More Disney Job Cuts

[whylightbulb]

Yep, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Epcot, DHS, Animal Kingdom, AK resorts, DTD, DVC, Grand Floridian, Coronado Springs, Typhoon Lagoon, Port Orleans, Blizzard Beach, WWoS, Wilderness Lodge, Fantasmic, etc etc etc were all better in 1975

I suspect part of the problems you speak of are caused by the shear number of people that go to WDW. Large crowds do effect the experience in a less than magical way.

Second, when you employ that many people, as opposed to 1975, quality is much harder to maintain. Pay raises alone won't fix that problem.

So in a sense WDW is a victim of it's own success. And I'm not trying to be provocative but you are not the same person you were in 1975 and I submit that might be causing some of your change in perspective. I know I am not as captivated by the magic in the same way I was when I was a child as I can more easily see through the "magic". That is just life.

But all in all, I give WDW an A- , 4 and a half stars out of 5, and on a scale of 1 to 10, a magical 9.5 :sohappy:

Okay, I know you are kidding about the 1975 comment but there is quite a bit of truth to what you said regardless. Epcot for example was more magical back in the 80s. Back when we had full-scale dark rides with rich, elaborate sets instead of today's cookie-cutter, low grade industrial warehouse space with a ride inside like Test Track or the new Journey into Anti-Imagination ride. Back when a decent storyline and dynamic show sets were essential, as with Horizons, instead of a "spin and puke" simulator with a storyline that comes across as if it were a last minute addition. Yes things were more "magical" back then.

With respect to the number of visitors causing the problems we complain about, I would simply respond with a nod toward the east to a place known as Tokyo Disney. I would also like to point out that crowds in 1975 were sometimes worse than they are now. One of the main differences though is that we didn't have the annoyance of Fastpass to deal with. Everyone waited in the same line and it was much more organized. Not to get into the horrors of Fastpass here but let's just say I'm not a big fan.

The number of employees has nothing to do with what we are referring to. An increase in attendance due to expansion would of course result in an increased number of employees. But I would say the downsized "Disney Traditions" might have something to do with some of the poor quality Cast Members. There are still some wonderful and dedicated Cast Members today however, but they are many times hindered from doing their job due to the current management ineptitude.

There is no doubt that we see things differently as we grow older. But this has very little to do with our disappointment in comparing today's WDW to that of the past. There are many quantifiable and specific markers we could point to that don't require any emotion or perspective to come to the same conclusion we have come to. I have pointed some of them out before, like the light bulb matrix that was done away with and WDI show quality that used to be a regular part of the operations budgets. So no, I don't agree that our age has much to do with our complaints other than having the advantage of knowing first hand what Disney could be. Of course that is partially possible for anyone that has the opportunity to visit Tokyo Disney.

 

[jt04]

^ It's not the number of employees , it is the quality.

I agree about fastpass. It should be more limited and only reward the earliest park visitors that day.

 

[calicommando]

You don't even have to go back all the way to 1975. My wife and I have been having conversations all week about how things have gotten noticeably worse in the last 5 years since we have started coming to WDW regularly again. Year after year, things seem to be getting worse.

 

[WDW1974]

Yep, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Epcot, DHS, Animal Kingdom, AK resorts, DTD, DVC, Grand Floridian, Coronado Springs, Typhoon Lagoon, Port Orleans, Blizzard Beach, WWoS, Wilderness Lodge, Fantasmic, etc etc etc were all better in 1975

OK, JT, I'm just gonna chalk the above up as a smarta$$ comment.
Bigger isn't better if you drop quality across the board. I'd rather have a Nordstrom experience in terms of quality than a Sawgrass Mills one (that's a huge outlet mall in SoFLA, btw). Sure it offers more ... but the quality isn't the same.

I suspect part of the problems you speak of are caused by the shear number of people that go to WDW. Large crowds do effect the experience in a less than magical way.

Second, when you employ that many people, as opposed to 1975, quality is much harder to maintain. Pay raises alone won't fix that problem.

Harder to maintain? Yeah. Would pay raises help? Sure. Unless you think the pool of people making $8 an hour is equal to the pool making $16 an hour etc ... Would it fix things? No.

But the problem isn't a cast problem. It's a company mindset that we'll keep marketing ourselves as a premium 'brand' and we'll keep putting out the PR that makes it sound like it's 1989 ... but we won't even pay lip service to the ideals that made us what we are.

So in a sense WDW is a victim of it's own success. And I'm not trying to be provocative but you are not the same person you were in 1975 and I submit that might be causing some of your change in perspective. I know I am not as captivated by the magic in the same way I was when I was a child as I can more easily see through the "magic". That is just life.

No. I am not the same person I was in 1975. But that doesn't change that fact the MK is a simpler, dumber, dirtier, less maintained, less special place than it was back then.

I am just as captivated by Disney's magic as I was when I was a child ... when they deliver it.

I was as wide-eyed as could be last year when I got to visit the newest MK of them all. It didn't prevent me from seeing its shortcomings, though.

Just like when I first visited DLP, I immediately saw major upkeep issues ...

But all in all, I give WDW an A- , 4 and a half stars out of 5, and on a scale of 1 to 10, a magical 9.5 :sohappy:

If I were to grade the MK of 2009 based on countless visits JUST to that park since 1974 (leaving all other WDW parks and all other Disney parks out of it), I'd give the MK a C+ or about a 6 on a 1-10 scale.

~That Old Gal Just Ain't What She Used To Be~

 

[WDW1974]

Did you ever consider that maybe some of the business & merchandising models that were employed in 1975, may not work so well in the decade between 1995-2005?

Perhaps today's consumer does not want 10 different shops that all sell unique items that are only tied to their respective lands.

Not to sound like I am dismissing this ... even if I kinda am ... but this is what I term the WalMart argument.

The idea that people largely want to buy only crap (or slightly better) at the lowest possible price.

That's not true or everyone would only shop at WalMart, eat at Taco Bell, drive Chevys, and still have shrines to 'W' in their garages.

People do like better things and quality and variety. Disney is doing what is simple and what they believe (wrongly) is the only way to make money these days.

~Crap is Crap, Even if is Coated In Pixie Dust!~

 

[WDW1974]

A guy can't even ask for a couple of autographs here without having his post disappear.

I have told you repeatedly to stop stalking me. I don't give autographs!!!

~Will You Sign This?~

 

[chaggy102]

I have told you repeatedly to stop stalking me. I don't give autographs!!!

~Will You Sign This?~

You don't anymore....*quickly puts his WDW1974 autograph on Ebay*

 

[jt04]

You don't even have to go back all the way to 1975. My wife and I have been having conversations all week about how things have gotten noticeably worse in the last 5 years since we have started coming to WDW regularly again. Year after year, things seem to be getting worse.

And year after year the crowds get bigger. I usually am a contrarian but in this case I think the numbers speak for themselves.



I love the new TSMM and AIE

 

[WDW1974]

Perhaps there is a happy medium here. I seem to remember reading some where ("Realityland" maybe)that some of those unique shops sold very little. However, I do like the idea of walking into frontierland and not seeing a Stitch plush as well.

Some didn't sell that much, I'm sure.

But that wasn't the point (well, until the consultants came in during the 90s and Disney broke its model and made sure every shop reached certain numbers). They were part of the show. They helped set the mood and immerse you in a place and time.

That's why having antiques and perfume shops in Liberty Square made sense as opposed to a Disney Christmas crap shop that sells the same things that can be bought all over property.

There's nothing that takes you out of a 'story' ... out of the sense of time and place then conflicting images and messages.

Miley Cyrus doesn't belong in Frontierland anymore than Jack Skellington belongs in Tomorrowland or Captain Jack Sparrow belongs in EPCOT.

But Disney's decided the rules don't apply anymore and it's all about selling as much crap to the masses as they can.

I shouldn't complain, though. I used to drop hundreds (many times thousands) of dollars on merchandise at WDW and now I regularly go and spend a week there and buy nothing at all.

~Main Street USA: Outlet Mall Gone Bad!~

 

[WDW1974]

There is no doubt that we see things differently as we grow older. But this has very little to do with our disappointment in comparing today's WDW to that of the past. There are many quantifiable and specific markers we could point to that don't require any emotion or perspective to come to the same conclusion we have come to. I have pointed some of them out before, like the light bulb matrix that was done away with and WDI show quality that used to be a regular part of the operations budgets. So no, I don't agree that our age has much to do with our complaints other than having the advantage of knowing first hand what Disney could be. Of course that is partially possible for anyone that has the opportunity to visit Tokyo Disney.

I'd argue you don't even have to go to Tokyo, or even leave the country to see that firsthand. Although your example is the best and why I am headed to Japan later this year (although also psyched to visit Uni's new Singapore Resort next year too).

But just go to DL ... or DLP ... or yes, even HKDL ... and you'll see in many ways things are done better. And it isn't that WDW has always been lower quality. They've set out to deliberately dumb down the product and lower expectations and if you didn't believe they've largely succeeded before, I am sure after reading Disney fan forums you do now!

~Pins, Plush and Pooh Playgrounds aren't magical!~

 

[jt04]

OK, JT, I'm just gonna chalk the above up as a smarta$$ comment.
Bigger isn't better if you drop quality across the board. I'd rather have a Nordstrom experience in terms of quality than a Sawgrass Mills one (that's a huge outlet mall in SoFLA, btw). Sure it offers more ... but the quality isn't the same.

I suspect part of the problems you speak of are caused by the shear number of people that go to WDW. Large crowds do effect the experience in a less than magical way.



Harder to maintain? Yeah. Would pay raises help? Sure. Unless you think the pool of people making $8 an hour is equal to the pool making $16 an hour etc ... Would it fix things? No.

But the problem isn't a cast problem. It's a company mindset that we'll keep marketing ourselves as a premium 'brand' and we'll keep putting out the PR that makes it sound like it's 1989 ... but we won't even pay lip service to the ideals that made us what we are.



No. I am not the same person I was in 1975. But that doesn't change that fact the MK is a simpler, dumber, dirtier, less maintained, less special place than it was back then.

I am just as captivated by Disney's magic as I was when I was a child ... when they deliver it.

I was as wide-eyed as could be last year when I got to visit the newest MK of them all. It didn't prevent me from seeing its shortcomings, though.

Just like when I first visited DLP, I immediately saw major upkeep issues ...




If I were to grade the MK of 2009 based on countless visits JUST to that park since 1974 (leaving all other WDW parks and all other Disney parks out of it), I'd give the MK a C+ or about a 6 on a 1-10 scale.

~That Old Gal Just Ain't What She Used To Be~

I read what you say and I comprehend it but when I go to the parks I just don't experience the negative emotions you seem to. Anything can be improved but I just don't see the situation in a negative light.

I've experienced the good years and the not so good years at WDW and right now the situation is good. Very good!

 

[calicommando]

And year after year the crowds get bigger. I usually am a contrarian but in this case I think the numbers speak for themselves.



I love the new TSMM and AIE

But it's not going to be good enough for the numbers to just keep getting bigger. Right now, I believe Disney is living on past reputation. Eventually people are going to realize they don't have to spend so much money or travel so far from home to have an experience similar to what they can now find at Disney. I can go to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg (1.5 hours from home) and see a park that is better maintained. No, it's not Disney and that's why we still come, but the gap is closing. If Disney doesn't wake up and start making WDW magic again, I think it will hurt them bad in the long run.

 

[Lee]

My favorite examples:
New Orleans Square at Disneyland used to have two shops you will not see in a Disney park these days:
1- One of a Kind shop. (Antiques and old jewelry)
2- Custom-mixed perfume shop.
Both fit the theme perfectly, and greatly added to the show.

MK's Main St. had a magic shop.

Big money makers? Nope. But they were valuable in other ways.
(HINT to management - Show before efficiency. Basic keys to the kingdom stuff there.)

 

[Hakunamatata]

My favorite examples:
New Orleans Square at Disneyland used to have two shops you will not see in a Disney park these days:
1- One of a Kind shop. (Antiques and old jewelry)
2- Custom-mixed perfume shop.
Both fit the theme perfectly, and greatly added to the show.

MK's Main St. had a magic shop.

Big money makers? Nope. But they were valuable in other ways.
(HINT to management - Show before efficiency. Basic keys to the kingdom stuff there.)

They also had a penny arcade. One of my fondest memories....

 

[yankspy]

Some didn't sell that much, I'm sure.

But that wasn't the point (well, until the consultants came in during the 90s and Disney broke its model and made sure every shop reached certain numbers). They were part of the show. They helped set the mood and immerse you in a place and time.

That's why having antiques and perfume shops in Liberty Square made sense as opposed to a Disney Christmas crap shop that sells the same things that can be bought all over property.

There's nothing that takes you out of a 'story' ... out of the sense of time and place then conflicting images and messages.

Miley Cyrus doesn't belong in Frontierland anymore than Jack Skellington belongs in Tomorrowland or Captain Jack Sparrow belongs in EPCOT.

But Disney's decided the rules don't apply anymore and it's all about selling as much crap to the masses as they can.

I shouldn't complain, though. I used to drop hundreds (many times thousands) of dollars on merchandise at WDW and now I regularly go and spend a week there and buy nothing at all.

~Main Street USA: Outlet Mall Gone Bad!~

See, that's the thing. Surely there is a way to please everyone. If every location absolutely has to turn a profit then find a way to do it without ruining the show. If perfume and antiques did not sell in Liberty Square, why not find something that does sell and fits with the theme?

Even the Christmas shop could fit with the right merchandise. Colonial looking Christmas decor is quite popular with many people. (I sound like Martha Stewart):lol:

 

[SirGoofy]

See, that's the thing. Surely there is a way to please everyone. If every location absolutely has to turn a profit then find a way to do it without ruining the show. If perfume and antiques did not sell in Liberty Square, why not find something that does sell and fits with the theme?

Even the Christmas shop could fit with the right merchandise. Colonial looking Christmas decor is quite popular with many people. (I sound like Martha Stewart):lol:

Of course there is a happy medium. They just aren't interested in finding/implementing it.

They know they can stick any old crap into a shop and people will buy it. While there has been a small improvement in merch the past few months, the '71 line and RetroCot line come to mind, overall it's still too generic overall.

 

[CBOMB]

And year after year the crowds get bigger. I usually am a contrarian but in this case I think the numbers speak for themselves.



I love the new TSMM and AIE

Once agqain I'll point out General Motors. They once had that mindset. I'm sure you don't want Disney to travel down that same path.

But it's not going to be good enough for the numbers to just keep getting bigger. Right now, I believe Disney is living on past reputation. Eventually people are going to realize they don't have to spend so much money or travel so far from home to have an experience similar to what they can now find at Disney. I can go to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg (1.5 hours from home) and see a park that is better maintained. No, it's not Disney and that's why we still come, but the gap is closing. If Disney doesn't wake up and start making WDW magic again, I think it will hurt them bad in the long run.

That is an excellent point made.

 

[DoctorPrius]

I read what you say and I comprehend it but when I go to the parks I just don't experience the negative emotions you seem to. Anything can be improved but I just don't see the situation in a negative light.

I've experienced the good years and the not so good years at WDW and right now the situation is good. Very good!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions....no matter how crazy

There are also people that will tell you they were abducted by aliens and in the case of Glenn Beck, that the government is coming to throw us all into a concentration camp any day now to "silence the masses".

 

[CBOMB]

I have told you repeatedly to stop stalking me. I don't give autographs!!!

~Will You Sign This?~

Mickey didn't give me a hard time. Goofy didn't give me a hard time. Even Donald didn't give me a hard time. Only you. How am I suppose to complete my Disney Character autograph book when you won't sign it. Look I didn't mean to call you a commie, OK. Besides some moderator already wiped it off the planet. Now would you please sign my booK?

 

[calicommando]

To me, it would be nice if the shops, rides, and attractions would return to their former glory, but more importantly is the behavior of the CMs. I have witnessed things on this trip that I never thought I'd hear at WDW. At one point I overheard two CMs talking and one dropped the F-bomb. Later in the trip, my 5yo son was getting stamps on his mask around the World Showcase in Epcot. He walked up to one of the Kidcot stations and there were two CMs sitting there to "help" the kids. They asked him what color tag he wanted for his mask and he, being 5, took a little time to decide. I assure you it was no longer than 5 seconds after they asked him that they very rudely told him he had 5 seconds to make up his mind and began counting down. At that point I walked over to make sure they didn't crush his spirit. There were no other kids around and one of the CMs looked like he had just woken up. He was rubbing his eyes and all. Both looked extremely bored with their job. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. I never would have thought I'd see things like this happening at Disney.