Slash and Burn ...

[tirian]

More importantly than any of this other stuff:

Merry Christmas! :xmas: :wave:

I shall quote myself again.

(And I've seen kids crying on Dumbo, so...)

 

[unkadug]

I like to think that the selections of rides at a park are like the colors on a painter's palette. And to make a good piece of art work, there must be plenty of contrast. And that's what AE brought to the magic kingdom. It was a bit of radical contrast that prevented older guests like teens feel less alienated by the kid friendly atmosphere of thepark. I think it worked wonderfully.

Besides, I've seen plenty of kids come off the haunted mansion screaming and crying too.

Or even Snow White for that matter.

 

[Lee]

I'll ALWAYS think that (has much as it pains me too) Alien Encounter closing was a very smart decision.

I disagree.
WDW spent in excess of $15 million to remake AE into Stitch. The result: lower attendance and worse guest satisfaction.
That, in my opinion was a HUGE waste of time and funds.

You aren't seriously proposing that park planning rely on guests not checking their brains at the gate, are you?

Seriously?

I mean, you've seen these people in the park, right?

I do propose something of the sort. A little common sense goes a long way.
Just because some people are so determined to get their kid on every attraction (AE and coasters for example) and end up scaring them to death is no excuse for dumbing down the park.

 

[1disneydood]

AE should have had a taller height restriction, or a test... A CM in a scary mask would jump out at kids in the dark and snap a chicken bone next to their ear, while another hidden CM would come up from behind and lick the back of the kid's neck while breathing heavy. If they couldn't take it, they couldn't ride. :shrug:

If they liked it too much :sohappy:, they were then given a coupon to HHN. :wave:

 

[RSoxNo1]

Even having the cast member at the greeter location warning guests that go in with young children.

 

[Figments Friend]

AE should have had a taller height restriction, or a test... A CM in a scary mask would jump out at kids in the dark and snap a chicken bone next to their ear, while another hidden CM would come up from behind and lick the back of the kid's neck while breathing heavy. If they couldn't take it, they couldn't ride. :shrug:

If they liked it too much :sohappy:, they were then given a coupon to HHN. :wave:

Ha ha ha..! One has to wonder how they would select the CM that would do the 'licking back of neck' role....

...draw straws?

:lol:

 

[Brian Noble]

I do propose something of the sort. A little common sense goes a long way.

And how do you suggest that Disney impart said common sense? The big brightly colored signs that said "This will scare the bejeezus out of your kids" didn't work...

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Alien Encounter was awesome, but it HAD to go. Anyone here who worked attractions at ANY park during AE's run can easily tell you that at most attractions like Star Tours or Haunted Mansion would get at least two kids a day who REFUSED to ride ANY attraction. Even things like Muppets and Small World. It became standard that the question you should ask the parents was "Was Alien Encounter the first thing you took him/her on?" 9 out of 10 times it was. ENTIRE family vacations were being ruined by a dark and bloody attraction in the middle of Magic Kingdom.

I'm with you. Contrast and variety are great, but I'm not holding my breath for MK to "mix things up a little" with a vampire fetish S&M club, war crimes autopsy museum or history of torture pavilion.

Extreme examples? Absolutely. But some themes and some means of presentation are intended solely for mature audiences, and AE was one. Doesn't make them vile, but it does make them out of place in a location that markets itself as the "kid safe" vacation destination.

I also don't think blaming parents cuts it. Disney and the Magic Kingdom are strongly established brands with certain implicit promises that any "mature" content will be presented in a way that most youngsters can stomach. AE broke those promises. In my mind, a few signs can't override the strong assumptions of kid safety people carry into a Disney trip: "Oh, safe, wholesome Disney thinks this could scare some kids. Must have a couple of creepy cardboard monsters popping out. Good old Disney, looking out for the most susceptible, easily frightened children. Well, my Georgie made it through Snow White OK, so this will be fine for him."

I guarantee a lot of parents who dragged their kids into that show weren't dumb, or negligent, or illiterate. They were conditioned by Disney itself to believe that there were certain lines the company wouldn't cross, and downplayed the warnings because of the image Disney has spent almost a century trying to project. AE just didn't fit with what Disney wants people to believe they represent, and I don't think any level of brilliance in its design could ever change that.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

And the cotton wooling over protection continues, no wonder psychiatry is so popular.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

Nice post, Travis.

I think AE added to the overall Thrill factor of MK. The more I think about it, I wish it were in DHS, though not sure of where/how it would fit.

Well, if I remember right, development of AE originally came out of plans for an attraction based on the movie Alien.

 

[jt04]

Well, if I remember right, development of AE originally came out of plans for an attraction based on the movie Alien.

And Alien is still owned by Fox.

But a similar ride could be adapted to DHS if it were themed as a 1950's Sci-Fi "B" movie.

I am not sure Disney will ever venture into creating that intense of a ride again.

But judging from "Revenge" at Universal, Uni just might. By the way, aren't The Simpsons a Fox property too?

 

[Horizonsfan]

And Alien is still owned by Fox.

The movies are. The theme park attraction rights? Those belong to Disney. All that's ever been done with them was the Alien scene in GMR.

 

[culturenthrills]

I also don't think blaming parents cuts it. Disney and the Magic Kingdom are strongly established brands with certain implicit promises that any "mature" content will be presented in a way that most youngsters can stomach. AE broke those promises.

So you are saying they should take out Indiana Jones at DL. Because DL is a Magic Kingdom and Indiana Jones is scary and intense so therefore it shouldn't be in a magic kingdom.

 

[EpcotServo]

So you are saying they should take out Indiana Jones at DL. Because DL is a Magic Kingdom and Indiana Jones is scary and intense so therefore it shouldn't be in a magic kingdom.

Last time I checked, Indiana Jones Adventure didn't have a guy's blood splatter over the guests...

 

[Wilt Dasney]

So you are saying they should take out Indiana Jones at DL. Because DL is a Magic Kingdom and Indiana Jones is scary and intense so therefore it shouldn't be in a magic kingdom.

No sir...I isn't saying that.

Plenty of stuff can be considered "scary and intense" by some standard. I'd be willing to bet that every single Disney attraction has scared some kid, for some season. Obviously saying anything that might scare anybody has to be removed would result in...well, I was going to say a bunch of Winnie-the-Pooh meet & greets, but heck, I'm sure some kids are terrified of those freaky characters, so even that would be out.

AE was in a class of its own. It was designed to scare the crap out of not just kids, but people of any age with active imaginations and a fear of the dark. I know plenty of people will disagree, but I don't think it even existed to tell a story...the entire narrative was window dressing for an experience intended to scare the $hit out of as many people as possible. (Which is fine, by the way...but it doesn't belong at Mickey's Magical Kingdom. Not because it offended my delicate sensibilities, but because it violated the premise of what MK is advertised as being.)

But I digress. Because inspiring abject terror was its primary goal, I just don't think AE compared to any other attraction out there that happens to have some strong thematic elements (like snakes, cannon fire or spooky spirits) to add to the "thrill" factor. It's apples and kumquats, as far as I'm concerned.

I know my opinion isn't the only one out there, but...well, I'm rather attached to it myself, so I suppose I'll stick with it until I come across a better one.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

And Alien is still owned by Fox.

The movies are. The theme park attraction rights? Those belong to Disney. All that's ever been done with them was the Alien scene in GMR.

That's right. The whole genesis of Alien Encounter came out of Imagineering looking to develop attractions for movie properties they acquired the rights to because of Disney-MGM/Great Movie Ride. First a Buzz Lightyear-style shoot-'em-up ride through the Nostromo was considered, and then evolved into a theater-style show, and finally, if I remember right, lost the Alien alien around the same time George Lucas came onboard with the project and became its own thing not tied to the movie franchise in any fashion. The Alien movies were deemed too scary to be associated with the Magic Kingdom.

 

[DisneyCane]

So you are saying they should take out Indiana Jones at DL. Because DL is a Magic Kingdom and Indiana Jones is scary and intense so therefore it shouldn't be in a magic kingdom.

Disneyland is a little different. First, the two parks are "Disneyland" and "Disney's California Adventure". The "Disneyland" park has to be more encompassing because for a very long time it was the only park there.

It's not like WDW where you have Magic Kingdom geared more towards younger kids, Epcot towards older kids and adults, MGM and AK that are better for teens with the thrill rides.

That said, two things on this topic.

1) With regard for Alien Encounter, it was a love it or hate it ride whatever park it would have been in. Myself and everybody I knew thought it was incredibly stupid and pointless and honestly enjoyed Mission to Mars more because at least the effects were funny.

2) With regard to the projects on hold/budget cuts. One thing you have to realize is that Disney finances the major capital projects. They don't just plunk down a check for $100 Million for Expedition Everest. The finance it and pay it off over 10, 15 or 20 years. It's the only way major spending makes sense to a corporation's cash flow. The rewards of building something expensive are designed to be reaped over many years so the company wants to pay for it over many years.

With credit being so tight out there, I'm sure Disney is having trouble securing large sum financing for some of these projects. Of course, the Disney company has a great credit rating but banks and financial institutions can't be sure how the economy will effect Disney. Since the lenders are all being so risk averse, Disney will have to show how the financials turn out through the recession before the financing flood gates will open again to them.

 

[Lee]

(Which is fine, by the way...but it doesn't belong at Mickey's Magical Kingdom. Not because it offended my delicate sensibilities, but because it violated the premise of what MK is advertised as being.)

THAT'S what I have a problem with. It's that kind of thinking, that MK is mostly for kids, that is ruining that park. It's turning into a character-laden, kid-centric bore. It get's us terrible attractions like Stitch.
Space Mountain has terrified many kids, and adults, to the point where they have left the park for the day. Doesn't mean the ride shouldn't be there. That is what warning signs and height requirements are for.
The goal is, and should be, something for everyone...not everything for everyone.
Take your kid on AE and he get's freaked out? Tough. Too bad. I really don't care. I am simply unwilling to sacrifice entertainment that I enjoy and find to be unique, original, and lots of fun just because it makes some little kid cry.

It's not like WDW where you have Magic Kingdom geared more towards younger kids, Epcot towards older kids and adults, MGM and AK that are better for teens with the thrill

But that is not how it is intended. Every park is intended to have a healthy mix of attractions which range from family friendly, to too thrilling for some. If you look closely at the attractions in each park, you'll see that the ratio is fairly stready. Disney doesn't want that impression (different parks for different demographics), and doesn't advertise it that way.

 

[MousDad]

It's not like WDW where you have Magic Kingdom geared more towards younger kids, Epcot towards older kids and adults, MGM and AK that are better for teens with the thrill rides.

Not only do I not think this is the way it should be, I also dont think that this is the way it is, period. All 4 parks are geared towards all age groups, with Epcot being the most successfully balanced, and the other 3 about equal.

 

[culturenthrills]

But that is not how it is intended. Every park is intended to have a healthy mix of attractions which range from family friendly, to too thrilling for some. If you look closely at the attractions in each park, you'll see that the ratio is fairly stready. Disney doesn't want that impression (different parks for different demographics), and doesn't advertise it that way.

Unfortunately with the current state of the Magic Kingdom at WDW people seem to forget that the parks and all Disney parks are meant to be enjoyed by the whole family. They have so dumb downed the experience at MK that no wonder people look at it as a kids park. I love MK but it breaks my heart to see how stale, blah and generic it has become. People seem to forget for a time that many people thought it was superior to Disneyland. Not anymore. The current management is slowly sucked alot of the things that used to make that park unique. The magic is still there but they keep cutting and cutting. Entertainment is a joke in that park. It barely has any and is pretty much non existent after 5-6 pm. No I am not counting the parades or fireworks. But Spectromagic needs to go. With all the advances in LED's could you imagine what a new light parade would look like with todays technology? Wishes is great but if you are gonna kill the Pirate and Princess Parties for good how bout add Magic, Music and Mayhem for the summertime or do the Pirate and Princess parade at night and promote the whole thing as a special summer event to get more people to come out and hey it will push even more summer merchandise. It used to be really cool that they had some new event every year but you actually got a new parade not just the same recycled crap over and over again. And don't get me started about the parties.