Economy does in Fantasyland

[jt04]

I don't think Dubai is real competition for Orlando in any real sense. I also don't believe that half the stuff proposed will actually get built. I also don't believe it is a great vacation destination ... a desert run by religious fundamentalists who want the western money but not the western 'culture' that is coming in ... yeah, sounds like a dream location.

A vast majority of guests to Orlando would never consider a Dubai vacation for all sorts of reasons.

Now, Potter at IOA is a different story ... and it will put a serious hurting on the Mouse if he steadfastly refuses to invest in his parks and thinks that marketing magic will trumpet Potter's Hogwarts magic.

Dubai is a different kettle of fish compared to other countries in the Middle East. Now you may not believe they will follow up with their plans but that is to ignore the evidence. Never in human history have construction projects of this magnitude ever occured. They have built massive islands in the ocean, an unbelievable amount of buildings and infrastructure and the world's tallest building. To top that they are now buliding a skyscraper over 1 Kilometer high. Amusement parks are trivial compared to what is happening already.

The "World" project was originally going to be a series of private islands. But it has now morphed into a series of luxury resorts that will reflect it's geography. Kinda like World Showcase on a grand scale. I really believe that is why there are no plans for adding countries to WS. Any nation interested in this kind of development is looking to Dubai rather than Epcot. It will simply be unbelievable when finished. (all the islands are now above water).

They are buying many jumbo jets to cater to the expected demand from Europe and Asia. I am not suggesting WDW will lose American tourists although those that can afford it will definitely go. The real danger is losing Europeans, and Asian tourists. Dubai is just as easy or easier to travel to for those markets than to go to the United States.

And from what I have seen the parks will surpass anything ever done including by OLC. They artwork and scope of the projects is beyond belief.

I hate that the US does not do this kinda of cuttin edge development anymore. Between the environmentalists and our ridiculous tax system we are losing that edge. Shame really. Quite a shame.

 

[Lee]

They removed the loop?
I mean, other than to make room for the TSM equipment?
Didn't know that..

 

[Brian Noble]

Disney redid the blocking zones, and I think that was the real breaking (er, "braking") point.

The only thing on Disney's expansion slate in Florida is timeshare, timeshare and more timeshare....Whether it's a good business to be in, and I think it largely is, isn't the point.

Only if you don't consider that Disney is, you know, a business.

The point is the ONLY substanitive investment Disney has been making and is on DVC. Money needs to be put into the parks.

Well, let's see. In the same post-2001 world, the Florida resort has added the following:
* Wishes
* Mission:Space
* Philharmagic
* Soarin'
* Lights Motors Action
* Everest
* Toy Story

Add in several minor additions (some successes, some failures) a modest refurbishment of Pirates and a pretty spiffy Mansion, and it's not like nothing has happened.

 

[Pete C]

Also, Intamin has the worst track record for malfunction, injuries, and deaths of any modern coaster builder (not including old Togos...I'm talking last 10 years here). Their track designs are, hands down, the most intense and best out there IMO...no doubt, but about once a year they are in the news for some death or injury. Some may say fault could be blamed on ride ops, etc, however no B&M nor Vekoma has ever killed a rider that I can recall.

 

[mcjaco]

They removed the loop?
I mean, other than to make room for the TSM equipment?
Didn't know that..

My memory might be a bit foggy, but I recall them removing the loop, and putting in an entirely new one at the same time for TSM work.

EDIT: I knew I read that somewhere: http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31550&highlight=california+screamin

 

[Pete C]

Harry Potter's Playfull Spot is going to turn out to be a non-event.
Lot's of Hoopla.

IMHO

Universal-hater in the house.

 

[Computer Magic]

The sense I get from most DVCers is that they view the reosrt as a whole, and not MK in isolation. Viewed that way, most seem happy.

I have to agree. I'm not a DVCer, but we stayed at BC this year. I actually enjoyed the resort more then the parks :lookaroun

Pretty sure their "happiness" won't last if Disney does not respond to the Potterland/Dubai competition in a meaningful way.

Who says DVCers have to visit the parks? Stay at Disney resort and go to Universal :lookaroun

 

[Fade_to_Blah]

...........Anyone want to explain why oil is $80 a barrel and yet gas in South Florida is all of about 45 cents cheaper than it was when it was $147?
..........

Without trying to turn this into a huge politcal debate....your probably watching the oil price per barrel on the stock market. Thats the November contact. I think oil on the October contract ended at 120 dollars or something? I forget. But anyways, you cant watch futures and expect that price to automatically be reflected at the pump. It takes time for that price to trickle down all the way through the refineries and to the local gas station owners. Then there was the hurricans knocking out refining capacity in the south. So yea...eventually the gas will be in line the the 80 bucks a barrel.

 

[TP2000]

I don't think Dubai is real competition for Orlando in any real sense. I also don't believe that half the stuff proposed will actually get built. I also don't believe it is a great vacation destination...

I have to respectfully disagree with you on Dubailand. I feel very strongly that only 10% of the stuff proposed will actually get built. :lol:

Dubailand is the biggest joke of the early 21st century. Dubailand only exists in internet press releases and slapped together photoshop pictures of theme parks in the desert. It's simply a mirage, and the crashing price of oil isn't going to help this mirage come to life.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

Wow. times MUST be getting bad if they're putting a Princess' gift shop on hold. At least I know I have time to see the new stuff they have now before they add more XD
As for the retheme of Toontown, well, anything would be better than what they have now, but I consider myself a mix fan. I want to see the old and new blended together. I don't want to see Toontown COMPLETELY rethemed to Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, yet at the same time, I would like to see a LITTLE mention of it. Like, perhaps one clubhouse somewhere in Toontown. With Disney only focusing on the old and never the new and edgy makes them not only alienate potential new fans, but makes them "old-fashioned" and if there's anything Walt never wanted Disney to be, it's "Old Fasioned."

 

[TP2000]

Harry Potter's Playfull Spot is going to turn out to be a non-event.
Lot's of Hoopla.

IMHO

Thank you for saying that. I actually feel the same way, and yet when you hear some folks here talk you would think Potterland was going to rewrite the book on theme park design and make tumbleweeds roll down Main Street USA.

Potterland is going to retheme some existing small rides in Lost Continent, add a big Castle facade and a shopping street leading up to it, and then have a new E Ticket ride along the lines of Spiderman or Indiana Jones Adventure. I'm sure the ride will be great, but this is Universal and they have a habit of taking a few short cuts or not quite pushing the theme to its fullest. There will be a new buffeteria restaurant, and a few themed snack bars. But it basically rethemes and expands an existing park area; Lost Continent.

And this rewrites the theme park play book and has Disney shaking in its boots? Why? Am I missing something?

Not to say Disney shouldn't be adding rides to its four Orlando parks. And this rumor that the previous rumors about a rumored expansion of Fantasyland have been cancelled are a real bummer. Or at least a rumor of a bummer.

WDW needs RIDES for its theme parks. With the addition of five new rides to DCA over the next three and a half years, Anaheim is getting very close to matching the total number of RIDES that WDW has. Two Anaheim theme parks are going to have nearly as many rides as four Orlando theme parks by 2012! WDW needs to start building RIDES!

But it seems to me Potterland and Dubailand isn't quite the big scary monster its made out to be.

 

[OFTeric]

Not to say Disney shouldn't be adding rides to its four Orlando parks. And this rumor that the previous rumors about a rumored expansion of Fantasyland have been cancelled are a real bummer. Or at least a rumor of a bummer. .

You get mad props on the ultimate use of the word rumor in a single post!

 

[Olijimcha]

Interesting article but not entirely unexpected reading, it was only a matter of time in the current world climate before stories such as this started doing the rounds.
It's near impossible to say if all (or any) of the expected projects will go ahead or not, all we can hope for is that those which are embarked upon are completed to the highest standards. Personally I'd rather see only half the projects go ahead & be completed properly than all them go ahead and be half baked versions of what they should be.

To be honest I wouldn't like to be Disney management, it's a no win situation. If they are over cautious we'll be raging because the beloved WDW isn't improved, if they're flippant and get into financial difficulties we'll be raging that they haven't been carefull with our beloved WDW. Then again they might just luck out & get the balance right - you never know!

 

[WDW1974]

The sense I get from most DVCers is that they view the reosrt as a whole, and not MK in isolation. Viewed that way, most seem happy.

I know you didn't intend it to be, but that's one of the most damning statements regarding DVCers I could imagine.

Because what it really means is that the little Disney Details can go to hell. And that the parks and resorts can be watered down/WalMarted, so long as the total package is magical to DVCers.

That's why the MK is so empty and the land such a mishmash ... because to WDW management it doesn't matter that Tomorrowland is full of lousy, character-based attractions or that Frontierland no longer has one shop that sells anything remotely themed to its area or that the one mall Gap costume fits all (so long as it is XXXL) so long as people can come and 'ride the Disney mountain range' and then take off to ride Everest at DAK and then go ride ToT at The PArk Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios with a buffet dinner at Chef Mickey's in between and a (at least until January) nightcap of Fantasmic everything's hunky-dory (as a hockey mom might say).

It's the total is greater than the sum of its parts argument and it HAS been the way WDW has been run since the mid-late 90s.

It isn't a good thing.

 

[MousDad]

I have ... and they have.

But when last I heard Space Mountain was closing down on Jan. 1st for 18 months.

That was WITH substantial budget cuts from original proposals.

Now, if it's truly seven months, I don't see what else it could be but ops and/or Phil Holmes saying 'we can't possibly close Space for that long so let's cut out ...'

For the life of me, I couldn't figure that one out, so thanks for the clarification. The money (for the big refurb) is still there, huh?

No surprise that Lee and Martin were right.

 

[WDW1974]

Oh just wait until people find out how delayed/ frozen Star Tours is...

Really?!

That's not what I had heard from my recent visit to Glendale.

That was about a month ago now, though.

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

 

[OFTeric]

Really?!

That's not what I had heard from my recent visit to Glendale.

That was about a month ago now, though.

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

You might/do know more on this, and if you can give me some words of encouragement that would be great on this topic, but I have bean counting friends and it wasn't too promising.

 

[Enigma]

You might/do know more on this, and if you can give me some words of encouragement that would be great on this topic, but I have bean counting friends and it wasn't too promising.

So disney has no problem spending millions expanding DVC everywhere to scam guests but when it comes to upgrading/retooling/adding rides they have to put all that on hold? That is such BS and if they keep this up people will get wise and stop coming to the parks.

 

[WDW1974]

Well, let's see. In the same post-2001 world, the Florida resort has added the following:
* Wishes
* Mission:Space
* Philharmagic
* Soarin'
* Lights Motors Action
* Everest
* Toy Story

Add in several minor additions (some successes, some failures) a modest refurbishment of Pirates and a pretty spiffy Mansion, and it's not like nothing has happened.

I never said nothing had happened.

But not nearly enough positive substanitive additions, expansions and plussing has transpired. And no park is as stale as the MK is.

I haven't been to TDL (headed there in the spring) but I am a regular at DL and DLP and recently hit HKDL for the first time. None of those parks has the stale vibe that the MK has.

 

[WDW1974]

Without trying to turn this into a huge politcal debate....your probably watching the oil price per barrel on the stock market. Thats the November contact. I think oil on the October contract ended at 120 dollars or something? I forget. But anyways, you cant watch futures and expect that price to automatically be reflected at the pump. It takes time for that price to trickle down all the way through the refineries and to the local gas station owners. Then there was the hurricans knocking out refining capacity in the south. So yea...eventually the gas will be in line the the 80 bucks a barrel.

Sorry, don't buy it.

Nope.

Not when every day when oil was going up it immediately was reflected in the prices at the pump. Shouldn't that have taken a month or weeks ... or even days?

No, this is the oil companies gouging consumers being allowed by our oilman lame duck.

We should be paying about $2.10 a gallon ... the national average is still $3.40. That's a joke. A sick one.