Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
flynnibus said:
Step outside the bubble man... the mass market isn't following threads like this. The ads and buzz they see are not focusing on 7dwarves or princess hall not being complete.. they are talking about everything that IS done. In my personal circles of friends and associates I know of approximately 12 families who have been to WDW since the start of the year - and not one of them put NFE's incomplete status as a factor in NOT going. To them, 'its something new to check out' and they go in with an open mind and enjoyed what they got. Heck, one (who has a toddler) was raving how Dumbo's new queue saying 'this is how every ride should be...'.

Sometimes people need to step back and realize how they perceieve things may not be as commonly shared as they might think. We spend hours a week, or even a day, thinking, reviewing, contemplating Disney's actions and product. We are the 1%. The rest are looking at what to do, what not to do, and how to get the most from their trip. They aren't over analyzing the minutia. They are taking a vacation.
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Exactly.
 
MarkTwain

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
luv said:
OHRC? And don't "let me google that for you" me. I already tried.

Te parks are starting to get too crowded for me now. Whatever attendance is right now, it's close to the point where I don't want to be there.
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Operational Hourly Ride Capacity... the number of people that can ride a ride per hour.

EDIT: Woops, looks like it was answered already.
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Step outside the bubble man... the mass market isn't following threads like this. The ads and buzz they see are not focusing on 7dwarves or princess hall not being complete.. they are talking about everything that IS done. In my personal circles of friends and associates I know of approximately 12 families who have been to WDW since the start of the year - and not one of them put NFE's incomplete status as a factor in NOT going. To them, 'its something new to check out' and they go in with an open mind and enjoyed what they got. Heck, one (who has a toddler) was raving how Dumbo's new queue saying 'this is how every ride should be...'
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My personal circle has a very different view. They're unaware there is something called "New Fantasyland". Nor are they aware there's a Transformers ride being built. But they do know there's more "Harry Potter stuff" being added to Universal.

Universal created an incredible buzz when they opened WWOHP. My family and friends wanted to go on the "Harry Potter ride", even if they had no idea what it was.

The New Fantasyland has not created the excitement generated after the opening of WWOHP. Nor has it created the excitement after the opening of Carsland. IMHO, all one has to do is visit the New Fantasyland, WWOHP, and Carsland to understand why.

Whether SDMT would have made any difference is very much open for debate. What is clear is that both WWOHP and Carsland were more successful at attracting guests than the New Fantasyland.

As for the opinions of a parent with a toddler, I can only speak for my children. At that age, they thought the best thing about their first WDW vacation was the Port Orleans Riverside pool.:D
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
Goofyernmost said:
And if they are willing to pay the premium for that...who am I to stop them. I have better things to do with my money then throw it away on a fantasy. Remember my positions are mine alone. I may sound like I'm casting judgment on those that do it the other way, but I'm not. I don't understand it, but, I realize that it exists. It just remains a mystery to me. :oops:
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Our last 6 trips have been spent on site - at POP, during free dining, as that is the most I am willing to pay for the magic of staying on site. As EMH hours continue to get cut (or eliminated altogether, if rumours are to be believed) and the homogenization of menus increases, these benefits will no longer be worth the extra dough.
And given that we rent a car anyway, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is starting to look better and better.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Step outside the bubble man... the mass market isn't following threads like this. The ads and buzz they see are not focusing on 7dwarves or princess hall not being complete.. they are talking about everything that IS done. In my personal circles of friends and associates I know of approximately 12 families who have been to WDW since the start of the year - and not one of them put NFE's incomplete status as a factor in NOT going. To them, 'its something new to check out' and they go in with an open mind and enjoyed what they got. Heck, one (who has a toddler) was raving how Dumbo's new queue saying 'this is how every ride should be...'.

Sometimes people need to step back and realize how they perceieve things may not be as commonly shared as they might think. We spend hours a week, or even a day, thinking, reviewing, contemplating Disney's actions and product. We are the 1%. The rest are looking at what to do, what not to do, and how to get the most from their trip. They aren't over analyzing the minutia. They are taking a vacation.



Worst analogy of the year.
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Says you! :p
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
ParentsOf4 said:
My personal circle has a very different view. They're unaware there is something called "New Fantasyland". Nor are they aware there's a Transformers ride being built. But they do know there's more "Harry Potter stuff" being added to Universal.
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All of my contacts knew of New FL - they didn't know what was good or bad or necessarily drawn by it.. but they knew of it. And that's the point - they know of it, but they haven't been swayed to go BECAUSE of it, nor have they been staying away because it's not complete yet (as one of the many Goof** accounts infers).

I haven't heard any of them complain about New FL except for the people who went in January and the construction was a bit more intrusive then. Most wished the new ride was ready (uh.. who wouldn't) but I haven't had a single conversation where someone felt they screwed themselves by not waiting nor did anyone say they felt screwed by Disney because of it.

The impact of New FL is pretty much understood now if you ask me. It's another brick in the wall that helps the MK - but it's no weenie to bring people to Florida for that alone.
 
GiveMeTheMusic

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
I think we have to wait for D23 to draw any conclusions on their long term strategies. At this point it is impossible to discern specifics. Although the new parade will be a crowd-eater. You forgot to mention the new parade.

You have to have the infrastructure in place BEFORE the crowds get there.
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High capacity rides ARE infrastructure. The parade is a replacement of a current parade - no net change.
 
T

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
So you're saying the NEWEST resort.. which is so popular they have to exclude it from many of the promotions.. is the one PULLING DOWN the occupancy rates? Ok champ...:rolleyes:

And that same newest resort is responsible for the trend over the last few years? Another winning argument
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No. That's not what I'm saying. It's just the way the math works. These are completely made up numbers but let's say DAAR added 2,000 rooms:

Pre-DAAR, Disney has 26,000 rooms available and averages 21,000 rentals, or 81%.
Post-DAAR, Disney has 28,000 rooms available and averages 22,000 rentals, or 79%.

See how the math works? 1,000 MORE families per night are staying at WDW resorts, but the percentage dropped because capacity increased by more than rentals. Scenario 2 is more profitable than scenario 1. It's not that DAAR is half empty, it's that DAAR is pulling some guests away from other resorts in addition to the new guests it's bringing in. This is known as cannibalization.

Wikipedia said:
While this may seem inherently negative, in the context of a carefully planned strategy, it can be effective, by ultimately growing the market, or better meeting consumer demands. Cannibalization is a key consideration in product portfolio analysis.
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flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Tim_4 said:
It's not that DAAR is half empty, it's that DAAR is pulling some guests away from other resorts in addition to the new guests it's bringing in. This is known as cannibalization.
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Cannibalization I can agree upon - but AoA also has higher costs per room so it's an upsell for the value audience so Disney should be doing better on the Per Guest spending in that matter. So it's not about 'more rooms' as your post stated, but rather lack of drawing new guests. So again.. the problem is the product isn't desirable enough to overcome the cost to lure people into staying onsite. That's an unhealthy issue. That's an issue not really improved upon (nor necessarily hurt.. much) by AoA.

Disney is still relying on promos to fill those moderates and deluxes...
 
Mr Bill

Mr Bill

Well-Known Member
I decided to look into the occupancy rate/number of people staying in rooms issue and it is true that more people were staying on property in 2012 than 2011 despite the occupancy rate dropping from 82% to 81%. Disney uses "available room nights" as a measurement, the number of rooms available multiplied by the number of days in the year.

Here's the numbers pulled from the company's annual reports. Keep in mind that Disney only separates the parks and resorts by domestic and international, so these numbers also include Disneyland, not just WDW.

Code: 
Year        Occupancy        Available Room Nights    Room Nights Booked
2012        81%              9,850,000                7,978,500
2011        82%              9,625,000                7,892,500
2010        82%              9,629,000                7,895,780
2009        87%              8,732,000                7,596,840
2008        90%              8,566,000                7,709,400
2007        89%              8,614,000                7,666,460
2006        86%              8,834,000                7,597,240
2005        83%              8,777,000                7,284,910
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
@Mr Bill - I don't know what "Struttin' naked towards eternity" means - but I like it.
P.S. Afraid to Google it, just in case something nasty comes up (no pun intended).
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Mr Bill said:
I decided to look into the occupancy rate/number of people staying in rooms issue and it is true that more people were staying on property in 2012 than 2011 despite the occupancy rate dropping from 82% to 81%. Disney uses "available room nights" as a measurement, the number of rooms available multiplied by the number of days in the year.
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At the 2012 earnings conference call (November 8, 2012), Jay Rasulo stated:
Average per room spending at our domestic hotels was up 8%. The increase in per room spending was driven by higher pricing and higher merchandise spending. Occupancy at our domestic hotels was down three percentage points to 78% due to an increase in available rooms at Walt Disney World. The increase in available room nights was driven by the completion of the final phase of Disney’s Art of Animation hotel.

So far this quarter, domestic hotel reservations are pacing up mid single-digits compared to prior year levels, while booked rates are also up.
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unkadug

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Mr Bill said:
I decided to look into the occupancy rate/number of people staying in rooms issue and it is true that more people were staying on property in 2012 than 2011 despite the occupancy rate dropping from 82% to 81%. Disney uses "available room nights" as a measurement, the number of rooms available multiplied by the number of days in the year.

Here's the numbers pulled from the company's annual reports. Keep in mind that Disney only separates the parks and resorts by domestic and international, so these numbers also include Disneyland, not just WDW.

Code: 
Year        Occupancy        Available Room Nights    Room Nights Booked
2012        81%              9,850,000                7,978,500
2011        82%              9,625,000                7,892,500
2010        82%              9,629,000                7,895,780
2009        87%              8,732,000                7,596,840
2008        90%              8,566,000                7,709,400
2007        89%              8,614,000                7,666,460
2006        86%              8,834,000                7,597,240
2005        83%              8,777,000                7,284,910
Click to expand...

How convenient that they only build hotels in exactly 1000 room increments.
 

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