And if companies continue to make poor decisions like that (and Im not saying that paying a CEO millions, billions, or $1 is right or wrong) they will cease to be competative.
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More Disney Job Cuts
- Thread starter dylan0511
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And if companies continue to make poor decisions like that (and Im not saying that paying a CEO millions, billions, or $1 is right or wrong) they will cease to be competative.
sublimesting
Well-Known Member
OK, let me offer another point of view as to how WDW has declined.
Now we have Tom Sawyer Island area. To a first time visitor it is in pretty good shape and fun for kids. BUT, in the 80's there was a teeter totter rock and merry go round rock play area, 2 snack bars, Mike Fink Keel boats, a cabin with flames coming through the roof. Maybe, overall those missing items don't have a major detrimental impact on the area BUT it could have been and was so much more.
Look, Walt Disney was a guy who, while producing Pinocchio got half way done after a year of work and spending $500,000 and said "Not good enough, start over." Can you conceive of any circumstance where Disney Co. would do that today !?!
The way Disney is run now would have Walt firing people left and right and starting over.
HOWEVER, I do think sometimes people are a bit harsh as it does look nice overall and yes Peter Pan is looking shabby, 20K was removed and not replaced, Diamond Horseshoe was closed, The HM gift shop that actually used to exist is gone and all the shops on Main Street are the same as oppossed to variety etc. BUT they did update the HM wonderfully, updated Pirates, revamped Tomorrowland to make it one of the most eye-catching areas of MK, etc.
Now we have Tom Sawyer Island area. To a first time visitor it is in pretty good shape and fun for kids. BUT, in the 80's there was a teeter totter rock and merry go round rock play area, 2 snack bars, Mike Fink Keel boats, a cabin with flames coming through the roof. Maybe, overall those missing items don't have a major detrimental impact on the area BUT it could have been and was so much more.
Look, Walt Disney was a guy who, while producing Pinocchio got half way done after a year of work and spending $500,000 and said "Not good enough, start over." Can you conceive of any circumstance where Disney Co. would do that today !?!
The way Disney is run now would have Walt firing people left and right and starting over.
HOWEVER, I do think sometimes people are a bit harsh as it does look nice overall and yes Peter Pan is looking shabby, 20K was removed and not replaced, Diamond Horseshoe was closed, The HM gift shop that actually used to exist is gone and all the shops on Main Street are the same as oppossed to variety etc. BUT they did update the HM wonderfully, updated Pirates, revamped Tomorrowland to make it one of the most eye-catching areas of MK, etc.
SirGoofy
Member
Oh, I love the Haunted Mansion rehab. I honestly can't say enough good things about it. It pretty much vaulted the HM to my favorite attraction spot.
The Pirates "update"....eh not so much. The cosmetics may be pretty good(Jack looks amazing), but the ride is still in terrible shape mechanically.
And as for Tomorrowland, you are right, that place looks spectacular at night. Unfortunately SGE is terrible, and Buzz and TTA need a lot of TLC. I just pray TTA gets it during the refurb.
Jim L Clifton
Member
Little things I miss &I've been going to Disney for a "long time"!i MISS CM'S....who really have the SPARK....instead ,I've heard a # disussing how BAD things are!Iunderstand...but....people go because they want to forget...or enjoy!Bathrooms are NOT up to par,it's the little things that get me...remember the HAT SHOP....as you head thru Frontierland?Been closed for a few yrs.The merchandising ideas in Frontierland...SUCK!! I miss the Diamond Horseshoe Review.
Jim
Jim
calicommando
Active Member
I agree. It's always been the little things that stuck in our minds too. The heavy attention to detail. Instead, I'm seeing so many things, that any other company would take care of, slipping through the cracks at Disney. For example: I have parked in the AAA diamond parking lot at Epcot the past few days. I noticed a cover had come off of a water meter or something next to the path from the CM parking. It's still that way even though every CM walks by it every day. That certainly wouldn't have happened before.
SirGoofy
Member
Just curious...where are you parking? Because Epcot's CM parking is backstage, no where near the entrance.:shrug:
calicommando
Active Member
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's CM parking. There are always CM's coming back and forth through there carrying their lunch boxes and things. I've been parking straight back from the kennel.
At any rate, the point is there is a large number of CM's passing it all day.
I think that is because Walt was one of the few people that have such a keen sense of how his work would be viewed years down the line that he could make that type of decision. If you look at how much money Pinocchio has made the WDC over the years, it eclipses that $500k many times over. The problem today is, if the company cant see a project returning millions in profit in one or two years, they are very reluctant to start the project, much less stop during mid stream and correct a problem.
SirGoofy
Member
Oh, I believe you...I'm just trying to figure out who parks over there.:lol:
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
Thanks SirGoofy and Lee. I know to many it seems like we overreact to the diminishing standards that are so obvious these days but the more we let each contravention stand unchallenged the further we'll see WDW quality become just an ideology of the past.
On my visit yesterday my business partner and i decided to check out the Indy Stunt Show since we hadn't seen it in many years. In that one show alone we noticed at least 3 effects that weren't working, 2 audio cues that were missed and the finale took place with no music. It was embarrassing to watch them run from the ring of fire with almost dead silence. I realize mistakes occur and nobody is perfect, but in years past you would be hard pressed to find just one problem like that, let alone the 5 malfunctions that we caught in that show. Just a microcosm of the overall state of WDW today.
We exited the theater toward Holloywood and Dine and noticed the faded Maroon Studios billboard and the horrible condition of the 50s Prime Time sign. Then on the way to Toy Story Midway Mania a huge outdoor lighting fixture fell to the ground nearly striking a family. I kid you not...the whole thing was comical. So for people to say they don't see anything wrong with the parks today I can't relate at all. It's not like we were purposefully looking for bad things, they were painfully obvious.
We decided to head over to Epcot. We stood in the queue for Test Track because that was another attraction we hadn't bothered to ride for a while. Many of the show elements in the queue were in a terrible state. The "blue" room perforated metal panels had screws missing and many of them were loose. We took note that most of the equipment was way outdated. The ride itself was missing at least 3 show effects that were not working the last time I rode several years ago. We rode Soarin' and discussed the fact that many of the new attractions rely on the cheap industrial look to get by with lower budgets and lower expectations. How common is it to see the cheap perforated metal and sintra aesthetic with almost every new attraction these days? We finished with Spaceship Earth and couldn't believe how bad the descent is. I don't even need to detail our thoughts there and I'm sure anyone that remembers the standards from 15 years back or earlier will understand.
So no I can't at all relate to those that visit and are satisfied with the state of WDW these days. Anyone that says they didn't see anything wrong must have their heads buried in the sand.
calicommando
Active Member
I know. I wasn't offended. :wave:
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
A very dead on articulate explanation of why no, WDW isn't nearly as good as it was 15 years ago.
I'm not sure whether it will get people to think more critically or not. Some people don't know any better. Others haven't the perspective. Others just don't care even if they do notice something ... like acknowledging it is stating something that goes against their religion (and yes, I have found that for many Disney is like a religion).
I've been going through a lot of Disney stuff I have wound up with over decades and last night I found one of the guidebooks from my second visit in 1975 as well as a 1972 CM Welcome Guidebook ... looking at those items I couldn't help but think to myself that many of the Internet fans are utterly clueless as to what WDW was and what it has become.
Just like Disney conditioned folks like myself (and you) to EXPECT an incredibly high quality immersive themed entertainment experience/vacation, they have spent well over a decade doing the exact opposite and conditioning guests to ACCEPT a far lower quality product.
Looking at the pictures in that guidebook and seeing how WDW was when it wasn't all Disney cartoon characters all the time would wake people up to the WalMarting that has taken place. It was so much more sophisticated a product than what is put out now.
And to see how full the MK's 'lands' were ... there used to be 10 shops with unique merchandise in Adventureland, for example. But now you have two and a giant flea market set up in what was a beautiful quiet plaza after exiting PoC.
To read ________ Nunis's comments to CMs about the importance of their jobs and the Disney Legacy and how important they were as people while Iger, Staggs and Rasulo play slash and burn with people's lives to try (likely in vain) to impress Wall Street. ... It's just very sad.
Sure, WDW is a fun place.
It's still worth visiting depending on one's financial circumstances.
But to claim it is anything close to what it once was is just BS. Plain and simple. You eloquently wrote above about not trying to tell people they shouldn't go or enjoy themselves and I agree ... but as Judge Judy would say 'Don't pi$$ on my head and tell me it's raining.'
~She can pound my gavel any day! Oops, did I say that?~
CBOMB
Active Member
Personally, I think it's because the whole world is out to get you!I like how Lee posts the same exact thing I have been, and no one calls him out, I get the hounds released on me.
Nothing against you, Lee. Just an observation.
SirGoofy
Member
Personally, I think it's because the whole world is out to get you!
I knew it! And they all said I was crazy!
:lookaroun:lol:
jt04
Well-Known Member
Yep, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Epcot, DHS, Animal Kingdom, AK resorts, DTD, DVC, Grand Floridian, Coronado Springs, Typhoon Lagoon, Port Orleans, Blizzard Beach, WWoS, Wilderness Lodge, Fantasmic, etc etc etc were all better in 1975
I suspect part of the problems you speak of are caused by the shear number of people that go to WDW. Large crowds do effect the experience in a less than magical way.
Second, when you employ that many people, as opposed to 1975, quality is much harder to maintain. Pay raises alone won't fix that problem.
So in a sense WDW is a victim of it's own success. And I'm not trying to be provocative but you are not the same person you were in 1975 and I submit that might be causing some of your change in perspective. I know I am not as captivated by the magic in the same way I was when I was a child as I can more easily see through the "magic". That is just life.
But all in all, I give WDW an A- , 4 and a half stars out of 5, and on a scale of 1 to 10, a magical 9.5 :sohappy:
hokielutz
Well-Known Member
Did you ever consider that maybe some of the business & merchandising models that were employed in 1975, may not work so well in the decade between 1995-2005?
Perhaps today's consumer does not want 10 different shops that all sell unique items that are only tied to their respective lands.
CBOMB
Active Member
Do you really believe that your typical WDW guest wants to walk into every shop at the Magic Kingdom, and want them to be the same?
CBOMB
Active Member
yankspy
Well-Known Member
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. I seem to remember reading some where ("Realityland" maybe)that some of those unique shops sold very little. However, I do like the idea of walking into frontierland and not seeing a Stitch plush as well.