Economy does in Fantasyland

[jt04]

The sense I get from most DVCers is that they view the reosrt as a whole, and not MK in isolation. Viewed that way, most seem happy.

Pretty sure their "happiness" won't last if Disney does not respond to the Potterland/Dubai competition in a meaningful way.

 

[WDW1974]

I took my money out of the stock market as soon as the the "bailout" package came to the floor of the house and a single vote had been cast. (it failed the first time as you know but I knew that would not stop the raw power grab of the politicians) You see I understand socialism never ever works. Let me say that again, never ever ever. Never has never will. So my funds are fine and I am not decimated. I am not so delusional as to think the bailout could or would work. You sound like you think it will .Thanks for your concern about my financial well being though. You might want to take a market oriented economics class. It will set you free!

I am in amazement that the same President and politicians who would never go for socialism where it might say help people without healthcare are so willing to jump into what is boderline Communism by trying to bailout Wall Street and banks.

If someone who took out a bad mortgage and is getting thrown out of their house is on their own for bad choices, why should one penny go to Wall Street? Let the companies fail. Let the bigshots jump out of windows or put guns in their mouths. I don't mean to be cruel just rational.

The double standard and hypocrisy in this country is sickening.

Anyone want to explain why oil is $80 a barrel and yet gas in South Florida is all of about 45 cents cheaper than it was when it was $147?

Oh yeah, it's all fixed ... but I digressed ...

And I can go to the bank right now and get a loan. I have researched it and if you put money down the banks are still lending (barring anymore "government(s) intervention"). The only credit cards that wouldn't have worked are those with an outstanding balance. Those "paid up" would still work for most people.

Great for you. But many banks aren't giving loans. Even to those with great credit. And what about average people who have simply good credit, or worse, those with fair credit? Totally screwed. But let's give a trillion dollars to Wall Street. Amazing what has happened over the past eight years.

Don't even get me started on the takeover threats under Eisner. I suggest reading "Disney Wars" and applying a bit of critical thinking. It's obvious what was going on. :brick:

Disney Wars doesn't present a 100% unbiased view of what transpired, although I do feel most of it is pretty on target.

 

[fosse76]

I took my money out of the stock market as soon as the the "bailout" package came to the floor of the house and a single vote had been cast. (it failed the first time as you know but I knew that would not stop the raw power grab of the politicians) You see I understand socialism never ever works. Let me say that again, never ever ever. Never has never will. So my funds are fine and I am not decimated. I am not so delusional as to think the bailout could or would work. You sound like you think it will .Thanks for your concern about my financial well being though. You might want to take a market oriented economics class. It will set you free!

Nowhere in my posts did I say the bailout would work. I think they should have let the economy collapse, it would serve them right. And as for socialism...I'm sure you won't have any complaints when you're cashing your social security check...I also hope you don't use any public highways, nor visit any public parks. I assume you didn't attend public schools nor send your children to a public school. I assume you didn't take out a Federally subsidized student loan. I'm sure you don't ever rely on the police or fire departments, and that if you needed their services you wouldn't call them. Because who would want all of these socialist services!

And I can go to the bank right now and get a loan. I have researched it and if you put money down the banks are still lending (barring anymore "government(s) intervention"). The only credit cards that wouldn't have worked are those with an outstanding balance. Those "paid up" would still work for most people.

You can...businesses can't (unless the bailout started to "work"). This crisis, caused by the mortgage mess, led to the banks unwilling to lend each other money. They continued to issue their short term loans, however, had the bailout not passed, they would have stopped those as well, and many businesses would have folded. The economy relies on credit to function. While I could go out and get a loan for school or a house, Disney is not, however, going to be able to borrow tens of millions of dollars, because it is more of a risk for the bank. The banks can't collect all that money at once, so their own finances will be the problem. The crisis wasn't a result of no money...it was based on a fear that there MIGHT NOT be any money. As for the consumer freeze, I believe that was a threat by the banks if there was no type of bailout. So it would have happened.

Don't even get me started on the takeover threats under Eisner. I suggest reading "Disney Wars" and applying a bit of critical thinking. It's obvious what was going on. :brick:

It doesn't matter, the cause and effect of EPCOT and the other improvements during the earlier financial crisis is speculative at best. The effect is not a result of the cause. The economy got better, so WDW, designed and built as a destination resort, got more popular as people were becoming more prosperous. EPCOT and those other attractions helped, of course...but to say that the timing of their investment was the cause is ludicrous.

 

[mcjaco]

That much is true.

But if you think DL's version is so good, you should ride HK's and Paris's because they're even better ... considerably so.

WDW's is a sad, stale shadow of what was once a cutting edge coaster ride (and not just a 'Disney coaster'). It should have been gutted over a decade ago and replaced with a new version.

It's a joke that it is 2008 and the same 1975 ride (in about 1992 shape) is still plodding along while fans whine about them closing it for any length of time.

This is far from scientific, but here's all of the Space Mountain's rating (1-10) from Coasterfanatics.com:

SM: Alpha - 6.85
SM: Omega - 7.05
DL - 7.64
DLP - 7.39
Tokyo - 7.00
HK - 7.6

That's a pretty small variance between the six. Again. It's all subjective to each rider. So to make blanket statements on how one is obviously far superior, is silly.

 

[Master Yoda]

This is far from scientific, but here's all of the Space Mountain's rating (1-10) from Coasterfanatics.com:

SM: Alpha - 6.85
SM: Omega - 7.05
DL - 7.64
DLP - 7.39
Tokyo - 7.00
HK - 7.6

That's a pretty small variance between the six. Again. It's all subjective to each rider. So to make blanket statements on how one is obviously far superior, is silly.

It is off the subject but I love how Omega gets a higher rating than Alpha and they are mirror images of each other with the exception of a few feet of unload track.:lol:

 

[mcjaco]

^ I thought the same thing.

 

[Lee]

They must be the only company that will allow Disney to take credit for their designs.

That, plus they are very easy to work with in the area of custom work. B&M almost tells you what you're getting. Intamin worked with Disney for Screamin'...never will again. Vekoma does whatever Disney wants, as much or as little.

 

[WDW1974]

So have most companies---and many have been hit even harder. Disney's stock value has nothing to do with what is or isn't happening with Space Mountain.

I was just stating a fact. Not tying anything together.

Oh, please. Enough with WWWD. Even if you want to go that route, different times call for different measures. Walt planned and opened Disneyland in post-war America, and died 12 years later. That period, 55 to 66, saw nearly uninterrupted growth: only three years had negative returns in the S&P 500 and only one was more than 10%.

2001 and 2002 saw a combined 50% drop in stock values, and a complete hammering of Disney's domestic theme park business. Reacting by trying to aggressively build up a captive audience of timeshare owners is a pretty rational strategy.

I don't think Walt wanted to buy 28,000 acres in Central Florida to build the Timeshare Kingdom of the World. Sorry to all DVCers who might be touchy and get their feelings hurt. The only thing on Disney's expansion slate in Florida is timeshare, timeshare and more timeshare.

Whether it's a good business to be in, and I think it largely is, isn't the point.

(now, I do have an issue with DVCing every resort, including favorites like the WL, DAK Lodge and the Contemporary, instead of building stand alone resorts ... btw, next up is Disney's Grand Floridian Beach Resort AND Villas!)

The point is the ONLY substanitive investment Disney has been making and is on DVC. Money needs to be put into the parks. It's great that DVC provides a 'captive' market, but even that has a breaking point.

And the vast majority of Disney visitors aren't DVCers.

 

[WDW1974]

Pretty sure their "happiness" won't last if Disney does not respond to the Potterland/Dubai competition in a meaningful way.

I don't think Dubai is real competition for Orlando in any real sense. I also don't believe that half the stuff proposed will actually get built. I also don't believe it is a great vacation destination ... a desert run by religious fundamentalists who want the western money but not the western 'culture' that is coming in ... yeah, sounds like a dream location.

A vast majority of guests to Orlando would never consider a Dubai vacation for all sorts of reasons.

Now, Potter at IOA is a different story ... and it will put a serious hurting on the Mouse if he steadfastly refuses to invest in his parks and thinks that marketing magic will trumpet Potter's Hogwarts magic.

 

[WDW1974]

This is far from scientific, but here's all of the Space Mountain's rating (1-10) from Coasterfanatics.com:

SM: Alpha - 6.85
SM: Omega - 7.05
DL - 7.64
DLP - 7.39
Tokyo - 7.00
HK - 7.6

That's a pretty small variance between the six. Again. It's all subjective to each rider. So to make blanket statements on how one is obviously far superior, is silly.

I am not interested in ratings by coaster fans.

I am interested in the attractions based on how I feel they succeed as Disney attractions.

There are far better coasters in Central Florida than any at Disney from just a ride, adrenline-junkie point of view.

That's not what I expect from a Disney 'coaster.'

I expect the total package.

 

[EpcotServo]

Intamin worked with Disney for Screamin'...never will again. .

What happened there? Aside from alot of downtimes, Screamin' is like the best Coaster design in Disney.

 

[OFTeric]

Now, Potter at IOA is a different story ... and it will put a serious hurting on the Mouse if he steadfastly refuses to invest in his parks and thinks that marketing magic will trumpet Potter's Hogwarts magic.

Oh just wait until people find out how delayed/ frozen Star Tours is...

 

[mcjaco]

I am not interested in ratings by coaster fans.

I am interested in the attractions based on how I feel they succeed as Disney attractions.

There are far better coasters in Central Florida than any at Disney from just a ride, adrenline-junkie point of view.

That's not what I expect from a Disney 'coaster.'

I expect the total package.

Then I guess no one's opinion, but your own counts.

 

[Lee]

What happened there? Aside from alot of downtimes, Screamin' is like the best Coaster design in Disney.

Long story short:
Intamin built it. WDI modified it. Problems happened. Intamin no longer considers it one of their rides due to the extensive modifications. Intamin declines any further involvement with Disney coasters....so far.

 

[EpcotServo]

Long story short:
Intamin built it. WDI modified it. Problems happened. Intamin no longer considers it one of their rides due to the extensive modifications. Intamin declines any further involvement with Disney coasters....so far.

Ah, I see. Interesting stuff.

 

[RiversideBunny]

Harry Potter's Playfull Spot is going to turn out to be a non-event.
Lot's of Hoopla.

IMHO

 

[mcjaco]

That was with the loop, wasn't it?

 

[OFTeric]

Ah, I see. Interesting stuff.

Ya this piece of dirty laundry got aired after the California Screamin' crash a few years ago.

 

[Lee]

Lot's of Hoopla.

HOOPLA!

But, seriously...no...it's gonna be big.

That was with the loop, wasn't it?

Screamin'? Little bit. Also the electrical and control systems.

 

[mcjaco]

^ OK. I knew there was a lot of griping about the removal of the old loop.