People Seem Jaded About Disney World in General

[dopeylover]

Yes. And we've also had multiple discussions on the best resort, Disney Dining Plan, favorite attractions, best park, etc. On an open forum such as this, not everyone is around long enough to participate in all the discussions or understands how to use the tools to find similarly themed discussions in the past. It looks like the OP is relatively new. Just like I've answered "What's Port Orleans Riverside like?" (for example) a dozen times, I'm going to chime in when someone posts a thread titled "People Seem Jaded About Disney World in General".

You're completely right. I guess I was just trying to avoid another 40+ page discussion, which means I could just avoid this altogether. But now I want to add my two cents! Here's my thing on the whole topic of 'quality of the parks' and 'people being too jaded', etc. I don't think I'm an apologist, as I can absolutely see the valid points some people bring up about the state of the parks and the prices we pay, etc. Some of the 'magic' is lost, but I honestly believe it's only really lost to people like us, not someone who maybe goes to WDW maybe 2 or 3 times in their lives, which are really the average. Does that make it Ok? No.

But THIS is what irritates me the most, and I am honestly, truly, swear on my next trip not trying to start trouble. What irritates me is that we have the same discussions over and over (and @ParentsOf4 I agree and get what you're saying), and people complain about the parks, how awful they are, how the upper management of WDC are bumbling conspiratorial fools with no idea as to what to do. In the next breath, I see the same people posting another thread about how they just booked their 12th trip of the year! (exaggeration, obviously). I am not saying, 'If you don't like it, don't go.' Some of these people will retort that WDC has people look at these forums and that is one of the reasons they voice their opinion on here, and I know that they do, and I know you have every right to voice your opinion. But here's the thing: As we've just discussed, we have had several posts about the state of the parks and whatnot, and still nothing has changed. Sometimes I think people think that if they complain enough in here, some tech guy at Disney is going to go into a meeting and say,"Ok guys, there have been 8,000 posts about the Yeti and our napkin situation, we really have to do something." I don't believe that is going to happen, because it hasn't yet! WDW is a business, and they will respond the way businesses do. They will REALLY respond when it hits their pocketbooks, and they respond to individual complaints as best they can. IMHO, WDW still surpasses any other vacation experience I've had thus far, warts and all. Am I saying don't complain or discuss on here? NO! Do it all you want (I do!)...but an even better thing to do would be to complain directly to the people you're upset with. Why not discuss on here, and then write a letter to WDC about your recent trip, how disappointed you are in the state of the parks, etc. Will one person change it? Probably not, but it's much more effective, and the more people that do it, the more they will see how you feel. If you're truly, truly unhappy, decrease your visits, sell your stock. My point is, you have to hit where it counts. I'm not saying any one single person is this way, but I have very little tolerance in life for people who complain and then don't do anything to try and fix the issue.

As for the higher ups at Disney, I do get irritated when people act like their bumbling idiots. They are extremely successful business people, and I don't doubt for a second that they know everything that has gone downhill in the parks. I would hope they have a plan of action, as most businesses do, and WDC is a very smart business. I do truly think they believe that the very best product and treating your customers right is the only way to do business. Here's where I agree with the naysayers- the status quo in this world of what is 'quality' what is 'right' what is good customer service has gone down so tremendously everywhere, it is now the norm. I think WDC has taken advantage of this downhill spiral in society to still be above par in comparison to other theme park experiences, but not where they used to be. To this I say, Shame to you! Seriously, I think it does stink they have taken that approach, but I don't think we'll see much in the way of change until it really starts to hurt them. Do they have the money to fix all these things? Yes, and then some. But they see people still paying up the wazoo to come see the newest benches at Fantasmic, so why change? I mean this from a business perspective, not as a WDW fan. If I had it my way, it would be gleaming and shiny and pretty and new every time I went, like we all want it.

 

[ParentsOf4]

As for the higher ups at Disney, I do get irritated when people act like their bumbling idiots. They are extremely successful business people, and I don't doubt for a second that they know everything that has gone downhill in the parks. I would hope they have a plan of action, as most businesses do, and WDC is a very smart business. I do truly think they believe that the very best product and treating your customers right is the only way to do business.

Please be aware that the business world is full of examples of companies that were "too big to fail" (sound familiar?), lead by management who were paid millions while laying off thousands, cutting corners, driving away customers. Don't assume they are not a bunch of "bumbling idiots" just because they collect million dollar compensation packages. Most businesses decline because leadership becomes complacent and focuses on short-term gains rather than long-term growth, something that's happening today at WDW. The basic business model for amusement parks hasn't changed; people need a constant stream of new attractions in order to be willing to return. It appears TDO thought they were smarter than that by cutting corners, offering "Free Dining", and building more DVC. It appears only now that the error is being recognized within TWDC management.

Also be aware that in the 1980s, TWDC frequently was identified as the "Gold Standard" when it came to excellence and customer service; something that all good business leaders should strive to replicate. It's been a long time since I last attended a seminar where TWDC was cited as an example of excellence.

 

[dopeylover]

Please be aware that the business world is full of examples of companies that were "too big to fail" (sound familiar?), lead by management who were paid millions while laying off thousands, cutting corners, driving away customers. Don't assume they are not a bunch of "bumbling idiots" just because they collect million dollar compensation packages. Most businesses decline because leadership becomes complacent and focuses on short-term gains rather than long-term growth, something that's happening today at WDW. The basic business model for amusement parks hasn't changed; people need a constant stream of new attractions in order to be willing to return. It appears TDO thought they were smarter than that by cutting corners, offering "Free Dining", and building more DVC. It appears only now that the error is being recognized within TWDC management.

Also be aware that in the 1980s, TWDC frequently was identified as the "Gold Standard" when it came to excellence and customer service; something that all good business leaders should strive to replicate. It's been a long time since I last attended a seminar where TWDC was cited as an example of excellence.

I am aware, and I think I was agreeing with a lot of what you just said.

 

[GoofGoof]

You're completely right. I guess I was just trying to avoid another 40+ page discussion, which means I could just avoid this altogether. But now I want to add my two cents! Here's my thing on the whole topic of 'quality of the parks' and 'people being too jaded', etc. I don't think I'm an apologist, as I can absolutely see the valid points some people bring up about the state of the parks and the prices we pay, etc. Some of the 'magic' is lost, but I honestly believe it's only really lost to people like us, not someone who maybe goes to WDW maybe 2 or 3 times in their lives, which are really the average. Does that make it Ok? No.

But THIS is what irritates me the most, and I am honestly, truly, swear on my next trip not trying to start trouble. What irritates me is that we have the same discussions over and over (and @ParentsOf4 I agree and get what you're saying), and people complain about the parks, how awful they are, how the upper management of WDC are bumbling conspiratorial fools with no idea as to what to do. In the next breath, I see the same people posting another thread about how they just booked their 12th trip of the year! (exaggeration, obviously).

I think you hit a good point here. In my short time here I have definitely observed a direct correlation between number of days spent at WDW in a year and dissatisfaction. I am not saying that all people who tend to visit for multiple weeks a year are disgruntled, that is definitely not true, but the most vocal critics are almost all frequent visitors. I think that if you are a few times in your life visitor you are just so happy to be there and have no point of reference to compare to. Same goes for someone like me who goes about twice every 3 years. When I get back it may have been 18 months+ since my last visit. I am so happy to be there and everything seems fresh and new. That is probably also why I dont remember every ride effect that is missing. The parades are a perfect example too. I see them maybe once every 2 years so they seem more fresh. Someone who goes 3 times a year may see the same parade 6 times between my trips. I can see how it could get boring. I am not denying that there are issues and a decline in some areas, but I probably don't notice as many issues as I would if I went back more often. I am also in denial to some extent.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I have been going, almost yearly since 1983. What I am about to say is my opinion and mine only...others can agree or disagree. The point is not to have a winner here.

In my opinion, if you have been going to WDW for as long as I have, you would have to be completely unaware of your surroundings to even consider the idea that it has fallen into disrepair. It is so much nicer now then it was in the 80's. Not only that but it has so many more things to do then there was back then. There are more places to stay, more attractions, by probably triple or more. Technology is so much better and considering the age of some of the buildings that have been sitting in the Florida humidity all these years, in amazingly good condition.

They didn't stay that way because they were left to rot. Some of the attractions are 40 years old and have been running everyday for all those years. Because of that there might be a slight increase in the times that they breakdown, but I have never seen it. That doesn't make me an apologist, that makes me a person that asked the question...what are you seeing that I am not?

Someone mentioned someplace a bench that had a chip in it, back in the day. They said that the next day it was taken care of, problem gone. Are you sure that doesn't still happen? I don't go to the parks everyday, over and over again, but I know that I wouldn't be able to note if a small thing like that was carried over from one day to the next and even if it was...I would know that there aren't enough people to take care of every thing that happens immediately. And I know enough or am realistic enough to know that if they did have a staff that size just standing by waiting for a chip of paint to peel, we wouldn't have anything but a closed, once glorious theme park, to wish we still had to go to, chips or not.

And look what happened this past year when they shrouded the Bakery on Main Street in an effort to make repairs to one of those building that everyone claims they are ignoring. You could hear the whining clear across the country. Boo Hoo...I can't see the castle anymore. Boo Hoo...How long is that unacceptable eyesore going to be there. Come on Disney your ruining my vacation here. Fix things just make sure I don't have to see it. Or how about the uproar that came about when 20K was replaced with a Pooh playground. How could they do that? Then a huge expansion of Fantasyland comes into being and OMG, do we have to look at that wall for 3 years? You're ruining my vacation, Disney.

Oh, and Uni is spending 1.5 Billion to upgrade. Disney loses again! Well, Uni would have to spend 1.5 billion just to be equal with three of Disney's four parks, not to mention, water parks, golf courses, resorts, restaurants, transportation systems and other services. So people can talk about how terrible the current situation is, I still don't see it. It's not even like I haven't been looking. I have been on different boards for years and because of it, I have become more and more conscience of this situation...I still don't see it. Lucky me!

 

[ParentsOf4]

Or how about the uproar that came about when 20K was replaced with a Pooh playground. How could they do that? Then a huge expansion of Fantasyland comes into being and OMG, do we have to look at that wall for 3 years?

Thanks for the post. Just one comment on the above. 20K closed in 1994. Fantasyland went 18 years without a replacement attraction. TWDC has built (I'm sorry, use to build before Iger took over) entire theme parks in considerably less time than it took to replace 20K.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Thanks for the post. Just one comment on the above. 20K closed in 1994. Fantasyland went 18 years without a replacement attraction. TWDC has built (I'm sorry, use to build before Iger took over) entire theme parks in considerably less time than it took to replace 20K.

That I totally agree with. Way too much time passed on that reaction. But now we have many empty attractions and I don't blame it necessarily on money. My suspicions fall toward the lack of sufficient imagination on the part of the Disney staff. I'm thinking they are unable to think of new things to do with it.

 

[GoofGoof]

That I totally agree with. Way too much time passed on that reaction. But now we have many empty attractions and I don't blame it necessarily on money. My suspicions fall toward the lack of sufficient imagination on the part of the Disney staff. I'm thinking they are unable to think of new things to do with it.

I think it's more of a money thing. The imagineers have plenty of ideas. Getting them green lit is the challenge.

 

[asianway]

I think it's more of a money thing. The imagineers have plenty of ideas. Getting them green lit is the challenge.

Money and capacity. They have industrial engineered magic(tm) by coming up with the exact amount of "stuff" available to do and keep everyone busy, this is the goal of FP+. Imagination doesn't need FP.... I know he's not on good terms here, but merf has posted numerous times about how Epcot purposely cut capacity in the 90s.

 

[bubbles1812]

That I totally agree with. Way too much time passed on that reaction. But now we have many empty attractions and I don't blame it necessarily on money. My suspicions fall toward the lack of sufficient imagination on the part of the Disney staff. I'm thinking they are unable to think of new things to do with it.

I respect your opinions Goofyernmost, even if I don't usually agree with them. But to your last sentence, I'd have to say a really do disagree. Management has shown time and again via numerous multitudes of cost cuttings measures...even right down to removing Disney logos from napkins, and how very very slow they are to approve major projects that don't involve DVC that it is always about the money. There are plenty of ideas at WDI but as GoofGoof said, they have a heck of a time getting greenlit.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I totally get where you folks are coming from. My question is, is it truly in disrepair or do we look at our childhood memories through rose colored glasses?

It's really in the state of disrepair it's in. Look no further than Martin's list (though that is only a very partial part of the problems). I can myself pinpoint all the things that have become broken and fallen into disrepair, things that I remember full well were NEVER a problem over 15 years ago. Again, if this was just something nostalgia could never live up to then that would be fair. But the cuts are very obvious and have been well-documented by people who have witnessed this decline over the years. Even people who were reasonable adults already back then, not just kids that have grown up with inflated nostalgia goggles.

I didn't disregard problems Disney attractions had back then either. I remember full well that attractions would randomly break down or stop. But back then, breakdowns were pretty much the extent of the issues that Disney attractions suffered from at the time. What shouldn't happen is for blatant and serious show problems to remain unaddressed for years or even decades because management is simply too stingy and thinks "they're idiots, we don't have to address this". You would not find glaring show issues like the ones Martin mentioned. And if a ride had any issues, they were quickly and efficiently dealt with. But again, these few issues were usually related to breakdowns, not unaddressed show elements that remained broken or switched off for years.

This isn't just about attractions you experienced a long time ago either and are comparing them 10 years down the road. To this day things continue to decline gradually but steadily at WDW. I visited WDW for an extended amount of time from 2010-2011 while waiting for a new home purchase to go through. I actually witnessed a good many show elements being removed or disabled on a number of attractions just within that time. Literally one day something works and the next it didn't. Splash Mountain is a prime example of this. When I first started going in 2010 there were at least a couple of water features still functioning at the Laughing Place. By now they have pretty much all been turned off. That's not nostalgia talking, it's something I witnessed being removed over the course of just a few days (that has yet to be fixed). Many of the maintenance problems have happened in just the past 10 years and have been well noted on these forums (like the effects on Everest for example). It's certainly not nostalgia.

 

[marni1971]

what are you seeing that I am not?

The reality without rose tinted specs? No offence. There are literally thousands of examples now. Sadly its people who can't see the woods for the trees that mean TDO hasn't had to worry in their eyes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There were people who denied that Disneyland was falling apart prior to the 50th

 

[Goofyernmost]

There were people who denied that Disneyland was falling apart prior to the 50th

Those that felt it was falling apart were also the people that said it was perfect during the 50th and that was also a rose colored glasses statement. I was there and I wasn't even looking for problems but I was completely surprised but the chunks of concrete steps missing on the way up to the train and again by massive hole in the wall (looked kicked out) in the queue going into Small World and the rusty metal pipes that were used as switchback dividers on random other rides. If this was perfect, I'm glad I didn't see it before.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The reality without rose tinted specs? No offence. There are literally thousands of examples now. Sadly its people who can't see the woods for the trees that mean TDO hasn't had to worry in their eyes.

No rose colored glasses here. I saw what I saw and frankly the early days weren't all that wonderful. They were nice but todays color schemes along with landscaping and just a generally more enjoyable trip, wonderful is now, not then. I wasn't a kid when I first went, I was 35 years old. Since I didn't know what to expect, I was tuned in to many things. I have even looked at old park pictures and felt. Wow, was it ever dull back then compared to today. No sir, the rose colored glasses that everyone speaks about were only worn back then. They were since then discarded and traded for ones with too much OLD distorted pixie dust on the lenses.

 

[awoogala]

Just going to throw my 2 cents in here on this. Bear in mind I do not visit as much as some, so my frame of reference is not as strong as many, but I do not seem to understand the anger and venom that gets spewed. If people are that unhappy than why go? Maybe that is too simplistic of a question, but I honestly am perplexed.

On the other side, I am hopeful that a company with the long record of success that Disney has, is aware of the problems in their parks/resorts, and has a priority list of what will get done and when. If they dont, then they should. I am going to assume (dangerous I know) that they are fully aware and are addressing those problems which will bring about the greatest revenue from their patrons. If the Maelstrom is a bit dated, that might not top the list of priorities as opposed to a particular series of deluxe resorts. It is truly a dollar and cents issue.

Now personally, I dont mind if certain things seem a bit worn....it is to be expected. I am hopeful that since I will be visiting in both December and again in March that there might be slight improvements. If not, it will not prohibit me from visiting again.

Rant over

I think the anger is because it means so much to some of us. I do get sad at Disney, because I want my kids to have the same sense of amazement that I had, the feeling that it was unlike anything else in the world, the fact that it inspired me to learn theater, history, to look to a beautiful tomorrow.
I am passionate about it because it kills me to see more and more effort put into princesses, meet and greets....and letting epcot, the crown jewel of dreaming and learning and inspiring, rot away and be neutered..it kills me that there is very little to educate there anymore.
I am not venomous when it comes to things being a little worn , but I do get that way when I see them ignoring the mission they had set (and accomplished).
I feel like I want them to get it together. And kick uni butt.. But they seem content with just repeating what they know will make toddlers happy, and assuming the rest of us will deal.. As they think they will lose all older kids to uni, so why bother. Irritating. Here I am, shouting, take my money! And Disney seems to be saying, they don't care.

 

[TheBeatles]

Because the JC dock was replaced since it was actually physically falling apart and was beyond life expired?
Because PotC STILL has serious audio issues?
Because Splash Mountain has more problems than I have time to list?
Because the recent BTM refurb now has less show effects than ever?
Becasue the Space Mountain refurb was destroyed by management and the attraction is getting worse?
Because the Peoplemover has minimal maintainence?
Because the CoP still thinks it is 1994?
Because Spectromagic is coming back with no enhancements?
Because Wishes had to cut pyro or cut show?
Because CADCT is using floats that are over a decade old? 25 years old for the finale float?
Because Spaceship Earth wasn't finished?
Because over half of Innoventions is empty?
Because Energy is outdated and beginnig to crumble SQ wise?
Because Wonders is relegated from an $80million guest pavilion to a corporate exhibition space?
Because Imagination is a cheap, sad shadow of its former self?
Because one of The Lands 3 attractions is stuck in 1995 and they are happy with it?
Because Seas with Nemo was produced on a shoestring budget and has lost the plot literally?
Because ROE has no plans to be upgraded after 13 years?
Because having a packed, noisy half park originally designed for fine dining and culture is a zoo of drunks each night at the moment?
Because Maelstrom needs updating?
Becuase The Spirit of Norway needs updating so they just leave the exit doors open and have guests trying to watch be disturbed? Or close the show and attempt to up park capacity when it can't cope?
Because Impressions de France needs only a quarter of its scenes reshot but they won't pay for it?
Because DHS has an identity crisis?
Because the DHS tour has hardly anything to actually show anymore?
Because DHS has umpteen empty spaces?
Because Fantasmic! Orlando is a joke compared to its refurb-laden original cousin?
Because DHS still has the worst possible place for a store blocking the view and theme of one of WDIs crowning achievements?
Because they've given up on fixing TOTs audio issues?
Because the parade in DHS is a joke compared to its namesake and managements answer to it being too short and boring was to slow its speed down to last longer?
Because DAK has an expansion crisis? Again?
Because Everest is a coaster in a building. All ride show is now missing.
Because Dinosaur has more effects broken than working?
Because DTD and PI are still up in the air, years after the proposed super plan was scrapped?

Just a few recent observations.

You forgot everything that has to do with peter pan's flight.

 

[PlaneJane]

Because the JC dock was replaced since it was actually physically falling apart and was beyond life expired?
Because PotC STILL has serious audio issues?
Because Splash Mountain has more problems than I have time to list?
Because the recent BTM refurb now has less show effects than ever?
Becasue the Space Mountain refurb was destroyed by management and the attraction is getting worse?
Because the Peoplemover has minimal maintainence?
Because the CoP still thinks it is 1994?
Because Spectromagic is coming back with no enhancements?
Because Wishes had to cut pyro or cut show?
Because CADCT is using floats that are over a decade old? 25 years old for the finale float?
Because Spaceship Earth wasn't finished?
Because over half of Innoventions is empty?
Because Energy is outdated and beginnig to crumble SQ wise?
Because Wonders is relegated from an $80million guest pavilion to a corporate exhibition space?
Because Imagination is a cheap, sad shadow of its former self?
Because one of The Lands 3 attractions is stuck in 1995 and they are happy with it?
Because Seas with Nemo was produced on a shoestring budget and has lost the plot literally?
Because ROE has no plans to be upgraded after 13 years?
Because having a packed, noisy half park originally designed for fine dining and culture is a zoo of drunks each night at the moment?
Because Maelstrom needs updating?
Becuase The Spirit of Norway needs updating so they just leave the exit doors open and have guests trying to watch be disturbed? Or close the show and attempt to up park capacity when it can't cope?
Because Impressions de France needs only a quarter of its scenes reshot but they won't pay for it?
Because DHS has an identity crisis?
Because the DHS tour has hardly anything to actually show anymore?
Because DHS has umpteen empty spaces?
Because Fantasmic! Orlando is a joke compared to its refurb-laden original cousin?
Because DHS still has the worst possible place for a store blocking the view and theme of one of WDIs crowning achievements?
Because they've given up on fixing TOTs audio issues?
Because the parade in DHS is a joke compared to its namesake and managements answer to it being too short and boring was to slow its speed down to last longer?
Because DAK has an expansion crisis? Again?
Because Everest is a coaster in a building. All ride show is now missing.
Because Dinosaur has more effects broken than working?
Because DTD and PI are still up in the air, years after the proposed super plan was scrapped?

Just a few recent observations.

 

[marni1971]

No rose colored glasses here. I saw what I saw and frankly the early days weren't all that wonderful. They were nice but todays color schemes along with landscaping and just a generally more enjoyable trip, wonderful is now, not then. I wasn't a kid when I first went, I was 35 years old. Since I didn't know what to expect, I was tuned in to many things. I have even looked at old park pictures and felt. Wow, was it ever dull back then compared to today. No sir, the rose colored glasses that everyone speaks about were only worn back then. They were since then discarded and traded for ones with too much OLD distorted pixie dust on the lenses.

Wow. Even with Worse show quality and show standards, shorter opening hours and higher prices year on year?

 

[flynnibus]

Wow. Even with Worse show quality and show standards, shorter opening hours and higher prices year on year?

you can lead a horse to water...