So ... news and rumors?

pheneix

Well-Known Member
I have to side with Steve on this one, (using a popular idea to revitalize a dead area, and in turn exposing guests to essentially what was there all along, both thematically and edutainment-wise), but then again I'm not an Epcot purist.

Yeah, except that when you study guest flow in the building guests still aren't viewing the animal exhibits. They go in, ride the ride, maybe see Turtle Talk, and leave. The other features of the building barely see a fraction of the activity.

I don't get it. The Sea World parks are more attended than some of Disney's parks on both coasts and they don't have to rely on cartoon characters to keep the turnstyles spinning. Maybe Disney guests are lazier...
 

MousDad

New Member
Yeah, except that when you study guest flow in the building guests still aren't viewing the animal exhibits. They go in, ride the ride, maybe see Turtle Talk, and leave. The other features of the building barely see a fraction of the activity.

True, or not true, depending on how you look at it. 100% of the people who ride Nemo are viewing the animal exhibits. I would guess that 90-95% who see Turtle Talk are as well. Those are an integral (and hard to miss) part of the queue.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
True, or not true, depending on how you look at it. 100% of the people who ride Nemo are viewing the animal exhibits. I would guess that 90-95% who see Turtle Talk are as well. Those are an integral (and hard to miss) part of the queue.

Touche.... ;)

What I was referring to were the exhibits on the 2nd level (the aquarium viewing, manatees, etc.)
 

TarzanRocked99-

Well-Known Member
I love to bash Phil -- and he certainly deserves it as no MK VP has ever been in charge when so many bad choices have been made and so much damage has been done -- but I have to say I don't quite understand the CoP moving to where MILF is comment.

You must mean a different concept for CoP was proposed to move there since it would have made no sense and been impossible to move the show as is into the Circlevision building.

Am I missing something?

The plan as I understood it at that time was to relocate the COP into the then Timekeeper (seasonal at the time) attraction. If you recall the building it was in was at that time referred to as Tomorrowlands Metro Retro Historical Society Building. The relocation was being looked at because they wanted at the time to free up a large chunk of space in Tomorrowland and by removing the current COP building and the Galaxy Palace Theater and the old Skyway building they would be able to do that. They wanted to preserve COP becuase its considered one of the few "Walt" attractions in Florida, but also wanted to make it a bit more relevant to where it was located. The thought was move it to the Timekeeper building and make an entrance on the Main Street Side for the attraction and then the exit on the Tomorrowland side. It would have created a great transition between the two lands and made it fit better Thematically. The plan sounded great, but alas never happened.

And on the Phil thing, the guy is absolutly self serving and could care less about doing whats best for the park, its all bottom line for him.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
Yeah, except that when you study guest flow in the building guests still aren't viewing the animal exhibits. They go in, ride the ride, maybe see Turtle Talk, and leave. The other features of the building barely see a fraction of the activity.

I don't get it. The Sea World parks are more attended than some of Disney's parks on both coasts and they don't have to rely on cartoon characters to keep the turnstyles spinning. Maybe Disney guests are lazier...

According to all the numbers, Sea World doesn't even come close to matching Disney's lowest park attendance figures, at DCA. Perhaps it is because they don't have any cartoon characters. I would be curious were these numbers came from, if you have a factual source.

Continuing on, people coming into the pavilion and seeing a bit might just hook some people to stay in who might have never approached the pavilion before. I have no problem with Epcot character overlays, just as I have no problem with character overlays in other parks. DHS has gotten out of control, however, in that they have lost the entertainment educational aspect to that park's attractions. This isn't even close to happeneing at Epcot yet.
 

kcnole

Well-Known Member
So much of WDW's budget goes to running the entire resort. As you know, DL is so tiny in comparison, a much larger portion of it's budget can go towards the parks.

Its not like these hotels and more things on the resort are being run as loss leaders. Each one of them is required to turn a profit. Part of the problem at WDW however is that the resort has gotten too big, too spread out, which makes maintenance resort wide a major pain.
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Even better, I was just told the other day that the most common words heard during Lassater and Co.'s recent visit were:

"Are we doing something about this?"
and
"What is the plan here?".

This makes me feel a bit better, but only if Lassater will follow up on it. He is one of the few voices really calling for the parks to be done as they should. He has too much on his plate, but I hope he can at least make enough noise to get someone at WDW to start focusing on fixing all these various issues that are going on.

Whatever purists think of it, Nemo totally turned around the Seas pavilion and made it into a pavilion that people WANT to go into. You cant say that before. The years before Nemo were desperate for Seas attendance. They totally turned it around. You sometimes have to remember that these attractions need to appeal to the masses, not a small group of us that debate what does and doesnt belong in Epcot.

Sure, the Nemo ride is fun. I enjoy it. But its not how it should be done. It was good enough (and while I agree that it works better than the multimillion dollar subs ride) it still isn't how it should have been. I'll be honest, while I am an EPCOT Center purist, I don't mind Nemo being used in that facility. But he should be used to educate. Granted, there's education going on inside the facility, but the ride itself is nothing more than a brief cartoon. Had they found a way to have Nemo educating us about the oceans it would still have been lots of fun for the kids and maybe we could have learned something at the same time.

There's an old quote from Walt that says:

"Adults are interested if you don't play down to the little 2 or 3 year olds or talk down. I don't believe in talking down to children. I don't believe in talking down to any certain segment. I like to kind of just talk in a general way to the audience. Children are always reaching."

I really wish that WDI would design with this quote in mind. Its obvious that Nemo doesn't meet that standard and I don't think Walt would be happy. That ride obviously talks down to the children. I remember as a child being fascinated with EPCOT, maybe I was just different, but I was always reaching for higher heights, wanting to learn more, and EPCOT inspired me to continue to grow and seek and learn, its why I'm so sad to see the move away from EPCOT to just another entertainment place. It used to be so much more. Granted, some things were too serious (the intro film for the seas bores me to tears still today), but you don't have to sacrifice all the learning just to do entertainment a bit better.
 

jaredliu

Active Member
Oh come on! Now thats shown your true colors! You've just confirmed you are just hell bent on bashing WDW at any possible chance. Aquatica is a GREAT park! Bare metal, off the shelf water slides into a pool. That makes a great park does it? You have such high expectations of WDW, and yet you would classify Aquatica as "great".
Wow. Now thats shown your ture colors! You are just so mad about people critizing your beloved WDW that you automatically assume he/she is just trying to be a basher.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Wow. Now thats shown your ture colors! You are just so mad about people critizing your beloved WDW that you automatically assume he/she is just trying to be a basher.

I have to disagree. wdw74 seems to have an axe to grind beyond just wanting improvements at WDW. However he has made some good points and definitely has good information even if it's overstated at times. I don't think Steve gets "mad". He is really tolerant of reasoned discussion but not so much for groundless attacks like yours :lookaroun
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
My recommendation to you is for you and your family to pull back on going to WDW or if yuo must go at least cut down on buying things at the resort. Please tell your friends to do the same. This will help the company in the long run.
Since we are DVC members we are sort of stuck, in a sense. I wonder if specific complaints would help. Think about it, how many people actually go to City Hall and complain about rotting wood, dirty bathrooms, unimaginative attractions, or chipped paint.(I am not necessarily saying that this is the case because I am not thoroughly convinced yet) Some of these things are very subjective and so it would take a lot of complaining before a consensus "that something is wrong" could be made. I am trying to think of it from how I approach problems at work. One complaint about something does not necessarily throw up a red flag for me. Several complaints about the same thing tells me that something is definitely wrong.
Its not like these hotels and more things on the resort are being run as loss leaders. Each one of them is required to turn a profit. Part of the problem at WDW however is that the resort has gotten too big, too spread out, which makes maintenance resort wide a major pain.


This makes me feel a bit better, but only if Lassater will follow up on it. He is one of the few voices really calling for the parks to be done as they should. He has too much on his plate, but I hope he can at least make enough noise to get someone at WDW to start focusing on fixing all these various issues that are going on.



Sure, the Nemo ride is fun. I enjoy it. But its not how it should be done. It was good enough (and while I agree that it works better than the multimillion dollar subs ride) it still isn't how it should have been. I'll be honest, while I am an EPCOT Center purist, I don't mind Nemo being used in that facility. But he should be used to educate. Granted, there's education going on inside the facility, but the ride itself is nothing more than a brief cartoon. Had they found a way to have Nemo educating us about the oceans it would still have been lots of fun for the kids and maybe we could have learned something at the same time.

There's an old quote from Walt that says:



I really wish that WDI would design with this quote in mind. Its obvious that Nemo doesn't meet that standard and I don't think Walt would be happy. That ride obviously talks down to the children. I remember as a child being fascinated with EPCOT, maybe I was just different, but I was always reaching for higher heights, wanting to learn more, and EPCOT inspired me to continue to grow and seek and learn, its why I'm so sad to see the move away from EPCOT to just another entertainment place. It used to be so much more. Granted, some things were too serious (the intro film for the seas bores me to tears still today), but you don't have to sacrifice all the learning just to do entertainment a bit better.
I really like that. I was eight years old when Epcot opened and probably around ten or so when seas opened. I really did not have a huge grasp on the challenges and mysteries of deep sea exploration in the world but I was curious to find out more. Sure, Crush may have been amusing to me as a kid had he been there originally, but he would not have challenged me much.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Wow....this is kinda troubling to me. Something must have changed.

I haven't been out to DL since late '06 (going next year for sure), and I distinctly remember noticing, as did my wife, that everything was much cleaner and better kept than at WDW.

Granted, I'm at WDW at least monthly so I may be a bit more critical there. However, DL certainly did make me think "This is how a Disney park should be."

Curious.....

I visit DLR weekly, and have been doing so for years. I was also fascinated by all this "grafitti" that was mentioned by wdwmagic, as I've never noticed it before.

Then reading this thread and waiting for examples we've gotten two items; scratches (initials?) in the little silver discs attached to the wall plumbing above mens urinals in bathrooms, and a black sharpie pen that was apparently used by some kid to write something 10 inches by 6 inches on the tile wall in a bathroom in DCA.

For the life of me I can never remember ever seeing black sharpie pen on a wall anywhere at Disneyland. The bathroom at WalMart, yes, but not at Disneyland. I don't doubt that it didn't happen and that wdwmagic didn't see it when he was in Anaheim, but we don't know how long it was up there. Did it appear an hour before he arrived, and then was scrubbed clean that night on third shift? That would seem to be the likely scenario from my weekly experience with how clean and well kept the DLR tends to be.

If wdwmagic wants to let us know which bathroom this grafitti was seen in, I'd be happy to go check it out this evening and report back. My hunch is that it will have been long gone. :wave:
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
WDW really needs an advocate and they don't have it.

Hell, can you imagine if Al Lutz lived in Orlando and blogged about that resort?

Yeah, that would have Inoverherheadmeg under the bed in the fetal position.

I've never understood why WDW has no one like Al Lutz. Jim Hill tries, but he's stuck up in a cabin in New Hampshire and his sources never seem to be as good as Al's.

The Internet coverage for WDW seems to be so pandering to management, happily lapping up the latest Disney media party where a few Bloggers are invited to stand at the back of the room and have some cheese cubes with the guy from the Orlando Sentinel.

With the rare exception of threads like this, where you are left weeding through thousands of words to get one or two interesting tidbits, the online coverage of WDW seems to consist solely of mind-numbing discussions about dining plan logistics, refillable mugs, or more DVC timeshares being built in a swamp.

WDW needs an Al Lutz to get the real juicy gossip and show that the drone executives in Team Disney are really only as clued in as the talking points on their teleprompters. :lol:
 

Lee

Adventurer
I've never understood why WDW has no one like Al Lutz. Jim Hill tries, but he's stuck up in a cabin in New Hampshire and his sources never seem to be as good as Al's.

I've been trying for a couple years to put together a web of sources that can provide constant, accurate information like Lutz gets but at WDW. If I could get it together I would have a blog going in seconds.
Sadly, my sources are sporadic and much more reluctant than Al's to spill real dirt.
Still looking, though....any volunteers out there?;)
 

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