Numbers, Cars and Quality ...

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
There's nothing quite like the joyful sound of Lee giggling to put a person in the mood for the holidays!
xmas.gif


And every time the Spirit giggles? An angel gets his wings.
What is more joyful, Lee's giggling or Lee's singing? Maybe 74 can weigh in on this one...
 

Lee

Adventurer
What is more joyful, Lee's giggling or Lee's singing? Maybe 74 can weigh in on this one...
The giggling, trust me.
Although, I'm starting to rethink my use of the word "giggle". Seems....kinda...unmanly.
Maybe I should change it to "chortle"...
 

Pentacat

Well-Known Member
Oh the irony in the whole bring Carsland to WDW discussion.

Anaheim builds a substandard (by Disney's standard) park in CA using off the shelf rides and other "value engineered" attractions. After years of languishing attendance due to the lower show quality they decide the only way to fix the park is an enormous capital investment. Now WDW management want to try and boost their attendance numbers by building a stripped down version of the land that has turned around CA while ignoring the things that makes it so great. Personally, I'd rather them do something original than a reduced and rehashed Carsland.

It seems that upper management views WDW as some kind of monster that they are afraid to go near. As long as it still turns a profit they don't see any perceived value in actually making real changes (neh, improvements) in content or quality. When profitability looks to be narrow they just cut their way back into the black at the cost of maintenance, upkeep, front line cast member training/compensation and show quality. Yes, I know that FLE is a pleasant surprise from a quality stand point but from an attraction point of view it's not anywhere near the level of Carsland or Harry Potter.

I'm convinced that until IOA and/or USO pass up DHS AND AK in attendance numbers then there will be no concerns in the halls of Anaheim or Orlando.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
The giggling, trust me.
Although, I'm starting to rethink my use of the word "giggle". Seems....kinda...unmanly.
Maybe I should change it to "chortle"...
Oh Lee, just because school girls giggle or really weird moms with a Justin Bieber obsession giggle when they catch sight of him... well, maybe chortle is a better word after all... :D
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
If yall want WDW to change you need to start voting with your wallets. Stop going to the resort, tell your friends and families to visit universal or Disneyland instead ...

I became a theme park passholder this year for the first time in my life -- for the Busch/SeaWorld parks. I've been going to Disney parks and staying at Disney resorts for decades, and have visited every Disney park in the world, so never in a million years would I have imagined that I'd become a passholder for another company before I ever had an annual pass for Disney... but it happened.

With the cost of WDW annual passes continuing to rise even as the parks stagnate, the relative value-for-cost of a WDW pass has only continued a long but steady decline.

Although Busch/SeaWorld recently raised the price of their two-year platinum pass from $440 to $500 (if purchased at SeaWorld Orlando or Busch Gardens Tampa Bay -- it's substantially less expensive if purchased at one of their other parks), in retrospect that's still a bargain considering what you get: for $250 a year, you can visit any of ten theme parks or water parks in the country, plus have free preferred parking (at SWO, this is literally the first couple of rows away from the entrance), preferred seating at shows, free guest passes, roller coaster re-ride privileges, discounts on food and purchases, etc.

In contrast -- for my upcoming trip to WDW, $250 barely gets me a 2-day parkhopper -- obviously without free parking or discounts of any kind. And if I want to see the special holiday stuff at the MK, that's an additional (and substantial) upcharge.

Not that long ago, I would have gladly paid 10 times as much to visit a WDW park as I would have to visit SWO or even Busch Gardens Williamsburg, with their relatively limited number of quality offerings -- but things have changed dramatically. I look at all the amazing holiday stuff that many of the Busch/SeaWorld parks include now as part of the price of admission, like Halloween at BGW or SWO's Christmas celebration (the main reason I'm visiting Orlando for the second time in less than three months), and it's clear that these parks have pulled neck-and-neck -- and even surpassed WDW -- in many of the ways that are important to me, and to my wallet.

Add in the fact that SWO is continuing to impress, with their upcoming Antarctica attraction (utilizing technology similar to that of TDL's Pooh, which Disney for some reason has never brought stateside), and it's not even close.

That's not to say I no longer have any interest in Disney parks... I loved Cars Land and the new DCA when I visited this fall, and I'm eagerly anticipating a return visit to HKDL and TDR next year. When the new Ratatouille attraction opens at DSP or when SDL premieres in a few years, I'll be there. But I probably won't be back at WDW for a long time after this trip... even if I'm in town visiting a bunch of penguins just down the road.
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
but you know, again, this is why we can't have nice things. and by we, i mean WDW fans.

as i've mentioned in the splash thread, we get 50+ pages within moments of a bakery replacing one type of coffee with another. but a signature e-ticket just, ya know, falling apart? not even half the outrage.

and DHS...a month ago, it looked like it was our salvo: a shining beacon that yes, TDO hears us and is going to fix a park which, let's face it, is a thematic mess and a half day atrocity. and now what do they figure? just slap some painted sets up there what and the morons won't even notice. lovely.

i mean, seriously, guys. this is what disney thinks of us: as long as they make sure we know where to go to get our cinnamon buns, we'll shut up and be happy with what we have. and what we have, in some cases, is LITERALLY crumbling before our eyes. think about that. don't worry, i'm sure my nine gillion dollar annual pass will go right to some paper-mache mix to fix the splash rock work. i mean, seriously, what is going on here?
 

Toonfan1

Active Member
John Lasster and Tom Staggs will save Carsland from being value engineered by TDO and make hollywood studios a better Theme Park because John Lasster wants Carsland to be a Full Recreation of his beloved Cars Franschise.Tom Staggs wants Walt Disney World to be a better experince for guests that's why he revised New Fanstayland with the additions of storybook ciruis,Princess fairytale hall and Seven Dwarfs mine train and sighing a deal with James Cameron and 20th century fox to bring Avatarland to Animal Kingdom and Tom Staggs is makeing major changes to Epcot after touring Epcot with Bob Iger in 2010 where both he and Iger argeed Epcot needed a Major DCA Style makeover project.Tom Staggs greenlit Test Track 2.0,The Epcot charchear Spot re-theming and rennovantion project and a Agent P's world showchase adventrue.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
The Epcot charchear Spot re-theming and rennovantion project and a Agent P's world showchase adventrue.

And those things improved Epcot how? I could care less about meet-and-greets when Imagination! is in such a pitiful state as it is but Staggs and the rest of his cronies don't seem to be too bothered about that.
 

HenryMystic

Well-Known Member
OK, suppose for a minute that they do build Cars Land in Florida, and they majorly cheap out on it. Would it be even a moderate success, or would it be a flop?

If it is a flop, they should have no option but to conclude that it is the cheapness and the cost-cutting that destroyed it, right? After all the concept was successful beyond their wildest dreams in California. What else could make a big enough difference besides the execution?

On the other hand, if they cheap out and does not flop, then they will conclude that cost cutting is a successful way to continue running the business in Florida.

It wouldn't flop, and that's part of the problem with WDW. Guests will settle for anything. It would still likely be better than Test Track.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I wonder how many they have that troll the boards? It's quite obvious when they post, but they think they keep pulling one over on everyone.
At least half a dozen regulars that I'm almost certain about.

And ones who's dates and posts just don't add up.

It doesn't take much digging to see who's from CP. They deserve a Pat on the head.
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
John Lasster and Tom Staggs will save Carsland from being value engineered by TDO and make hollywood studios a better Theme Park because John Lasster wants Carsland to be a Full Recreation of his beloved Cars Franschise.Tom Staggs wants Walt Disney World to be a better experince for guests that's why he revised New Fanstayland with the additions of storybook ciruis,Princess fairytale hall and Seven Dwarfs mine train and sighing a deal with James Cameron and 20th century fox to bring Avatarland to Animal Kingdom and Tom Staggs is makeing major changes to Epcot after touring Epcot with Bob Iger in 2010 where both he and Iger argeed Epcot needed a Major DCA Style makeover project.Tom Staggs greenlit Test Track 2.0,The Epcot charchear Spot re-theming and rennovantion project and a Agent P's world showchase adventrue.

let's leave out agent p, because that's what people will probably get stuck on, and that's really irrelevant the quality issues you raised anyway.

the proof is in the pudding. none of the things you mentioned are tangible besides the FLE stuff, which was mostly in response to fan outrage and there was nothing of interest for anyone but little girls. and still, the tweaks you mentioned don't improve the attraction count. the FLE adds one attraction. plus it's something that's been on the drawing board since the mid 2000s to increase attendance. geez, i wonder what the motivation would be to increase attendance? suck every last drop of blood (money) from the stone (customer)? me thinks so!

avatar isn't anything yet. neither is carsland. and that's why it's all so frustrating. because they're not even real things and they've ALREADY BEEN SCALED DOWN. already. not out of blue sky. just, here's our feasible plan for the area? okay, cool, trim $100 million off of it.

if current management rocks so hard, they need to prove it. and they don't. i'm not asking for e-tickets. seriously, i'm not. how about show and standards quality? seriously, i'd be fine if WDW got nothing else for 10 years if they just filled the empty attraction buildings they've boarded up for no good reason and improve show standards to late '80s, early '90s levels.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
Tom Staggs is makeing major changes to Epcot after touring Epcot with Bob Iger in 2010 where both he and Iger argeed Epcot needed a Major DCA Style makeover project.Tom Staggs greenlit Test Track 2.0,The Epcot charchear Spot re-theming and rennovantion project and a Agent P's world showchase adventrue.

This is a joke, right? Test Track 2.0 is paid for by GM (I know, Chevrolet branded sponsorship), a redo of a meet and greet, and updating a World Showcase game with currently used characters for branding and cross platform marketing. Ummm. OK. I hope they actually get around to making changes and putting in the necessary capital, but that won't happen. :/
 

johnnylc1980

New Member
Long time lurker, first time poster that just wanted to weigh in. I have been going to WDW for the better part of the last 20 years and have made too many visits to count. It was always a special place and the nostalgia kept me coming back. Over the last few years though my opinions and feelings started to change. i still like it but I noticed a difference in the upkeep, prices that were getting out of hand and a lack of new and exciting things to do. A few years ago when my future wife and I made our first visit she fell in love with it as well, so much so that we got married there last September (needless to say the prices were ridiculous but they did an amazing job). We had to go back down a few months after the wedding to do our album and again I coughed up the ridiculous hotel rates and everything else to feel that nostalgia. A short time before that I found this website and realized I wasnt the only one to see the changes and after that trip I came to my senses and realized I had to stop giving them a free pass for my nostalgia, it just wasnt worth it anymore.

When we planned a fall trip and my wife said "Do you want to go to Florida?" I said no. Instead we went west and spent 5 days at the Disneyland Hotel and I was blown away. I had always heard from people that once you have been to Disneyland you will never look at WDW the same and I have to agree. There is something indescribable about the California parks. The rides, atmosphere, constant live entertainment and so many other things really just blew me away and I could see a difference everywhere I went. DCA was awesome and Cars Land was a sight to behold. I truly cannot wait to go back.

When my wife and I recently sat down to plan a trip for the spring she again asked about Florida because she knows of my love for WDW but again I said no, we can either go back to Cali or lets try a Disney Cruise. I gave WDW a free pass for so many years because of that nostalgic link but not anymore. They simply dont deserve my money anymore. If they want me back they will have to earn it and i dont see that happening any time soon
 

Mike730

Well-Known Member
Spirit,
Bite the bullet. Make a blog. Do it for the rest of us.

I hate to take traffic from WDWmagic (because your threads are quite popular), but we (WDW fans) need you. Here in the forum your posts get covered up by the clutter of other threads and the comments of other users. While forum chat isn't always bad, it may whitewash the the real meat of your posts = "I'm just back again to share another way that WDW is declining by degrees in just about every way"

Any one of us could start a blog or site to try to get the message out there that we (the fans) are not happy, but you have the knowledge and a healthy following already. Plus, the blog would reach an other number of forums that may choose to reference you, while at the moment these forums may not feel comfortable posting from the competition (WDWmagic).

The message needs to get out there to cover up the nonsense that Disney wants everyone to believe. I am admittedly not a huge fan of yours, but your words are the words that need to be heard. The lifestylers need some competition. Heck, if any news station picked up on the blog, Disney would have to notice. Please. You need your own home, one to spread the word. I sit here pleading for your help because very few of us others have the potential to put even a small blip in the radar. If you make it, we will follow. (and of course discuss it here at WDWmagic after reading...)

Sincerely,
Anyone who gives a RATS bum about WDW.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
Sad but I do not think anyone on this board not visiting the parks will make a difference. There are millions uneducated that will still visit blindly regardless.

You're right, but that also discounts the fact that the general public is blind to what's going on. We know many people that aren't fans, just typical family vacation types that haven't been going the past few years because they've told us that the quality isn't the same and what if anything that they've had that is new basically stinks.

Their own quarterly numbers say it all, attendance was down in the Orlando property.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Oh, he is well aware of the situation.
I don't think he will try to stop it, but rather will continue to express his opinion.
He technically doesn't have the "power" to stop such things, but he does have considerable clout to bargain with, if he so chooses.

Maybe we should call him. Who has his number...
Less singing, more networking! Here you go: (510) 9223000. Ask for John.
 

EOD K9

Well-Known Member
Disney Hollywood Studios needs to drop the Studios. It looks kind of like a Hollywood that we imagine should have existed. So it should just be Disney's Hollywood. The only place painted flats worked for me was in Track Course A/B as you knew you were in an industrial testing environment. I'm not getting my hopes up, but why don't we wait til they actually announce it's going to happen AND start construction before we get in a full on uproar.
 

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