Magic Kingdom No Longer to be Dry

[WDWmazprty]

 

[orky8]

he also believed men with long hair were trouble makers.. he also ran a company without any females in leadership.. he also didn't openly embrace gays.

when are we going to snap out of it and realize many of Walt's ideas were products of his time, and not timeless in themselves?

I don't see how alcohol consumption and its omnipresence is any more a sign of the times now than when Disneyland and later, the Magic Kingdom, was built. People liked to drink back then, they like to drink now. I wasn't around during the 60s and 70s, but I hear those times were pretty groovy. Society's viewpoints on hair-length, female roles, and sexual orientation may have changed (or, at least, some people in society), but what does that have to do with alcohol?

Disneyland/Magic Kingdom was supposed to be an escape into a Fantastical world of magic and make-believe. Part of that was no alcohol because drinking should not be part of this world of make believe. As you well know, the entire reason Disney World came into existence was because following directly on the heals of success to Disneyland, Anaheim became a trashy environment of "adult" indulgences. While behind the berm the illusion was maintained, Walt wanted to expand the illusion out even futher.

I know you will never concede a point, or bother to even consider a divergent viewpoint, but the issue to many of us isn't that serving beer/wine in one restaurant is going to somehow destroy the Magic Kingdom, but it one more, of many steps in the wrong direction by this management team of abandoning the ideals that made the Magic Kingdom what it was. Impeccable attention to detail -- show above all else. Part of that show (albeit, admittedly, a small part) is that there is no alcohol - no "adult" vices in this world of make believe. (Yes, I know, there is smoking, gluttony, and many other vices actually present, but adding to the wrongs, doesn't make it right).

 

[Afondz]

I dont really see the big issue with it. It's not like people are going to go to BoG just to get hammered, I mean there may be some but how hard it is to get in there it's not like a really "thirsty" tourist is going to be able to sit down and get wasted and become a nusance. It's not like you can take shots there. I think having a good glass of wine with a good meal is not only a good combination, it's very French, which matches the theme. I don't think serving beer and wine at a fancy restaurant is going to make the MK into a party scene, IMO

 

[flynnibus]

lol... as your typical white American male none of those groups affect me.

Gender divide... it's 2012 and they still can't close it. There's been enough studies to show that males are more cutthroat and survive better in corporate culture. Let's toss the PC police and face reality.

Didn't openly embrace gays... so? why should he or anyone else? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that, but if you support equality, then you should so across the board, not just with people who agree with your opinion.

Long hair... hey, again... we write the rules, you have to live in them. Suits, clean cut... that's how it's always been

You missed that none of those Walt ideas exist in the company today.. and some of them (the gay policy) the company is actually widely praised for. If we were to use the same 'tradition' logic being applied in this thread, none of these changes would have happened. Not all of Walt's ideas were timeless - many were a product of his time and hence should not be followed blindly for all of time.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

For all the folks who say Walt would have been against this, I present the following extremely rare image, which was taken shortly before the Main Street parade sometime in the late 1950s,and which has not been altered in any way.

WARNING: The following image may prove upsetting!

 

[ddbowdoin]

You missed that none of those Walt ideas exist in the company today.. and some of them (the gay policy) the company is actually widely praised for. If we were to use the same 'tradition' logic being applied in this thread, none of these changes would have happened. Not all of Walt's ideas were timeless - many were a product of his time and hence should not be followed blindly for all of time.

if they weren't subjected to the court of public opinion, I'd question whether the Disney corporation or any other major American corporation would in fact hold this opinion.

Tom Brokaw called them the greatest generation for a reason, change is not always an advancement in culture and society...

just something to chew on, as someone who values tradition and heritage

 

[RSoxNo1]

This thread reminds me of the Roseanne episode where they go to Disney and Dan is so upset MK is dry and rushes over to Epcot and gets a huge beer tower thing in Germany. Ah, I love that show.

I thought the exact same thing.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't see how alcohol consumption and its omnipresence is any more a sign of the times now than when Disneyland and later, the Magic Kingdom, was built. People liked to drink back then, they like to drink now

Drinking in society has changed significantly since the rowdy carny days Walt was trying to keep at bay. Society's tolerance and how it faces drinking has changed significantly.

No tolerance for public drunkenness or driving under the influence. Less social tolerance for hanging out at the bar nightly. Less tolerance for drinking in the work environment. Less social tolerance for perennial drunks. Getting sober is now celebrated and encouraged. Alcoholism is identified as a disease, not just a behavior.

Today we have binge drinking in social drinking, and people still drink in excess. But drinking outside social environments has taken a strong negative stigma. In our political correctness and race to look at healthy living... you don't find the majority of working men ending the daily routine at their corner bar anymore, or so many people living out of their bottle. Drugs have replaced alcohol for most of those on a race to the bottom.

I wasn't around during the 60s and 70s, but I hear those times were pretty groovy. Society's viewpoints on hair-length, female roles, and sexual orientation may have changed (or, at least, some people in society), but what does that have to do with alcohol?

The Disney company was actually under great siege at the time because the counter-culture saw Disney as a lightning rod of everything that was wrong with the stiff, controlling, revisionist culture of the 50s. The way Disney 'scrubbed' reality, etc. His idealism and resistance to address harsh social realities happening at the time actually hurt the company image to many.

But what it has to do with alcohol is the only reason people think alcohol doesn't belong is because of statements and beliefs from Walt Disney. Statements whose relevance today is defined only by the fact the man said it 45+ years ago. Well there are a lot of other things he said and believed in 45+ years ago that everyone agrees the company SHOULD NOT follow blindly. If your platform is 'walt wanted it' - the answer is 'walt in the 50s, wanted it that way back then based on what the world of the 50s was like, not based on what he doesn't know about society today'

Disneyland/Magic Kingdom was supposed to be an escape into a Fantastical world of magic and make-believe. Part of that was no alcohol because drinking should not be part of this world of make believe. As you well know, the entire reason Disney World came into existence was because following directly on the heals of success to Disneyland, Anaheim became a trashy environment of "adult" indulgences. While behind the berm the illusion was maintained, Walt wanted to expand the illusion out even futher.

There is nothing to support the idea that Walt wanted to exclude alcohol as part of the 'escape'. What he was keeping at bay was the type of people and behaviors - not alcohol itself. So it's the people and behaviors that matter.

I know you will never concede a point, or bother to even consider a divergent viewpoint, but the issue to many of us isn't that serving beer/wine in one restaurant is going to somehow destroy the Magic Kingdom, but it one more, of many steps in the wrong direction by this management team of abandoning the ideals that made the Magic Kingdom what it was. Impeccable attention to detail -- show above all else. Part of that show (albeit, admittedly, a small part) is that there is no alcohol - no "adult" vices in this world of make believe. (Yes, I know, there is smoking, gluttony, and many other vices actually present, but adding to the wrongs, doesn't make it right).

If you had something that showed how it would negatively impact the park.. I would agree with you. If you think it's 'wrong direction' simply because it's change... then no I don't agree with you anymore than someone saying operating the park 7 days a week is a 'step in the wrong direction' simply because its a change from how things used to be.

 

[Mawg]

Even if it is not served just in the restaurants it really doesn't bother me. The price point of beer, wine and liquor in amusement parks is so high it's preventative in letting people get drunk. Will it still happen, yes. It happens at professional sporting events all the time. But, there is also tail gating at sporting events where people can get drunk cheap before. If someone wants to get wasted at the Magic Kingdom, they are more likely to do it at the resort and then go to the park and nothing prevents them from doing it now.

There is nothing better on a hot day at the Studios, Epcot or AK around 3 or 4 PM than an ice cold beer and some popcorn or a pretzel. I don't know why but that beer seems to always taste so much better than any other beer. Maybe they put Pixie Dust in it or something.

This is a business decision and it will probably double the profits of the restaurant. I respect the point of view of the traditionalists on here, I completely understand. But, this is about the company making money for it's shareholders nothing more. They know the traditionalists and Disney fanatics are not going anywhere. And this decision is really not going to bring more people to the park. Most newbie's probably don't even know the park is dry until they get there. But, what is does do is get more money per guest.

 

[flynnibus]

if they weren't subjected to the court of public opinion, I'd question whether the Disney corporation or any other major American corporation would in fact hold this opinion.

Then you should really do some more research into the Disney culture and pay attention to other areas where Disney goes way beyond the expectations of public opinion out of principle and not guilt... such as access for the disabled and special needs.

But the example still stands... not all the ideas of Walt from the 50s are timeless.

 

[Lee]

I really don't want to get caught up in this quagmire of a thread, but I'll toss my thoughts in.

- I don't drink, so it really doesn't effect me. Overall...I don't care one way or the other.

- Of all the major issues at MK....is beer and wine really worth getting riled up over?

- Keep in mind, they aren't opening a bar in Fantasyland. It is a restaurant that will serve beer and wine with a meal. You cant just stroll in and buy a beer or three. Big difference. I'll wager that it will be a VERY rare occurrence for someone to come out of BoG intoxicated after a meal with the family.

 

[MichWolv]

I really don't know, having never been to Disneyland. I wouldn't be surprised though.

I think a lot of what it is for me is what I've been conditioned to believe. I've been going to WDW since 1986 and it's something that I often wondered about. Why didn't they sell booze at the MK? As I got older and became more interested in the history of both WDW and of Walt Disney, it became fascinating to me.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt - The Magic Kingdom is the most special place on Earth to me. There may be light bulbs out from time to time, and Splash Mountain needs a rehab more than Amanda Bynes, but it is still the most Magical place in the world to me, as lame as that sounds. It's a place where I feel safe, comfortable and innocent. When I see a piece of trash on the ground, I pick it up and throw it away. When I see a water bottle left on the railing of Splash Mountain, I pick it up and throw it away. This all probably seems incredibly lame to most, but it's just how much I love the place. The idea of anything changing the wholesome, pure fantasy I have of the place upsets me a great deal.

Captain, this is the second time I've had an exchange with you where you started out seeming like a raging nutcase and wound up explaining yourself quite well when you showed that you're just sentimental about the place. You should lead with that more often.

Your sentimentality is, I suspect, something most of us around here understand quite well, even when we argue that changes are OK.

 

[LithiumBill]

I really don't want to get caught up in this quagmire of a thread, but I'll toss my thoughts in.

- I don't drink, so it really doesn't effect me. Overall...I don't care one way or the other.

- Of all the major issues at MK....is beer and wine really worth getting riled up over?

- Keep in mind, they aren't opening a bar in Fantasyland. It is a restaurant that will serve beer and wine with a meal. You cant just stroll in and by a beer or three. Big difference. I'll wager that it will be a VERY rare occurrence for someone to come out of BoG intoxicated after a meal with the family.

Spot on.

This type of fine dining experience, the chefs WANT to pair with wines and beers... There is no bar to pull up to to grab a quick beer. I do not think that will EVER happen at the MK.

I share Lee's stance. I drink on occasion, and a cold beer on a hot day makes me very happy, but an ice cold lemonade at the MK does the same for me as well...

 

[GoofGoof]

Nothing like name calling. Just sarcastic remarks putting words into people's mouths. "The sky is falling", or "The world is ending". Nobody has said that.

And nobody said they couldn't make it through a meal without a drink. Goes both ways.

 

[captainkidd]

or maybe get thicker skin and realize the post was highlighting your 'threats' have little bite and carry little impact when you change with the wind. You just didn't like getting called out for what would probably be more empty words..

No, I can deal with being called out. Actually, had I not owned up to my poor choice of words in the past, I'd have that coming. But now, you're beating a dead horse just for the sake of being a mean person. Whatever floats your boat dude.

 

[LithiumBill]

I'd be curious to see the police records on drunkenness at orlando theme parks... In all the times I have been to WDW and UNI I'v only ever seen one person so drunk they were causing a scene, and that was at EPCOT. The person was escorted out of the park by police.

 

[captainkidd]

Captain, this is the second time I've had an exchange with you where you started out seeming like a raging nutcase and wound up explaining yourself quite well when you showed that you're just sentimental about the place. You should lead with that more often.

Your sentimentality is, I suspect, something most of us around here understand quite well, even when we argue that changes are OK.

No, I am a raging nutcase. I'm just a sentimental raging nutcase.

 

[captainkidd]

I really don't want to get caught up in this quagmire of a thread, but I'll toss my thoughts in.

 

[twinnstar]

They need to make money somehow. Every minor change we treat like our lives are going to end! A little wine and beer at certain hours in a sit down restaurant isnt going to kill anyone. Hell, you can get plastered very easily in Epcot and I dont think I've visible ever seen someone drunk enough to notice before (unless they were in MY party, bwahaha!) I think this will be okay. Deep breaths!

 

[captainkidd]

They need to make money somehow. Every minor change we treat like our lives are going to end! A little wine and beer at certain hours in a sit down restaurant isnt going to kill anyone. Hell, you can get plastered very easily in Epcot and I dont think I've visible ever seen someone drunk enough to notice before (unless they were in MY party, bwahaha!) I think this will be okay. Deep breaths!

Here you go: