Numbers, Cars and Quality ...

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Sad but I do not think anyone on this board not visiting the parks will make a difference. There are millions uneducated that will still visit blindly regardless.
There are princesses for the girls, Cars for the lads. Add in some alcohol for dad and it's all good. They got what they came for. They don't care. Well, they do care, and their demands got fullfilled.

WDW is not an artistic endeavour. It is a theme park in search of the largest mass audience. TDO is brilliantly capable of appealing to the large market segment whose lack of taste is inversely proportional to their disposable income. That is, there are a lot of people out there willing to pay top dollar for plastic, loud, garish entertainment. WDW competes with Vegas, not with an art trip to Florence.

Sucks to be us, the discerning WDW lover. We are being pushed aside by people with lower taste and as much willingness to spend their money in a theme park - and there are more of them than of us.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
It is a theme park in search of the largest mass audience. TDO is brilliantly capable of appealing to the large market segment whose lack of taste is inversely proportional to their disposable income. That is, there are a lot of people out there willing to pay top dollar for plastic, loud, garish entertainment.
matrix02.jpg
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Sucks to be us, the discerning WDW lover. We are being pushed aside by people with lower taste and as much willingness to spend their money in a theme park - and there are more of them than of us.
Ever watched the movie Idiocracy? Good concept, from what I hear, studio execs chopped it to heck and kind of ruined it. Anyway, that movie is the picture I got in my head when you said this.
Incidentally, some day I'll be able to tell my children that they are a direct result of the opening few minutes of that movie. "umm, honey maybe we shouldn't be waiting for 'the right time' to start our family"
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Ever watched the movie Idiocracy? Good concept, from what I hear, studio execs chopped it to heck and kind of ruined it. Anyway, that movie is the picture I got in my head when you said this.
Incidentally, some day I'll be able to tell my children that they are a direct result of the opening few minutes of that movie. "umm, honey maybe we shouldn't be waiting for 'the right time' to start our family"
I love that movie! But my goodness, is it scary! It is both one of the funnest comedies and the worst horror film I've ever seen. It's all a bit too true. :eek:

While we are on the subject. No need to compare TDO with the OLC. One is first world, the other is second world. Everything in East Asia is more advanced, in better condition, visited by smarter people who are better behaved. We need to get psychologically adjusted to that. One can not expect a theme park in Orlando to be the same quality as a park in Tokyo, no more than one in turn can expect to find American quality in Columbia or Algeria. [/hides]
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
And I was so happy with the news regarding Test Track. More examples of two (or three?) steps back for every step forward at WDW.
TT has been build. The FL make-over has been build. Both are tangible, real and existing. And both are quality.

Everything else is still speculation. Avatar Land, Cars Land, Monster Coaster, DHS make-over, Frontierland destruction. Even if any get build, their quality, or lack thereof, remains to be seen. Don't despair yet! The existing projects are quality, the non-existing ones are...well, we'll have to wait and see.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
That much scaled down? Pathetic. Well, that's okay. I'm not going to get upset over this rumor. I might not even be bothered if "Cardboard land" comes to DHS, because unlike other awesome projects that have been value engineered or cut entirely, Carsland still exists in full out in DCA, and soon to be in Tokyo. Maybe it's time to see the rest of the world, and put the disney "world" on hiatus for a few years until they get their acts together.
 

wedenterprises

Well-Known Member
There are princesses for the girls, Cars for the lads. Add in some alcohol for dad and it's all good. They got what they came for. They don't care. Well, they do care, and their demands got fullfilled.

WDW is not an artistic endeavour. It is a theme park in search of the largest mass audience. TDO is brilliantly capable of appealing to the large market segment whose lack of taste is inversely proportional to their disposable income. That is, there are a lot of people out there willing to pay top dollar for plastic, loud, garish entertainment. WDW competes with Vegas, not with an art trip to Florence.

Sucks to be us, the discerning WDW lover. We are being pushed aside by people with lower taste and as much willingness to spend their money in a theme park - and there are more of them than of us.

Bolded for brilliance.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
While we are on the subject. No need to compare TDO with the OLC. One is first world, the other is second world. Everything in East Asia is more advanced, in better condition, visited by smarter people who are better behaved. We need to get psychologically adjusted to that. One can not expect a theme park in Orlando to be the same quality as a park in Tokyo, no more than one in turn can expect to find American quality in Columbia or Algeria. [/hides]
I humbly disagree. Take a look at the OLC principles link that I posted earlier. It's not just that it's east Asia and they're so technologically advanced. The vision for TDR, which came from their parent Mitsui Fusodan was that of a recreational area for workers to relax and spend time with their families. TDR has far more in common with Hersheypark or Busch Gardens than it does with DL or WDW. In America, it is now considered appropriate to flat out rip off families during the limited time they can spend on vacation. The old guard knew this and generally avoided it because they RESPECTED their clientele. Disney is no longer a premium product so you see what you see, ECVS, overuse of strollers, poorly behaved kids, and poor customer service/show quality. I could go on, but I won't. The folks at the top at TDO have zero respect for the families and guests that come there and attempt to give them with a quality experience.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
That much scaled down? Pathetic. Well, that's okay. I'm not going to get upset over this rumor. I might not even be bothered if "Cardboard land" comes to DHS....

Heh heh...methinks we have the name of our new attraction!

CARdboardSLAND !

:p

Sorry...i could not resist the play of words...although the topic is no laughing matter.

In all seriousness....hearing TDO is trying to cut out all the winning factors that made DCA*s version of CarsLand so successful is downright depressing indeed.
WHEN will they understand the lesson already learned earlier this year out there on the West Coast??

Lesson that needs to be learned by TDO - Are you reading this..?
Yes, methinks you are but will probably pretend you are not.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LESSON LEARNED at DCA this year -

Design and build a amazing attraction/themed land with NO cost cutting...NO *value engineering* crap.
FULL THEMING in physical form with FIGURES ( NO video monitors!)and lots of detailing.

Truly MAGIC formula is then:
SPEND money + BUILD BIG = HAPPY Guests and HUGE returns/profits !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is not to understand here?
 

ScoutN

OV 104
Premium Member
I became a theme park passholder this year for the first time in my life -- for the Busch/SeaWorld parks. I've been going to Disney parks and staying at Disney resorts for decades, and have visited every Disney park in the world, so never in a million years would I have imagined that I'd become a passholder for another company before I ever had an annual pass for Disney... but it happened.

I feel compelled to reply with great elaboration to your post. It really is the truth and something I have been saying for a while. As a DVC member I am using my membership to visit BGT/SWF/AQU/DC on a very regular basis. When you can purchase a pass good for all their properties in the country for two years at less than the price of a one year one coast AP to WDW it is the way to go. Especially when one of the parks in that company are not just Disney level but above it from guest services, to scenery, entertainment, and keeping the park FRESH!

With the cost of WDW annual passes continuing to rise even as the parks stagnate, the relative value-for-cost of a WDW pass has only continued a long but steady decline.

Although Busch/SeaWorld recently raised the price of their two-year platinum pass from $440 to $500 (if purchased at SeaWorld Orlando or Busch Gardens Tampa Bay -- it's substantially less expensive if purchased at one of their other parks), in retrospect that's still a bargain considering what you get: for $250 a year, you can visit any of ten theme parks or water parks in the country, plus have free preferred parking (at SWO, this is literally the first couple of rows away from the entrance), preferred seating at shows, free guest passes, roller coaster re-ride privileges, discounts on food and purchases, etc.

I will not be renewing my Disney AP after it expires next year. I will be moving those funds to Universal to purchase an AP at their park.

As a protip for purchasing Platinum Passes with SEA you can purchase on any park's website. The Florida parks have the highest price for the same pass purchased in Va or Ca. Another tip for purchasing with SEA is join the EZPay plan which will lock you onto that rate as long as you keep making the monthly payment. We have had our's on EXPay for Platinum for years, not going to say how many and we pay the rate that passes were when we initially purchased them. VERY VERY large nod to their costumer's and taking care of those loyal to their product(s). A huge lesson there to be learned for elsewhere. Certain SEA parks offer ERT on various coasters during certain times of the year. BGT has a coaster night for passmembers where free Coke products are offered and you can ride all the coasters you want with a fraction of typical lines. To top it off, when an SEA park has a hard ticket event the passholder is typically offered no less than 50% off with some 75% off.


Not that long ago, I would have gladly paid 10 times as much to visit a WDW park as I would have to visit SWO or even Busch Gardens Williamsburg, with their relatively limited number of quality offerings -- but things have changed dramatically. I look at all the amazing holiday stuff that many of the Busch/SeaWorld parks include now as part of the price of admission, like Halloween at BGW or SWO's Christmas celebration (the main reason I'm visiting Orlando for the second time in less than three months), and it's clear that these parks have pulled neck-and-neck -- and even surpassed WDW -- in many of the ways that are important to me, and to my wallet.

Busch Williamsburg has not been voted World's Most Beautiful Park for 22 years consecutively for no reason. It is wildly successful while having major coaster in a very classy natural setting. I attended ChristmasTown at BGW this past Sunday (with plans to attend this weekend again) and was blown away. For the event's debut to be 2009 and to have come as far as it has is nothing less than mind blowing. The quality of the lights, scenery, offering, holiday menus, shows, and unique exhibits for the event is outstanding; all without littering characters to every square inch possible. Attending CT here before going to Disney's Xmas really will spoil WDW when I get there. There is no way WDW can hold a candle to what is offered at Williamsburg this year. Keep in mind that the general public admission for CT in WBurg is $27. THAT is the definition of a value!

Tampa's staff has been working hand in hand with Williamsburg to recreate the wild success at that park for Tampa. They have the lessons learned already from their sister park to prevent certain growing pains that most special events feel during year one. The changes and plusses for SWF's holiday offerings this year are very much large steps forward in quality to parallel what is being seen with upcoming exhibits/attractions there. No corners are left unturned and decorations fill every corner with no dead zones in it. They are also not afraid of saying Merry Christmas.



Just a couple shots.

This area was stripped entirely of its regular season theme and made to mid 20th century Americana Christmas.

f30Chh.jpg


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That's not to say I no longer have any interest in Disney parks... I loved Cars Land and the new DCA when I visited this fall, and I'm eagerly anticipating a return visit to HKDL and TDR next year. When the new Ratatouille attraction opens at DSP or when SDL premieres in a few years, I'll be there. But I probably won't be back at WDW for a long time after this trip... even if I'm in town visiting a bunch of penguins just down the road.

I do not feel like liking another park to a great extent will detract from someone's views on another. Hey, I live within spitting distance of BGW and do visit WDW on a regular basis (although like I said that is more than likely going to change). Values and outstanding products are certainly being found elsewhere and for a very good reason. WDW has fallen behind the curve in a very extreme manner than needs addressing.

It is just odd that SEA, UNI, and West Coast DIS parks are all pumping money into their parks and guests are loving it. In the meantime we hear of nothing but cutting costs all over Orlando. There is the end of my extreme example of one place not cutting costs and being successful vs TDO style. Had to make a statement to the tie the topic in properly.
 

DocMcHulk

Well-Known Member
Lesson that needs to be learned by TDO - Are you reading this..?
Yes, methinks you are but will probably pretend you are not.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LESSON LEARNED at DCA this year -
Design and build a amazing attraction/themed land with NO cost cutting...NO *value engineering* crap.
FULL THEMING in physical form with FIGURES ( NO video monitors!)and lots of detailing.

Truly MAGIC formula is then:
SPEND money + BUILD BIG = HAPPY Guests and HUGE returns/profits !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is not to understand here?
TDO's Mindset - People are lemmings. They'll keep coming no matter what because it says "Disney" on the sign.

The problem, that mindset is now wrong, and they dont know how to undo a decades worth of thinking.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
John Lasster and Tom Staggs will save Carsland from being value engineered by TDO and make hollywood studios a better Theme Park because John Lasster wants Carsland to be a Full Recreation of his beloved Cars Franschise.Tom Staggs wants Walt Disney World to be a better experince for guests that's why he revised New Fanstayland with the additions of storybook ciruis,Princess fairytale hall and Seven Dwarfs mine train and sighing a deal with James Cameron and 20th century fox to bring Avatarland to Animal Kingdom and Tom Staggs is makeing major changes to Epcot after touring Epcot with Bob Iger in 2010 where both he and Iger argeed Epcot needed a Major DCA Style makeover project.Tom Staggs greenlit Test Track 2.0,The Epcot charchear Spot re-theming and rennovantion project and a Agent P's world showchase adventrue.
Yeah, Keep telling yourself that.
 

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