Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

docandsix

Active Member
And "of course" you know exactly what I intended... because inferring purpose and meaning from a single sentence written by someone you don't know and have never communicated with is bound to yield an unerringly accurate characterization of that person's intent.

It sounds as though you'd like me to offer you the benefit of the doubt next time. Perhaps I made a bad guess or misjudged you. Fair enough. But remember that this discussion began with another bad guess:
I would guess that those who most see themselves and their attitudes reflected in the comment are also most apt to disagree vehemently with its accuracy.
Or, in other words, stop pointing those stereotypes at people. You might hurt someone.


...There are no damning, entrapping responses (or a telling lack of response), just discourse.... which, incidentally, tends to be halted dead in its tracks when the suggestion is thrown out that any possible response to a comment would necessarily be a "bad" one or a "wrong" one.

Again, maybe I'm wrong here, but my sense is that a de facto accusation of racism (or at least intolerance) against an entire segment of the popluation...
...WDW's bread and butter USA guest is WHITE and from less urbanized areas (meaning diversity to them is the one Chinese family that moved to town and runs the restaurant in the Walmart strip center). Many of those folks don't enjoy people that don't look, speak or (most importantly) think like they do. They are afraid of differences instead of embracing them...
...constitutes a type of "damning" response. I realize that you did not write that assertion, but you did then compose what I would consider an "entrapping response" to it, wherein anyone inclined to disagree with the initial proposition was essentially convicted of secretly holding the objectionable perspective WDW1974 was describing. Talk about halting discourse "dead in its tracks!"

...you then follow that up with a paragraph full of doctoral language that probably sounds extremely clever to most people reading it, but in fact is largely devoid of the meaning that you seem to be ascribing to it.

Which is what graduate school often sounds like, and how many dissertations read. That was my point. Thanks for making it for me. ;)

I thought the conversation had become uncomfortably analytical and judgmental. Judgmental opinions regarding middle America are available elsewhere. I am sorry if I turned my frustration on you unfairly, because I just came here to see if WDW1974's information about possible future WDW expansion had been further substantiated.

That said, I'd rather not take this discussion to graduate school (or anywhere else), both because I've been there, done that, and don't much feel like engaging in that kind of academic rhetoric again (and certainly not on a message board where there are more interesting things to discuss, like... you know... Disney parks), and also because I really don't want to take away from the actual meaningful discussion on this thread about Disney parks issues.

And on that note, we return to our regularly-scheduled programming...

Finally, something about which we agree!
 

drew81

Well-Known Member
It's a near sellout. Most are even opting for the $50 "Hug the Spirit" add-on. (Many seem to be from the Treehouse smoking area crowd. Mr. Smith will know what I mean.)

As for WDW helping out...no.
In fact, I'm getting a bit paranoid. My computer is acting squirrelly, I'm getting hang-ups from the 407 area code, and someone claiming to be from Meg's office called asking to get a good description of you "Purely for informational and security purposes."

I smell a trap. Thinking of calling the whole thing off.

May I please come to this? I can be Spirit's bodyguard if needed.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Other way around. It was planned and designed for Shanghai, then the summer 2010 re-do of FLE added it to the WDW plans.

I could be mistaken, but I believe it was originally intended (or proposed anyway) for MK and replaced by the extra meet-greet-. It was then stuck back into the plans, after. I've seen artwork displayed in the park (on the construction walls of all things) with the date '2009' prominent in the right hand corner.

Not that it's important one way or the other because it really isn't.
 

scpergj

Well-Known Member
May I please come to this? I can be Spirit's bodyguard if needed.
I'll join, if you want the help. My wife and I will be there for Food and Wine (and beer and Spirits!!!) anyway - might as well find some way to spend the hot part of the day! (oh wait, isn't that what the pool at the Beach Club is for??)
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Come on.. you act like the entire eastern US is rural Iowa... your assertion forgets that metroplex that is DC-Boston. All of which is very diverse.

You really like twisting my words around sometimes. ... No, the entire eastern USA isn't rural Iowa.

But MANY WDW guests come from small towns from New Hampshire to Kentucky to Pennsylvania to ... yeah, Iowa.
Those places aren't know for diversity. That is a statement of fact. Not subjective, objective. I really don't want to get into a discussion about SmallTown USA and how wonderful it is

Oh, and as someone originally from Boston, I'll state that while the city is quite diverse (and terrific) when you drive 40 minutes into the suburbs it is a whole different world. Many of those folks I meet at WDW in resort pools extolling the values of buying into DVC!
 

juan

Well-Known Member
I could be mistaken, but I believe it was originally intended (or proposed anyway) for MK and replaced by the extra meet-greet-. It was then stuck back into the plans, after. I've seen artwork displayed in the park (on the construction walls of all things) with the date '2009' prominent in the right hand corner.

Not that it's important one way or the other because it really isn't.
That may be true, but I don't think it was anything more than proposals and concept art. The Shanghai budget footed the bill for the design, engineering and drafting. Once the change was made in late spring 2010, WDI already had the detailed blueprints slapped onto the FLE layout.

Nope not at all, just glad its coming instead of the other crap
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There will always be stupid... but that doesn't mean you call everyone stupid.

No one, least of all this Spirit, called anyone let alone everyone stupid. It's often tough not to do so here, but I manage. ... I would never think to accuse someone of painting a whole group like that. ... There is a difference between saying someone isn't exposed to diversity and may be afraid of it and saying they hate others. That's actually one helluva leap ... I didn't take it, you did. And I really am going to try (yet again) to not turn this into a semantics debate with you because then a 104-page thread of mostly great discussion and info will wind up getting closed because it's easier that way.

The jist I agree with is American's don't travel abroad. This is largely true. Worse, the WDW faithful seem to travel even less except to WDW.

Most don't. There's a thread I'd love to get back to, but keep winding up elsewhere here, on the DVCs at the Poly and folks talking about traveling to the real Polynesia and that is a TINY amount of the visitors who will happily (mindlessly?) plop down $700 a night for standard room at the Disney version in O-Town.

Americans have never been known as a traveling nation and with the economy what it is, no time is likely worse for it. I've been everywhere from China to Japan to France to Spain to Germany to Portugal to the UK just since 2010. I've spent many months of that time abroad. When you're lucky if you get two weeks a year (and the boss really doesn't like it when you take them together!), it makes it hard to leave. And when people (and your government) work to scare the hell out of you about leaving the 'safety' of the USA, that makes it worse.

Much easier to book 10 nights at Pop Century in June and 5 nights at Port Orleans in December and call yourself a traveler.

However, that doesn't mean people don't see or are immersed in diversity of culture east of the Mississippi. That's just plain ignorance of what urban and suburban life is like in the NE and any growing urban centers. It's a lame stab at trying to call people rhubs..

Honestly, it seems like you're trying to create some discussion that isn't what was said and one that I certainly wouldn't mind having, but again feel this isn't the place ... and since I've already taken one discussion with you off boards, I don't wish to take another.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Unfortunately, nothing I thought was worth taking the day off for. Or driving 20 minutes up the road for. And that is sad.

Spirited Meet, Greet & (for an extra fee) Gropes are worth traveling miles ... with no sleep, no food ... no water ... no bathroom breaks (wear a diaper!)

I can provide more entertainment than Disney is likely to on another anniversary that they'd just as soon forget.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
May I please come to this? I can be Spirit's bodyguard if needed.

The more, the merrier (we will have merry men, and hopefully women too, loaded with sacks of Pixie Dust!)

(Should I be playing Whitney Houston now? I always preferred the original Dolly Parton version and I don't like country music!)
 

Taylor

Well-Known Member
The more, the merrier (we will have merry men, and hopefully women too, loaded with sacks of Pixie Dust!)

(Should I be playing Whitney Houston now? I always preferred the original Dolly Parton version and I don't like country music!)
Well you know Whitney was into "the dust" so it would be appropriate ;)
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
It sounds as though you'd like me to offer you the benefit of the doubt next time.
. . .
Finally, something about which we agree!

So as not to continue this discussion in the thread after we agree it's not worth doing so (not that there's much more to be said), I'm taking it to PM.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
No one, least of all this Spirit, called anyone let alone everyone stupid.

The point of the comment was the existence of 'some' quantity does not justify generalizing all.

This area keeps coming up because you keep going there... Painting the customer base in such stereotypes to feed hyperbole.

Many Americans cherish tradition in family vacations.. Leading to repetition in vacation styles. Add that to the Disney obsession and that pattern of vacationing at wdw alone is hard to break. Honestly so many will ride a ship to the bottom out of love for familiarity.

I think Disney would have to inflict family harm on some folks before they will break their comfort loop with wdw.

And part of working for foreign companies is... I get the perks of their expectations of work/life balance :)
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I actually think the Mine Train will be a fun little ride, but cloning it in both Shanghai and WDW does nothing but diminish both resorts.

I really disagree on this. Of all of the resorts around the world that people can visit, I highly doubt that anyone is "cross-shopping" Shanghai and WDW.

There always has been and always will be cloned attractions at different parks, and even "cloned" ones are usually unique in some way.
 

Hrudey3032

Well-Known Member
Florida's Turnpike has never NOT had active construction on it. I-95, I-75, I-4 etc ... as soon as one project wraps, a new one begins, even if there's no reason for it.

Sounds like I-465 in Indianapolis. I have lived in Indy my whole life and for as far back as I can remember there were Orange Barrels everywhere along 465.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I really disagree on this. Of all of the resorts around the world that people can visit, I highly doubt that anyone is "cross-shopping" Shanghai and WDW.

There always has been and always will be cloned attractions at different parks, and even "cloned" ones are usually unique in some way.
Duplicating attractions at multiple resorts gives people more opportunities to experience popular attractions. (Hopefully, Disney management is intelligent enough to not clone unpopular ones but ....) For those with the economic means to travel around the world visiting multiple Disney parks, cloned attractions mean they can experience (usually) different versions of some of their favorite rides. It gives them chances to compare and contrast the multiple versions. Perhaps more importantly, cloning attractions gives those with limited means chances to experience popular attractions in at least one form, something they might be unable to do if those attractions were located at only one resort.

From a business perspective, cloning attractions means reduced R&D cost. Ideally that money would be then used to develop more new attractions that, if popular, also could also be cloned. In this end, this means that Disney resorts could be kept more up-to-date, more fresh, something currently lacking at WDW.

I am not advocating that all resorts have identical sets of attractions. I am suggesting there are some "signature" Disney attractions that should be present in a customized form at more than one Disney resort.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
I really disagree on this. Of all of the resorts around the world that people can visit, I highly doubt that anyone is "cross-shopping" Shanghai and WDW.

There always has been and always will be cloned attractions at different parks, and even "cloned" ones are usually unique in some way.

Duplicating attractions at multiple resorts gives people more opportunities to experience popular attractions.

To clarify -- when I say "clone," I mean a virtual carbon copy of a ride. To my knowledge, the Mine Train that's going into the Shanghai park is going to be largely identical to the one that's going into the FLE. (I think there was talk that the Shanghai version might be longer, but from what looks to be a relatively recent park plan, the track layout and queue arrangement appear to be identical. Obviously, if the Shanghai version turns out to be substantially different, then this argument doesn't apply with regard to that specific attraction.) I also consider the Slinky dog, parachute drop, and RC Racer attractions at HKDL and DSP to be clones, even though the Toy Story (Play)Lands they appear in are somewhat distinctive. I don't, however, consider Indiana Jones at TDS and Indiana Jones at DL to be clones, despite the fact that they share the same layout and same use of the Indiana Jones character.

My distaste for clones has nothing to do with "cross-shopping" -- I've assumed that the vast majority of visitors to Disney parks do not have the means or inclination to decide among multiple Disney parks to visit, especially parks on different continents.

But what potential Disney guests all over the world do have, to some degree, is access to information about other Disney parks. And, to the extent that people are aware that they're getting exactly the same thing that another park somewhere else got -- I have to think that can't be as positive a feeling as knowing that you're getting at least a variation of an existing attraction -- or, better yet, something wholly original. I wouldn't underestimate the power (both emotional power and spending power) that the pride of place and ownership can inspire in people who have a fierce loyalty to a park that can endure for decades.

I just think there are very few -- if any -- "popular attractions" that are so unique and also so intrinsically tied to their particular underlying theme that making them somewhat different would be considered fundamentally detrimental. How many potential fans of the Mine Train ride would be disappointed if the same swinging mine cars were themed instead to a different Disney fairy tale? A few die-hard Snow White fans, maybe, but if the new "mine train" has the same vehicles and a well-fitting, well-executed new theme, I think the differences would more than outweigh the fact that the attraction isn't tied to the Seven Dwarfs.

I'm not against borrowing themes or ride systems to make virtual or spiritual "clones," provided the new attraction is as well executed, if not better executed, than the original. TDS's Tower of Terror, for example, has a beautiful queue and ride building and a compelling backstory. (Whether the ride itself is an improvement over, say, DHS's ToT is another issue entirely!) But TDS's ToT is, on the whole, something that TDR locals can be proud to call their own. Had the OLC simply put in a literal clone of the DCA Tower, I suspect that some number of TDR fans would have seen their faith in and loyalty to TDR somewhat diminished. (And I'm sure that HKDL fans are happy to have gotten the entirely new Big Grizzly Mountain runaway mine cars, rather than a carbon copy of Expedition Everest, however much fun Everest might itself be.)

But cloning -- i.e., literally taking something that's in one park and "cutting and pasting" it into another one (as seems to be the case with the Mine Train, and potentially might be the case with RSR and DCA/DHS) -- is uninspired at best, and lazy at worse.
 

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