Tim Delaney-Valerie Edwards dismissal thread

[WDW1974]

Your reality is nothing more than griping about every decision made at the mouse house. I know there are issues at Disney, and I'm not about to say everything is all roses. It never is, anywhere. And as for the not reading posts, this is an internet forum. I'll read what I want to read, and comment on what I want to comment on. Yesterday, I felt like commenting on one more of your "reality" posts. Deal. With. It.

I don't gripe about every decision made. On another site, everyone's old buddy Merfie is accusing me of being a Disney apologist because I had the gall to actually enjoy DLP and have never found DCA to be the awful place many fanbois believe it to be (usually without ever setting foot in it).

I have no problem with you or anyone else posting or commenting ... I am all for free speech. I just don't appreciate it when threads are turned into discussions about the poster, in this case myself.

If you think Tim and Valerie got what was coming to them and that WDI is headed in the right direction, then post it.

You're wrong. But you're entitled to be. But let that be the subject, not me.

Moronic fanboy posts are rampant at any Disney (or theme park website) no matter where you go. It's something you have to look past, or by way or your early thought: DO NOT READ IT. I haven't seen anyone be hateful towards those that "do know." I just haven't seen unbiased reporting from the likes of some around here. They only pop there head in when something "bad" happens to say "I told you so." This happens to be one of those times.

No one is 100% unbiased all the time and I've never claimed to be. But I know what kind of people Disney is ushering to the door. It doesn't bode well. Disney has always had one generation teach the next one. But that's happening less and less. And more work is being outsourced.

And I don't care that's the American way of doing business in the 21st century. I'm not blind or ignorant. I'm acutely aware of it. I also realize how badly it speaks to the future of our nation. Unless you think it's perfectly reasonable and rational that we not manufacture anything and that the top one percent of our nation are worth more than the bottom 95% put together.

Yeah, and we've lost good people where I'm at that were high paid as well. They spin it anyway they can, but it what is. A quick way to save some cash, and promote someone making a heck of a lot less to do the same job. It happens everywhere. Why would Disney be any different? The days of "What Would Walt Do?" are long gone, and as soon as some people can move past that, they'd be a lot happier with the state of the company.

If you think I sit back and ask WWWD, then you're mistaken. But I would hope and expect that Disney is run for the long term health of the company both creatively and financially and not for Wall Street's approval of the next quarterly results. Wall Street has been proven to be the biggest fraud we have going and every taxpayer is financing it.

So, the idea of just sitting back and blindly accepting whatever Disney does, doesn't appeal to me.

Or we could continue to harp on how terrible Disney is, and this is the worst thing that ever happened.....waaaaahhhhhhh. I've spent 34 years watching Disney go through all sorts of changes. In the end, they always surprise me, even when you think it can't get much worse. Hence the open mind. I honestly don't know how some of you can live day to day with all this negativity. It's a friggin' place to enjoy, and all you can do is complain about how wrong it's being run. Either substitute milk back into your corn flakes, or get another hobby. Life is too short.

I've used a lot of words to describe Disney over the years and 'terrible' most assuredly has never been one.

And I'm just amazed that so many people can't seem to get how you can get great joy out of many of the creative products a company produce, but still have issues with the direction management is taking the company.

You know you can absolutely be disgusted with TDO and still love a ride with 999 Happy Haunts ... or a voyage on the Happiest Cruise That Ever Sailed ... or a glass of chardonay while Illuminations is performed ... or a walk on Pagani Trek at DAK ... etc ...

It's a very simple concept, yet one that so many seem so ill equipped to grasp.

 

[WDW1974]

First, you're sounding like 74. Comparing a Six Flags, Cedar Fair park, etc, to Disney or even Universal isn't a fair comparison. They're two entirely different types of parks. Unlike 74, I hope you at least visit other parks outside of the Disney realm before making such comparisons. It makes your arguments that much more substantial, because you have first had accounts, not opinionated Walmarting blather.

First, get it straight. '74 frequents Disney resorts worldwide as well as Universal, BEC and some regional parks too.

No, he doesn't do Six Flags because they're largely coaster parks and he's not into that. He likes themed environments and quality attractions of all kinds.

And nice shot on the Walmarting, except for the fact that's exactly what Disney is doing -- at least in FLA with its massive discounting and lower quality.

Second, everyone here has done nothing but complain about the stagnation of the parks over the past ten years. That was with these Imagineers and the WDI structure in place. Now they're mixing it up and we're complaining. Where does it end? You can't have it both ways. I'm sorry but a lot of attractions over the last decade were put out there did sacrifice the "show" for a buck.

(And whenever I say "you" I mean everyone in general )

The stagnation of the parks in Florida had very little (almost zero) to do with WDI and everything to do with management (on both the local level and in Burbank).

If Imagineers ran the parks, two things would likely happen: the company would go bankrupt, but until it did the experieneces they'd offer would be mind-blowing.

Again, you want to blame someone for the stagnation and/or poor attractions at WDW, look at management. Not Flower Street.

 

[WDW1974]

I think you have hit on the main issue here, to some degree.
Yes the parks feel stagnant in some ways. Yes, some of the show has been weak in recent years.
However, WDI is not the place to lay that blame, in my opinion.
Those talented folks can give management whatever they want.
Want a TDS? Here you go.
Want a Hong Kong? Ok.
Management sets the parameters and budget, and WDI works within that constraint. Management wants cheap? They get what they pay for.

Exactly. This isn't exactly a secret. Yet, people want to blame the creatives. Couldn't possibly be the execs, MBAs and marketing mavens who control what WDI is allowed to spend and how.

Although take it to the bank that people won't be as nasty to you over posting it as they would be to me ... strange since you're such a bad- dude and I'm so loveable!:drevil:

Take Stitch's Not-So-Great Escape. There you have an example of a really talented guy like Kevin Rafferty, put into a situation where he practically had to get into a bidding war to keep the project at WDI and not outsourced. What started life as a $30mil plus makeover, got slashed down to only a fraction of that.
We got what they paid for, no fault of WDI. Same for the SM refurb.

Now, Lee, you know that's all on WDI. Nothing to do with Phil and Erin and Al and Jay. Besides, they're painting ... and that's all it takes to get fanbois convinced Disney cares these days.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Wow. Is any of thus related to the Imagineers or WDW?

 

[mcjaco]

I don't gripe about every decision made. On another site, everyone's old buddy Merfie is accusing me of being a Disney apologist because I had the gall to actually enjoy DLP and have never found DCA to be the awful place many fanbois believe it to be (usually without ever setting foot in it).

It's been my perception that you do. If I'm incorrect, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. I will agree with you on DCA. I also enjoyed it. Even for all it's convoluted theming.

I have no problem with you or anyone else posting or commenting ... I am all for free speech. I just don't appreciate it when threads are turned into discussions about the poster, in this case myself.

Now come on, that's not the truth. Anyone that posts anywhere wants people to notice them, and their posts. Let's not be silly. And I never turned it into all about you. 90% of my post was about the situation and my thoughts. Or are you that pompous?

If you think Tim and Valerie got what was coming to them and that WDI is headed in the right direction, then post it.

I never said that. I said we don't know the whole story (nor do I at this point), so to proclaim this is a horrendous injustice, is ridiculous.

You're wrong. But you're entitled to be. But let that be the subject, not me.

See two quotes up. Again, you're bringing YOURSELF up, not me.

No one is 100% unbiased all the time and I've never claimed to be. But I know what kind of people Disney is ushering to the door. It doesn't bode well. Disney has always had one generation teach the next one. But that's happening less and less. And more work is being outsourced.

And I could probably find just as many examples of situations when people think this is the worst, it comes out for the better. That's all I've been saying. And outsourcing is American Corporations. Disney won't be any different.

And I don't care that's the American way of doing business in the 21st century. I'm not blind or ignorant. I'm acutely aware of it. I also realize how badly it speaks to the future of our nation. Unless you think it's perfectly reasonable and rational that we not manufacture anything and that the top one percent of our nation are worth more than the bottom 95% put together.

Sorry, I shop at Walmart. I don't follow. :lookaroun

If you think I sit back and ask WWWD, then you're mistaken. But I would hope and expect that Disney is run for the long term health of the company both creatively and financially and not for Wall Street's approval of the next quarterly results. Wall Street has been proven to be the biggest fraud we have going and every taxpayer is financing it.

Again with the you, you, you. I never said YOU must sit back with the WWWD mind set.

You know you can absolutely be disgusted with TDO and still love a ride with 999 Happy Haunts ... or a voyage on the Happiest Cruise That Ever Sailed ... or a glass of chardonay while Illuminations is performed ... or a walk on Pagani Trek at DAK ... etc ...

It's a very simple concept, yet one that so many seem so ill equipped to grasp.

I do it every year I go. Because in the long run, there's more important things to worry about.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Ok!

mcjaco and WDW1974 until you can settle your differences,sit on the couch and hold hands.

Then apologize.
:lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

2. Personally, I've only complained about Disney with regard to WDW. I think Disney's done some INCREDIBLE things... Just not in Florida. Florida becoming stale and run down is what led me to take my family to every other Disney park in the world over the past 2 years... And honestly I think that only made it worse!!! When you see first hand what Disney does right, it's painful to see them do it wrong... And willingly. And maybe that's solely a TDO thing, I don't know. DL has done some great things over the past 10 years... And let's not even TALK about overseas. I've long said that I'm so critical of WDW because my family and I love it so much, and hate seeing it at such a lower quality than it's sisters around the world. There have been some steps in the right direction though... Like I said, I think a year from now, we'll know what track they're really on.

Agree 100%.

I have set foot in Anaheim, Hong Kong and Paris in just the last year. And it's very clear that WDW is governed by a different set of rules.

But how many people are lucky enough to travel as you or I have? Not many. And I can't help but think that there's an undercurrent of jealousy with some folks when you tell them how great the other parks/resorts are. That's why I can 'blather' on about how amazing DLP and DL were last month, but folks would rather focus on negative comments on WDW.

I guess overall, it's just a little disconcerting to see a handful of people that are widely regarded as extremely talented in this industry being let go. Where there's smoke, there's fire... And I just really feel like I'm smelling smoke.

This isn't just two people. That's like management apologists ripping anyone who complains about Disney raising parking $2 or removing prime rib from buffets or cutting eight performances of Fantasmic a week during summer. One person losing a job or a few isn't anything to worry about. A decade-long exodus of amazing talent ... a real brain-drain is.

Common sense would tell you that the top player in an industry wouldn't let top talent get away... For whatever reason. :shrug: I DO agree with what 74 says though... If Baxter is let go at the end of his contract next year, I think we'll see a revolt like never before.

Baxter is as good as gone. It's just the timing and many folks say with his contract up next year he'll pick DL's B-Day for maximum exposure.

But in reality fans should be more up in arms when someone like Tim gets axed. He was working on major projects up to the end. His close to a billion dollar Pirates-themed expansion of HKDL's A-land wasn't exactly small-time. Tony doesn't even really blue sky those things for DL anymore. He gets small things like the castle walk-thru, Disney Gallery, Lincoln etc ...

 

[WDW1974]

I have a friend wh likes to blame a lot of his dislikes in the park, like the big hat, on certain Imagineers. He can't seem to see that Imagineers are more like hired help and deliver what is asked for from them. And pretty well I might add.

That's just not accurate.

Eric Jacobson, a very talented guy, was responsible for both the wand and BAH abominations. But they weren't his fault ... Disney management wanted them. And he never intended them to last a decade (TDO decided they would for money reasons).

So do you say he's an awful Imagineer because of those tacky pieces of crap? Or do you judge the work he's done on everything from EPCOT to Blizzard Beach to the recent redos of Mansion and HoP?

And if the new F-land isn't all you want it to be, do you blame him because he wanted $750 million and got a lot less?

You can't buy a Morton's steak for a dollar, but you can get a McDouble.

 

[mcjaco]

Ok!

mcjaco and WDW1974 until you can settle your differences,sit on the couch and hold hands.

Then apologize.
:lookaroun

Not until he says DLP's SM is not good! :lol:

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
I don't gripe about every decision made. On another site, everyone's old buddy Merfie is accusing me of being a Disney apologist because I had the gall to actually enjoy DLP and have never found DCA to be the awful place many fanbois believe it to be (usually without ever setting foot in it).

It's been my perception that you do. If I'm incorrect, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. I will agree with you on DCA. I also enjoyed it. Even for all it's convoluted theming.

It may be a popular opinion, but it's very incorrect. I was quite positive about much of what I saw at WDW in July (food and beverage was my biggest issue). And I absolutely had 'magical' experiences at DLP and DL last month. I loved DLP so much that I am APer again, after a few-year absence.

And I enjoyed DCA from Day 1. It's a bit of a mess now with construction, but will be a much better place in 2010 and 2011 and so on ...

Don't confuse my distaste for Jay Rasulo and his management team for anything else.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
I have no problem with you or anyone else posting or commenting ... I am all for free speech. I just don't appreciate it when threads are turned into discussions about the poster, in this case myself.

Now come on, that's not the truth. Anyone that posts anywhere wants people to notice them, and their posts. Let's not be silly. And I never turned it into all about you. 90% of my post was about the situation and my thoughts. Or are you that pompous?

Oh, I am a pretty pompous Spirit, but you missed my point. Of course I want my posts to be read and noticed. I just don't want people ascribing views and opinions to me that are not correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
If you think Tim and Valerie got what was coming to them and that WDI is headed in the right direction, then post it.

I never said that. I said we don't know the whole story (nor do I at this point), so to proclaim this is a horrendous injustice, is ridiculous.

No, we don't. But I do know a fair amount more than what the average poster here does. And I've stated as much as I'm comfortably doing publically ...Eddie Sotto opted to not comment at all and he worked closely with the man.

I'm very comfortable stating Disney did screw Tim and Valerie and further diminish WDI with these moves.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
No one is 100% unbiased all the time and I've never claimed to be. But I know what kind of people Disney is ushering to the door. It doesn't bode well. Disney has always had one generation teach the next one. But that's happening less and less. And more work is being outsourced.

And I could probably find just as many examples of situations when people think this is the worst, it comes out for the better. That's all I've been saying. And outsourcing is American Corporations. Disney won't be any different.

And outsourcing is a major reason why our middle class is an endangered species and why we're becoming a third world nation.

I won't defend it just because 'everybody does it' ... if our corporations could get away with having legalized slavery, most would.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
And I don't care that's the American way of doing business in the 21st century. I'm not blind or ignorant. I'm acutely aware of it. I also realize how badly it speaks to the future of our nation. Unless you think it's perfectly reasonable and rational that we not manufacture anything and that the top one percent of our nation are worth more than the bottom 95% put together.

Sorry, I shop at Walmart. I don't follow. :lookaroun

Congrats. They're only one of the most vile corporations in the history of American business. But I've had one too many online discussions about the company, so enjoy the cheaper toilet paper and candy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
If you think I sit back and ask WWWD, then you're mistaken. But I would hope and expect that Disney is run for the long term health of the company both creatively and financially and not for Wall Street's approval of the next quarterly results. Wall Street has been proven to be the biggest fraud we have going and every taxpayer is financing it.

Again with the you, you, you. I never said YOU must sit back with the WWWD mind set.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but when someone quotes my posts in a negative tone, I assume they are talking about me (usually, they are).


Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
You know you can absolutely be disgusted with TDO and still love a ride with 999 Happy Haunts ... or a voyage on the Happiest Cruise That Ever Sailed ... or a glass of chardonay while Illuminations is performed ... or a walk on Pagani Trek at DAK ... etc ...

It's a very simple concept, yet one that so many seem so ill equipped to grasp.

I do it every year I go. Because in the long run, there's more important things to worry about.

Of course there are. I'd only say that the 'issues' I have with Disney are microcosms of what is happening in American society today. And people are generally sheep when it comes to anything these days.

That's why trillions of dollars of OUR money is going to corporations that should have been allowed to go belly up.

 

[WDW1974]

Not until he says DLP's SM is not good! :lol:

You're right. It's not good ... it's great.

I just wish it wasn't so damn rough that you need brain surgery after riding. Although, I did ride in the very front row this time and it seemed noticeably better than when I had another ride about 2/3rds back.

Still, coasters shouldn't hurt.

 

[mcjaco]

Still, coasters shouldn't hurt.

I'll end this on this little ditty. I think it may be the one thing we'll ever agree on.

Not that I don't mind a spirited debate, but I'm tuckered out today.

I'm headed back to DCA and DL this spring. Can't wait to see the changes. And I miss Indy.

 

[WDW1974]

I'll end this on this little ditty. I think it may be the one thing we'll ever agree on.

Not that I don't mind a spirited debate, but I'm tuckered out today.

That's cool. I had some actual work that needed to get done (or put off for tomorrow, but I decided to get it done!) ... I'm kind of glad there aren't 743 posts to respond to, or ignore (and then be questioned for doing so).:ROFLOL:

I'm headed back to DCA and DL this spring. Can't wait to see the changes. And I miss Indy.

They both looked great a few weeks ago. And hopefully you'll be going when WoC is open? That show will set a new standard for what Disney night magic can be (BTW, ABC was showing more national spots for DL's Fantasmic/new dragon again tonight during its great new sitcoms Modern Family and The Middle ... can't believe they're advertising for DL a show that is playing weekends only now ... and that isn't a complaint, I think it's great. Even if the commercial ends with the dragon flying over the DL logo ...to Cindy's Castle!)

Honestly, DL just seems to get better with every visit. I am sure you'll enjoy the trip.

 

[mcjaco]

They both looked great a few weeks ago. And hopefully you'll be going when WoC is open? That show will set a new standard for what Disney night magic can be (BTW, ABC was showing more national spots for DL's Fantasmic/new dragon again tonight during its great new sitcoms Modern Family and The Middle ... can't believe they're advertising for DL a show that is playing weekends only now ... and that isn't a complaint, I think it's great. Even if the commercial ends with the dragon flying over the DL logo ...to Cindy's Castle!)

Honestly, DL just seems to get better with every visit. I am sure you'll enjoy the trip.

If it's ready by the mid to the end of March, then yes. My last trip to DLR was in '07, and before that '89. I had never been to DCA so, I spent more time there, and missed a lot at DL. I like DL, just not as much as WDW. Or I should say, I like parts of DL more, but overall WDW is my preference. Either way, I'm excited to be going back!

 

[Buried20KLeague]

And I'm just amazed that so many people can't seem to get how you can get great joy out of many of the creative products a company produce, but still have issues with the direction management is taking the company.

You know you can absolutely be disgusted with TDO and still love a ride with 999 Happy Haunts ... or a voyage on the Happiest Cruise That Ever Sailed ... or a glass of chardonay while Illuminations is performed ... or a walk on Pagani Trek at DAK ... etc ...

It's a very simple concept, yet one that so many seem so ill equipped to grasp.

WOW, this is a WONDERFUL point... And one that resonates with me massively.

Especially the chardonay part.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

WOW, this is a WONDERFUL point... And one that resonates with me massively.

Especially the chardonay part.

Exactly...It's possible to critique, but still be a fan.:shrug:

 

[mcjaco]

Exactly...It's possible to critique, but still be a fan.:shrug:

Yes. But continued negativity makes your position weak. Surely, they must do some things right, or none of us would be on a internet forum talking about it all day, right? :ROFLOL::drevil:

And no thanks on the chardonnay. Beer for me please! :king:

 

[SirGoofy]

And no thanks on the chardonnay. Beer for me please! :king:

Spaten Oktoberfest from Germany!:king:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yes. But continued negativity makes your position weak. Surely, they must do some things right, or none of us would be on a internet forum talking about it all day, right? :ROFLOL::drevil:

And no thanks on the chardonnay. Beer for me please! :king:

Agreed. However, if more than one person has a vested problem with something, that usually does mean that there is a vested issue with something. Basic psychology tells us that.

Yes, Beer.:lookaroun:lookaroun:lol:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Agreed. However, if more than one person has a vested problem with something, that usually does mean that there is a vested issue with something. Basic psychology tells us that.

Yes, Beer.:lookaroun:lookaroun:lol:

Ummm... I believe you to be underage. Meaning that certainly you do not know the taste of beer.