Economy does in Fantasyland

[yankspy]

You better believe it. I'm stongly considering purchasing some.

I have always found it amazing how everyone runs away from Wall Street when they have a sale.:animwink:

So disney has no problem spending millions expanding DVC everywhere to scam guests but when it comes to upgrading/retooling/adding rides they have to put all that on hold? That is such BS and if they keep this up people will get wise and stop coming to the parks.

I am curious as to why DVC is a scam?

I never said nothing had happened.

But not nearly enough positive substanitive additions, expansions and plussing has transpired. And no park is as stale as the MK is.

I haven't been to TDL (headed there in the spring) but I am a regular at DL and DLP and recently hit HKDL for the first time. None of those parks has the stale vibe that the MK has.

I somewhat agree that MK does need some plussing. However, it is, after all, the busiest park in the world according to last years numbers. Does that mean that the majority likes staleness? Perhaps they do, it just sort of strikes me as odd. I am also curious as to what specifically you would like to see them do at MK.

 

[WDW1974]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on Dubailand. I feel very strongly that only 10% of the stuff proposed will actually get built. :lol:

Dubailand is the biggest joke of the early 21st century. Dubailand only exists in internet press releases and slapped together photoshop pictures of theme parks in the desert. It's simply a mirage, and the crashing price of oil isn't going to help this mirage come to life.

You may well be right.

I am not sold at all on the Dubai/UAE mirage.

And I'll not set foot in that country.

 

[jhastings74]

*Disclaimer* I am not a DVC member (although I want to be...)


The only thing that piques my curiosity is that one of the newest DVC's they are trying to promote now (Bay Lake Tower) is RIGHT next to MK. I would think they would WANT to update MK as much as financially possible, if only for it to be a selling-point for BLT.

Does that make sense to anyone else?




....and...............continue...:wave:

 

[WDW1974]

You might/do know more on this, and if you can give me some words of encouragement that would be great on this topic, but I have bean counting friends and it wasn't too promising.

I was told everything was on for both DL and WDW versions to go down early in 2009.

I was also told that there are no plans yet for DLP and TDL (they are trying to sell OLC on the need) but they likely will also see the new version within the next 2-3 years.

I trust my sources, but things do change ... especially these days ...

 

[MousDad]

I was told everything was on for both DL and WDW versions to go down early in 2009.

I'm not trying to make you eat your own words, really. But a couple days ago you said not to expect anything of substance before the 40th, except for Mermaid possibly. Wouldn't ^^^ qualify as something major before the 40th, or were you referring to MK only?

Separate question not directed to you only - what's the word on the street RE: Potterland? How come we never hear rumors of cutbacks, budget problems, etc for Uni? Does it still seem to be living up to its original billing, or has it been so tightly under wraps from the start that nobody knows?

 

[sbkline]

Why should anyone be worried about Universal? :shrug: Universal is not (or at least should not) be any worry for Disney, as they should not be considered competition. Let's compare the two shall we?

Disney: 4 Theme Parks
Universal: 2 Theme Parks

Disney: I can't even count how many resort hotels
Universal: Last I knew, 2 resort hotels

Disney: 2 mini-golf courses, 2 waterparks, DTD, Boardwalk
Universal: CityWalk

Disney: You can spend a whole week there and not have to leave property.
Universal: You could probably spend two days there and that's about it.

I've been to Universal and I enjoyed it. I had planned for us to go on our last trip, but we changed our mind. Hopefully, we will go next time. With that said, Universal and Disney is like apples and oranges. Two totally different categories. People don't come from all over the country to stay for a week at Universal and possibly visit WDW on one of their days. On the other hand, people do come from all over to visit Disney and, while there, may take a day or two to visit Universal. As fun as Universal may be, it just doesn't have enough there to be considered a vacation destination. It may be a preference for locals to spend a day off work, but who really books a week at Universal? There just isn't enough there to do that. The addition of this PotterLand isn't going to change that. It's not going to cause people to leave WDW in droves and stay at the HardRock Hotel instead. It may stir up enough interest to cause a larger number of Disney guests to go off property for a day to check it out, but...so what? Those people are still coming back to sleep at their Disney resort that night, they've already bought theme park admission for their trip and, heck, they may even be going back to a Disney park later in that evening after finishing up Universal early in the afternoon. I really don't see any threat whatsoever to Disney from this PotterLand thing. In order for Universal to pose any kind of threat to WDW, they will have to buy up alot of land and greatly expand their resort to make it possible for people to stay a week on property and not feel the need to leave. As long as Universal remains a day or two destination, then they pose no threat whatsoever to Disney. Period. And I don't care how many improvements they put into their existing parks.

 

[Pete C]

Potterland is going to retheme some existing small rides in Lost Continent, add a big Castle facade and a shopping street leading up to it, and then have a new E Ticket ride along the lines of Spiderman or Indiana Jones Adventure. I'm sure the ride will be great, but this is Universal and they have a habit of taking a few short cuts or not quite pushing the theme to its fullest. There will be a new buffeteria restaurant, and a few themed snack bars. But it basically rethemes and expands an existing park area; Lost Continent.

I would put Lost Continent's theming against anything that WDW has to offer. While not all of IOA is up to Disney standards, the entrance market certainly is, as is all of the Lost Continent and Suessland. The Dueling Dragons castle is easily on par with the very best Disney has to offer. I expect Hogwarts to trump that, and it will not be just some small little facade. The castle will be large with things to do inside of it, not to mention the E-ticket that is sure to amaze. IOA's theming quality is a mixed bag, but you could say the same about a lot of WDW as well. I don't think any single park at WDW stands above IOA from a theming standpoint across the board. Even AK has Dinoland. There are weak points at every park.

 

[Lee]

Separate question not directed to you only - what's the word on the street RE: Potterland? How come we never hear rumors of cutbacks, budget problems, etc for Uni? Does it still seem to be living up to its original billing, or has it been so tightly under wraps from the start that nobody knows?

Uni just doesn't have the fan community that Disney has, so there really isn't the undergroung information flow.
But...what I do know...
Yes, it will live up to it's billing, and more. There are aspects that haven't been released yet that will top anything Disney has done in since ToT or Indy.
It's budget hasn't been cut back. Instead, it is currently running over budget...and behind schedule.

 

[itasman]

You may well be right.

I am not sold at all on the Dubai/UAE mirage.

And I'll not set foot in that country.

I am curious as to why you think it is a mirage.

Theme parks aside...what exists today in Dubai, and also what is under construction, is of stunning scale and quality. Multipurpose buildings, hotels, malls, etc far exceeding anything in the US.

The leaders in UAE know well that oil will run out...and that is exactly why they have focused on turning their country into a financial, tourist, and transportation hub...so that there are self-generating sources of income when the black gold is gone. While there are real problems in the Middle East, people in Europe and Asia tend to be far more knowledgeable about the realities and nuances there...and in general do not harbor the same reservations that Americans have in visiting a place like the UAE.

If WDW wants to focus on the domestic market, it will continue to do well. However, that won't be case if they are counting on foreign visitors...except perhaps the ones from Latin America. I for one, do believe that Dubailand is very close to becoming reality, and when it does, it will give European and Asian guests significant pause before deciding to come all the way to FL.

 

[TP2000]

Not when every day when oil was going up it immediately was reflected in the prices at the pump. Shouldn't that have taken a month or weeks ... or even days?

No, it shouldn't. Oil is traded globally on a Commodity Futures market. You are paying for what the product will cost the market in the future.

If the prices are rising on the futures market, any good businessman would pass those costs on to the customer immediately to allow himself to buy more of the product in the future at what will be a higher price.

As the particular commodity price declines, whether it be copper or aluminum or oil, it takes slower for the price to be passed on to the consumer because the supplier already paid for todays product 60 or 90 days ago when the price was higher.

The free market works. As oil prices decline, so will gasoline prices. They already are declining by pennies per day here in SoCal. But when the commodity is traded on the futures market, the percentage of declines always lag the market by weeks and months.

So, now that we got our lesson in the global commodities market, how about that shelved Fantasyland redo?

There were some rumors that the Snow White coaster was going in to Disneyland as well, in the Big Thunder Ranch area as an expansion of Fantasyland, with the Snow White dark ride being changed over to Beauty and the Beast. I wonder if that plan has also been shelved for Disneyland? Or does this just impact WDW now? I was at Disneyland tonight and the place was PACKED! 90+ minute wait for Haunted Mansion Holiday, 75 minute wait for Indiana Jones, the dancefloor wall to wall teens doing the latest bizarre dance crazes at Tomorrowland Terrace, etc., etc.

The economy may be collapsing, but people are still packing Disneyland to the rafters. At least for now.

 

[Montyboy]

If the prices are rising on the futures market, any good businessman would pass those costs on to the customer immediately to allow himself to buy more of the product in the future at what will be a higher price.

As the particular commodity price declines, whether it be copper or aluminum or oil, it takes slower for the price to be passed on to the consumer because the supplier already paid for todays product 60 or 90 days ago when the price was higher.

But wasn't the increase already passed on to the consumer 60 to 90 days earlier when the higher price was charged to pay for the future delivery?

I'm only half joking. Prices are "sticky coming down", and justifying the price of commodities is part science and part fortune telling.

 

[whylightbulb]

Uni just doesn't have the fan community that Disney has, so there really isn't the undergroung information flow.
But...what I do know...
Yes, it will live up to it's billing, and more. There are aspects that haven't been released yet that will top anything Disney has done in since ToT or Indy.
It's budget hasn't been cut back. Instead, it is currently running over budget...and behind schedule.

This is mostly true. There were some relatively large cutbacks early on but what was left will top anything Disney has done in a long time.

 

[Brian Noble]

I never said nothing had happened.

You came pretty close. Let me remind you:

The point is the ONLY substanitive investment Disney has been making and is on DVC.

I don't see how anyone could call Everest, or many of the other additions on that list, "not substantive".

Has there been enough attention paid to MK? I'd agree with you that the answer is "no", despite the excellent work done on Mansion. Has there been substantive attention paid to the four parks as a whole? I'd disagree with you, and answer "yes".

I know you didn't intend it to be, but that's one of the most damning statements regarding DVCers I could imagine.

No, only that they define a rewarding vacation less narrowly than you appear to. You appear to be concerned only with MK, and then paint the entire Resort with that brush. The sense I get from the casual Disney "fan" (guests that come annually) is that they view the Resort in its entirety. There are parts of the Resort that do better on the "detail score" than others, true, but it's hardly been abandoned. The queues for Toy Story and Everest, for example, speak to that.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, it will live up to it's billing, and more. There are aspects that haven't been released yet that will top anything Disney has done in since ToT or Indy

I've said this before, but this is the best news the Disney fans could have hoped for. If Potterland manages to generate a noticeable increase in tourist market share for Universal, Disney will respond.

 

[OFTeric]

Separate question not directed to you only - what's the word on the street RE: Potterland? How come we never hear rumors of cutbacks, budget problems, etc for Uni? Does it still seem to be living up to its original billing, or has it been so tightly under wraps from the start that nobody knows?

I will share just a few points. First off Universal is a much smaller beast so it is a blessing and a curse because it is easier to get to know the people but it is harder to share because things are easily traceable.

I will say that there was some pretty outrageous blue sky stuff that I am actually glad is not getting built, but what has made it into blue prints and that will get built is pretty outstanding!

They are not cutting the quality of show, or the experience, but they are saving money in other areas that won't impact the guest.

A lot of times I feel like UO is where Disney was in the early 80's with their attention to show, detail and customer service! (2 parks 3 Resorts)

On a personal note, I love how EVERY Universal Attraction has it's own costume! I really wish Disney would still do this!

 

[brucie]

I've said this before, but this is the best news the Disney fans could have hoped for. If Potterland manages to generate a noticeable increase in tourist market share for Universal, Disney will respond.

I hope Potterland is a bigger success then they hoped for and Disney responds with there full might and the biggest announcment ever by Disney for any themepark and crushes the brief hope that potterland could take on the mouse. Disney would need to pull it together though and go back to the days where Ideas came before money. And realize that HUGE investment and Imagineers with no limits can do amazing things.

 

[tirian]

"Simultaneous Reporting" of this today at JHM. (I'm using my terminology carefully these days.)

Blech. :hurl: Hill wrote a teensy little blog about a really big problem.

But he's actually right in this case! (I can't believe I just said that.) The DRC has known about the 2009 problem for a while, and Disney was counting on international tourists to make up the difference.

Now the British banking fiasco happened.

If attendance really does plummet as much as Disney expects, now is the time for refurbs—not when the parks are packed again.

 

[dandaman]

The DRC has known about the 2009 problem for a while, and Disney was counting on international tourists to make up the difference.

Now the British banking fiasco happened.

I hear they'd fed the birds with their tuppence instead of investing it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Next thing you know, they'll be flying kites!

 

[VT GAL]

Next thing you know, they'll be flying kites!

Up to their highest heights?

:animwink: