nostalgia ... and you have something like California Screamin ... a fun family coaster that looks like a coaster at any park USA and has a plain queue that screams out SIX FLAGS.

I think people enjoy all three rides, I know I do ... but I feel EE is closer to 'total package' of all the elements needed. No, it isn't great. But compared to every other attraction opened at WDW in the past decade, in comes closest to being so.

No doubt they enjoy it and scream and laugh as they exit but so do riders of Dueling Dragons. Very few ever come off and say, "OMG did you see that amazing AA figure...I've never seen a shadow projector of that magnitude ever!!!" Of course they shouldn't be saying that, they should be saying things like, "that was so much more than a coaster. I truly felt as though we were being hunted by that monster. It actually seemed as though we were in danger and the fear wasn't just from the G-forces." That would be good storytelling and themeing.

I don't know if I'd quite put it that way. I don't see guests acting that way after riding much of anything ... although the reactions at KS can truly be amazing because every ride is different and the animals aren't totally controllable, even with food laced with valium :animwink:

I wouldn't expect people to get off EE acting like they had just been stalked by the yeti through the Himalayas ... now, maybe that would be the perfect attraction. I'm just not sure how you'd get that reaction.

Using our imagination is great when we are at home and haven't paid thousands of dollars to be entertained. You don't have to use your imagination to believe you are in the Himalayas, that part is done pretty well, but you do have to use your imagination if you are to suspend disbelief and buy into the story of the Yeti is "real" and that during our journey we are actually coming into contact with this beast. You don't need to do that in the Haunted Mansion or 20K in Tokyo or Tower of Terror.

I dunno ... to play's devil's advocate:fork: here ... I'd say you have to just totally suspend disbelief to buy into just about anything in a theme park if you aren't a young child or drunk ... I'd just say it's easier to buy in with Mansion or ToT than it is with EE, so maybe by those metrics it isn't as successful.

But there's way too much at WDW I could, can and am critical of to focus too much energy on EE.

I'd just like to see it working the way it was intended ... and then if they could fix a few of the small glaring weaknesses, I'd like that.

 

[epcotWSC]

People go on Everest, Mission Space, Space Mountain, Big Thunder Railroad, Tower of Terror, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster mainly for the thrills. Sure the details of the queues and the rides themselves are something that enhance the experience, but people just want to have fun. That's what most people go on those rides for.

To me, the "Disney" rides require the most theming to make them successful. Peter Pan's flight? Who would go on that if it wasn't Peter Pan. Who would go to Winnie the Pooh, if it wasn't Pooh. It's a Small World? Not exciting, but the theme makes it enjoyable (although the song makes you want to kick someone in the face after hearing it for 13:30 straight). POTC, same idea. I could go on all day.

Name any non-thrill ride, and it's purely about the theming. The thrill rides? Most people I think could care less. They're on it for the thrill and excitement. I think people make way too big a deal about theming for these rides.

This is why I don't see why people make such a huge deal about every little thing with Everest. It's a fun & exciting ride. I enjoy it, and most other people do too. That's why people run right to that ride when they go to Animal Kingdom.

Sure if it was a bland ride, there'd be nothing "cool" about it. However, as I said, the thrill rides, they go by so quickly and you're more focusing on the speed and excitment, that the theming doesn't really matter... at least not to me.

To me space mountain is as bland as can be. I don't see what's special about the queue, just looks like space. Just blackness with white dots and a corridor. Then you get on the final line and you just stand there, get on your rocket ship and go. You can see everything around you pretty much on the ride. However, I love it because it's just really really fun.

 

[WDW1974]

Just when you think sanity has been restored, someone brings up the Anti-Walt (aka. Jay Rasulo). :fork: :lookaroun :animwink:

He's just a little exec weasel with a huge salary and larger ego. Disney survived before him and will be fine after him (although someone will have a big mess to clean up ... Wing Chao, perhaps?)

Since I tend to be away for days at a time instead of what used to be my near-daily visits, it's interesting to read 8-10 pages at a time and watch the flow of the posts.

There's a flow? How did I miss that?

Everything I've read about TDL and TDS (I hate the amalgamation of two or more parks into one 'Resort' moniker.... thanks Rasulo :hurl is that they indeed ARE run the way America Disney theme parks used to be run. Top notch, high quality, worth the price of admission three times over. WDW, IMHO, has allowed itself (or been forced thru management bungling) to degrade to the point where competition has or will overtake it in terms of investment and original, well-themed attractions (Dueling Dragons was Disney-quality in its theming). They are going to start setting the standard, not Disney. If Disney feels that it's perfectly acceptable to follow trends instead of setting them, then they are going to lose a lot of guests. It's up to them to change things back in their favor by actually feeding the cow instead of milking it for all it's worth.

Well, DD was developed by some people who did early conceptual work on DAK before being laid off from Disney. But while it sets the stage with a great queue, in essence it's just a kewl coaster in the end. One of my favorites in any Florida park.

But as for setting the standard well, some would say Uni has done that of late. A lot of Disney fanboys take issue, but Spiderman really raised the bar when IOA opened and Disney did nothing to raise the ante really. And Men in Black and Mummy both greatly improved upon similar concepts (Buzz Lightyear and RnRC) at WDW.

Uni's new coaster and the whole Harry Potter land at IOA have the potential to take things to an even higher level.

But at least Disney is going to be adding gates to Space Mountain ... and redoing HoP for the first complete time since 1971 ... and who can't be excited about Idol opening?

Disney has really been a follower in the Orlando market for almost two decades now. Even great things like DAK were created in response to what the competition was doing ... not to raise its own bar even higher.

I also agree with the analogy used a little ways back. The posters here who, in essence, sound the warning sirens are like a tsunami detection system - They are trying to alert people to what's going on before it's too late. The reason some of us are so "negative" is that we care too much, we love the place so much that we don't want to see it become a shell of its former self. We can see what a theme park can be like, but we either have to look into the Wayback Machine or look overseas to see it, unfortunately.

I was fortunate enough to have parents that brought me there a number of times while growing up. I have history there. I have seen what they are capable of, or at least were capable of. I've been taking my kids there even more often than I went, because I still love the place, and they enjoy it as well. I want them to be able to visit a park that they can be proud to visit and want to continue to visit, not just have memories of what the place used to be like. Disney can do a HELL of a lot better than what they are currently foisting on the public as "their best efforts". They simply are choosing not to because profits are the only thing that matters anymore, not improving the guest experience to keep them coming back (the whole 'feeding the cow' analogy I used earlier). If they keep milking the cow without feeding it (and that goes for DVC, too - Are you listening, Jim Lewis??? ), eventually the cow dies and you're left with nothing. How will they prop up many of their other less successful ventures without the theme parks profits? And if theme parks tumble, you can bet other parts will follow.

Feeding the cow? I've often used the anaology of milking the cow until the udders bleed ... that's what I think WDW has done, especially with MK for years now. It's all built off marketing prior reputation with very little new substance being added and certainly nothing that wows you ... a new pyro show or two is nice, but it isn't a major attraction ... rehabs are terrific, but that's what we were conditioned to expect from Disney.

You're talking about cows, so I'll ask ... where's the beef?

 

[WDW1974]

Thank you for getting this thread back on topic after the meaningless bickering about whether or not people like E:E. In subjective topics like this, everybody's opinion is equally valid for himself.

Agreed. ... I also don't think EE is that interesting myself, but would NEVER tell people they shouldn't talk/debate/discuss it as long as they please!

But like you've pointed out, the Slash/Burn that WDW1974 has brought up is not subjective. We're talking about quantifiable business results here, not nitpicking whether or not we like a new napkin design. WDW holds personal nostalgic, business, and entertainment value for me, and I enjoy being there more than any other Disney park because it's practically where I grew up. That's why I hate seeing Rasulo and his clueless, spineless minions who don't even understand their own product take so much away from WDW (and DL, for that matter).

And people reading this better not try to blame the economy. Cuts were made long before the recession; this is just an easy scapegoat for bad management. Remember, it took a negative news story—"This Old Park"—to finally start refurbishing the MK. Now Disney is using the "Refurbishment, not Additions" argument to justify leaving the MK as-is, but the maintenance should have been done for years in the first place.

Exactly. These cutbacks have been part and parcel of WDW's business model since the mid to late 1990s. Over a decade. In great times, terrible times and all times in between. It's all been about cutting the magic, lowering the quality (and the bar), conditioning guests to accept less as 'the new normal' and -- NATURALLY! -- raise prices early and often.

This is a time when WDW should be investing and reinvesting in Florida, and they're doing the exact opposite. It's bad for guests, fans, CMs, shareholders and even institutional investors (in the long run) ... diminishing great brands doesn't do anything but hasten their loss of relevance with the majority of consumers.

 

[WDW1974]

In the 55 pages of this thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic anymore. I think that the mods should close this, but what do I know?

Exactly?

What do you know? Why would you suggest such a thing?

When people are having a great wide-ranging discussion about WDW and how it is run there can be no rational, intelligent motivation for closing it accept to silence certain opinions. It's also dumb as it drives traffic to the site and promotes other threads/discussions too.

I doubt that's something Steve and the other powers here really want to do.

My advice if you don't like the thread or topic drift though is to simply not read here or post.

It's like complaining about what's on TV without picking up the remote.

 

[lightboy]

Thoroughly enjoying these posts.

I'm 100% pro-Disney here...but you all should listen to Mr. 1974. He's got it figured out, and has explained it quite well. I do realize that may take many of you exiting your denial...but think outside the box.

The marketing of WDW as a whole is based on past legacy. Even many commercials make consumers ask, "What will YOU remember?". The Disney product STILL is magical...no question. But can't each one of you remember when it was MORE magical?

Can I blame them? Currently, no. But I do think especially watching the number of these types of threads popping up A LOT more often than they used to...the guests of Walt Disney World know they are starting to get ripped off.

I'd love for one person to honestly post right after this...that they feel that $70+ is a fair value for the Orlando theme parks. The prices ARE going up. The product is not. The product IS dropping, whether or not anyone wishes to admit it. Many other customers pump this profit back into their product. Disney however, rides the legacy, and pockets the change.

When the legacy starts to become diminished...they will once again put in a teaser attraction to find something to hype up. Then they'll sit back again.

That is...until guests really start realizing that the value isn't there. And that the parks, WHILE STILL MAGICAL, aren't quite what they remembered as a child.
***

There's just a few less special effects in that ride or that show.

There's just a little less magic in their cast members.

There's just a few more buildings that haven't been kept up and painted like they used to.

There's just a generic steak in place of prime rib.

There's just no new real Disney experience attractions like they used to be creative with.

There's just a few less days a week that feature thrilling night time spectacular shows.

There's just a smaller portion of fries with that $10 burger meal.

There's those packaged food items, where everything used to be prepared in house and fresh.

There's a few less characters than the last time you came.

There's no more Diamond Horseshoe Revue as there was years ago.

There's just a cheesy kids story-line show in place of an amazing Poly Luau with many more performers years ago.

There's more 3D and OmniMover attractions in place of attractions that used to bring the newest and best creativity and technology into the world of a Disney Theme Park.

***
Please take all of these EXAMPLES that I've seen people complaining about recently.

Sure each one of them is insignificant. But added together...they reduce the value of that ticket price that keeps going up.

That is the legacy that people will start to have to realize before Disney changes pace and pumps more assets into their theme parks.

 

[artvandelay]

There's those packaged food items, where everything used to be prepared in house and fresh.

...Like getting rid of the bread soup bowls at the Columbia Harvest House. I know it's a small thing, but it was a little thing my wife looked forward to having at MK.

 

[jt04]

Thoroughly enjoying these posts.

I'm 100% pro-Disney here...but you all should listen to Mr. 1974. He's got it figured out, and has explained it quite well. I do realize that may take many of you exiting your denial...but think outside the box.

The marketing of WDW as a whole is based on past legacy. Even many commercials make consumers ask, "What will YOU remember?". The Disney product STILL is magical...no question. But can't each one of you remember when it was MORE magical?

Can I blame them? Currently, no. But I do think especially watching the number of these types of threads popping up A LOT more often than they used to...the guests of Walt Disney World know they are starting to get ripped off.

I'd love for one person to honestly post right after this...that they feel that $70+ is a fair value for the Orlando theme parks. The prices ARE going up. The product is not. The product IS dropping, whether or not anyone wishes to admit it. Many other customers pump this profit back into their product. Disney however, rides the legacy, and pockets the change.

When the legacy starts to become diminished...they will once again put in a teaser attraction to find something to hype up. Then they'll sit back again.

That is...until guests really start realizing that the value isn't there. And that the parks, WHILE STILL MAGICAL, aren't quite what they remembered as a child.
***

There's just a few less special effects in that ride or that show.

There's just a little less magic in their cast members.

There's just a few more buildings that haven't been kept up and painted like they used to.

There's just a generic steak in place of prime rib.

There's just no new real Disney experience attractions like they used to be creative with.

There's just a few less days a week that feature thrilling night time spectacular shows.

There's just a smaller portion of fries with that $10 burger meal.

There's those packaged food items, where everything used to be prepared in house and fresh.

There's a few less characters than the last time you came.

There's no more Diamond Horseshoe Revue as there was years ago.

There's just a cheesy kids story-line show in place of an amazing Poly Luau with many more performers years ago.

There's more 3D and OmniMover attractions in place of attractions that used to bring the newest and best creativity and technology into the world of a Disney Theme Park.

***
Please take all of these EXAMPLES that I've seen people complaining about recently.

Sure each one of them is insignificant. But added together...they reduce the value of that ticket price that keeps going up.

That is the legacy that people will start to have to realize before Disney changes pace and pumps more assets into their theme parks.

I'll tell you why I am not worried.

First. Disney's competitors are not stupid. They can see as well as anyone that Disney is coasting along in many respects at WDW. I believe Disney is just taking a "wait and see" approach. There is a huge market that Disney's competition (and I don't just mean amusement parks) can and will tap into. Uni and SW are doing just that for example.

Second. I have complete convidence in Iger. The man is no fool and he did not get where he is by not being someone who is motivated by more than the prestige (and dollars) the job brings. He got the job because he "gets it". Probably more than anyone else at TWDC.

Third. The market works everytime...........if it is allowed to.:lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

...Like getting rid of the bread soup bowls at the Columbia Harvest House. I know it's a small thing, but it was a little thing my wife looked forward to having at MK.

Yeah ... that's a great example.

Because, after all, it's just a 'little' thing ... there must be something wrong with you for even pointing it out, right?

Uhm ... no. Because if you keep cutting these things, you eventually have a product that is total crap and an insult to Walt Disney and all the amazing men and women that brought WDW to reality.

That's the issue ... little things do mean a lot.

 

[jt04]

...Like getting rid of the bread soup bowls at the Columbia Harvest House. I know it's a small thing, but it was a little thing my wife looked forward to having at MK.

Perhaps bread bowls will be available at TWWoHP.



PS- what the heck is a "bread bowl"?