Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit?

Pete C

Active Member
Every coaster that features looping elements or hills will constantly be slowing down as the coaster approaches the end, always, unless it is a terrain coaster that can actually have larger drops mid-course like Phantom's Revenge or a mid-course launch like Maverick. That is why the hills get smaller and the turns tighter as the course nears the ending as to keep positive and negative G's equal despite the loss in speed. That's all well and good with a large, heavy coaster train like a B&M or Intamin hypercoaster carrying up to 36 people per train. Those trains are going to maintain their speed due to such mass.

However, this coaster's trains are so small and light...we are talking a max of 12 people per train. That does not allow for a lot of momentum. Wind can affect this coaster as we have seen already. It just looks like the thing is totally dead going back under the non-inverting loop and through its final elements. Are the brakes turned on perhaps? Will they be turned off when it goes into full swing??
 

Matpez

Well-Known Member
Well, what we don't know is if they were intentionally doing something to see if it would fail, as it has made the circuit many times.
Also, we don't have much precedent for a fully outside, visible coaster being tested in front of guests with twitter. This could have always been the case, but now with the mobile web and other advancements, we all knew about it within minutes of it happening.
Epcotservo claims this happened a few times with Everest, but we would have never been able to see that, nor "tweet" it.
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
Well, what we don't know is if they were intentionally doing something to see if it would fail, as it has made the circuit many times.
Also, we don't have much precedent for a fully outside, visible coaster being tested in front of guests with twitter. This could have always been the case, but now with the mobile web and other advancements, we all knew about it within minutes of it happening.
Epcotservo claims this happened a few times with Everest, but we would have never been able to see that, nor "tweet" it.

Yep, there would have been absolutely no way to know about it, because it was always before park opening, and it only happens at the Byron curve. (The big Helix.)

Like I said, it happens. And after all, this is testing. Things are supposed to not work now so they can be fixed.
:shrug:

(And I don't get the slow complaint. It might look slow on video because there's no sense of scale. Having seen it in real life, it's covering ALOT more ground than it appears too in videos.:lol:)
 

Pete C

Active Member
(And I don't get the slow complaint. It might look slow on video because there's no sense of scale. Having seen it in real life, it's covering ALOT more ground than it appears too in videos.:lol:)

Glad to hear that. I haven't made it over to Universal lately to check it out in person.
 

hardcard

New Member
I never said anything about the ride gaining or losing energy in my previous post. However, if you're trying to say that the initial drop is the only place along a coaster's course where it can reach its top speed, this is false. The speed obviously won't remain constant, but depending on how a ride is designed, it can easily regain whatever momentum was lost in previous elements midcourse. And just because one drop is taller than another, it doesn't necessarily produce a faster moving vehicle. Especially if the vehicle is already moving at a faster speed when it takes the shorter drop. And considering the slow descent of a usual first drop on rides with chain lifts, this is often the case.

Sorry, but you are wrong... Physics dictate that you CANNOT get more energy from an object than you put into an object.. The only energy put into the train is the chain lift.. There are no other lifts that move the inert train.. Momentum is constantly degrading for the entire course of the attraction.. the ONLY exception is if the coaster was able to drop BELOW the level of the original climb.. In other words, if the coaster is lifted to 100 feet, drops 25 , helixes, and then drops another 125 feet because the grade of the land changes, then it would get additional energy.. but thats it... Sorry, but thats a proven fact in the world of physics.. And if you can show otherwise, there are many energy companies that would love to talk to you... .You can only get out of the train, what you put into it.. Thats it... So the energy in the train is at it's maximum after the first drop.. It erodes after that, without fail.

and btw, Energy Dictates Speed while coupled with grade.. Simple equation... Max speed is achieved ONLY when you spend the initial load of energy put into the train (for example: the large drop on everest for example spends the greatest percentage of the energy gained on the main lift climb)
 

hardcard

New Member
so... no music on that screen for those of us who prefer tradtion rock or older music...

Blah.... You can your Limp Bisquick and your Daft Boot.
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
so... no music on that screen for those of us who prefer tradtion rock or older music...

Blah.... You can your Limp Bisquick and your Daft Boot.

Those are just the five choices for Club/Electronica.

You can choose the five choices each for Rap/Hip Hop, Classic Rock/Metal, Pop/Disco, or Country. There you go. Thirty songs in all.

Happy now QuickeyMcJudgmentPants?
:lol:
 

jonnyc

Well-Known Member
Those are just the five choices for Club/Electronica.

You can choose the five choices each for Rap/Hip Hop, Classic Rock/Metal, Pop/Disco, or Country. There you go. Thirty songs in all.

Happy now QuickeyMcJudgmentPants?
:lol:

Has an official list of tracks for opening been released? If not, when will it be?
 

CoasterKing

Member
Sorry, but you are wrong... Physics dictate that you CANNOT get more energy from an object than you put into an object.. The only energy put into the train is the chain lift.. There are no other lifts that move the inert train.. Momentum is constantly degrading for the entire course of the attraction.. the ONLY exception is if the coaster was able to drop BELOW the level of the original climb.. In other words, if the coaster is lifted to 100 feet, drops 25 , helixes, and then drops another 125 feet because the grade of the land changes, then it would get additional energy.. but thats it... Sorry, but thats a proven fact in the world of physics.. And if you can show otherwise, there are many energy companies that would love to talk to you... .You can only get out of the train, what you put into it.. Thats it... So the energy in the train is at it's maximum after the first drop.. It erodes after that, without fail.

and btw, Energy Dictates Speed while coupled with grade.. Simple equation... Max speed is achieved ONLY when you spend the initial load of energy put into the train (for example: the large drop on everest for example spends the greatest percentage of the energy gained on the main lift climb)

Actually, it is possible for a roller coaster to achieve its maximum speed after the first drop. If Maximum Velocity is achieved coming down a 100 ft hill after only 50 ft (for example), then Maximum Velocity can be achieved further along the ride without the need for another 100 ft drop, just an element that would be equivalent of a 50 ft drop.

The question is can Maximum Velocity be achieved on the first hill. If yes, then as stated above, it is possible. If no, then I agree that it would not be possible without help or as you said terrain changes.

If you have ever ridden "The Beast" at Kings Island, you know that the speed actually increases further in the ride due to the terrain being lower as the ride progresses.

CoasterKing :king:
 

hardcard

New Member
Actually, it is possible for a roller coaster to achieve its maximum speed after the first drop. If Maximum Velocity is achieved coming down a 100 ft hill after only 50 ft (for example), then Maximum Velocity can be achieved further along the ride without the need for another 100 ft drop, just an element that would be equivalent of a 50 ft drop.

The question is can Maximum Velocity be achieved on the first hill. If yes, then as stated above, it is possible. If no, then I agree that it would not be possible without help or as you said terrain changes.

If you have ever ridden "The Beast" at Kings Island, you know that the speed actually increases further in the ride due to the terrain being lower as the ride progresses.

CoasterKing :king:


Thats exactly what I said.. if the grade changes, it can be achieved.. Otherwise, the train is constantly losing energy.. in Rockit's case... .no grade changes occur...
 

hardcard

New Member
Those are just the five choices for Club/Electronica.

You can choose the five choices each for Rap/Hip Hop, Classic Rock/Metal, Pop/Disco, or Country. There you go. Thirty songs in all.

Happy now QuickeyMcJudgmentPants?
:lol:

Figured as much.. just gave me a chance to cry a little bit :)....

and how did you know what brand of pants I wear? :eek:
 

dandaman

Well-Known Member
Dear Universal Creative,

It has come to my attention that you have neglected to include a Classical/Film category for your new ride, "Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit". Please correct this oversight as soon as possible.

Best Regards,
Dan Smith
 

AndyP

Active Member
Sorry, but you are wrong... Physics dictate that you CANNOT get more energy from an object than you put into an object.. The only energy put into the train is the chain lift.. There are no other lifts that move the inert train.. Momentum is constantly degrading for the entire course of the attraction.. the ONLY exception is if the coaster was able to drop BELOW the level of the original climb.. In other words, if the coaster is lifted to 100 feet, drops 25 , helixes, and then drops another 125 feet because the grade of the land changes, then it would get additional energy.. but thats it... Sorry, but thats a proven fact in the world of physics.. And if you can show otherwise, there are many energy companies that would love to talk to you... .You can only get out of the train, what you put into it.. Thats it... So the energy in the train is at it's maximum after the first drop.. It erodes after that, without fail.

and btw, Energy Dictates Speed while coupled with grade.. Simple equation... Max speed is achieved ONLY when you spend the initial load of energy put into the train (for example: the large drop on everest for example spends the greatest percentage of the energy gained on the main lift climb)

No offence, but if you're going to basically shout at people with capitals and tell them that they are wrong you need to make sure you are correct yourself, which you aren't. You generally have the right idea but you are mixing up all sorts of physics and telling them to other people as if you are an expert.

First of all saying the energy in the train is maximum at the end of the first drop, incorrect. The energy in the train is at its greatest at the highest point of the roller coaster when there are no devices which add speed such as the magnetic launchers. The maximum energy that can be obtained from the roller coaster is the gravitiational energy between the highest and the lowest point, and the same applies for the maximum about of energy extracted on any drop, the top of the drop and the bottom. Obviously you will never get the total amount of energy from the system due to loss of energy from the system in the form of heat and sound. The only accelerating force is gravity, the only resistances are wind and friction.

Your statement about the momentum of the train constantly degrading is completely false, it is constantly rising and falling. Momentum is mass * Velocity, so at the top of the hill and loop it is virtually zero, and at the bottom of the hills at its greatest, so constantly degrading is incorrect.

Also energy is not 'spent' as it can be neither created or destroyed. When considering the energy of the train only, the only energy lost from that system is due to conversion of sound and heat energy from kinetic energy, but in terms of the overall energy of the train, only a small amount is converted to these other forms when operating on a low friction track with reasonable aerodynamics on the train.

Some people also seem to be mixing up the grade of the descent with the maximum speed available. Well, this is technically true but people seem to be mixing up the reason why. Unless i am getting confused with the vocabulary of different nations here, i am assuming the word grade here is in reference to the slope of the track, so 90 degrees grade would be a vertical drop, and 10 degrees grade a very shallow slope. Now, in a frictionless environment, it doesnt matter what grade you are on, if the change of height is the same, the speed at the bottom of the slope will be the same as acceleration is due to gravity only. for small differences in grade in a real environment, if the change in height is the same then the speed will be very similar at the bottom of the slopes as the difference in energy converted to heat due to friction will not be so great.

Now in terms of this discussion on the train rolling back and not making it up the hill, it doesnt make a whole great deal whether the train is full or not.

The total gravitational energy that can be used is mass * gravitational constant * height, converted into kinetic energy is 1/2 * mass * velocity * velocity, since the mass of the train doesn't change, unless someone throws up or something, then the velocity is basically independent of the mass of the train, regardless of it being full or not. The only real effect is there will be a difference of the friction on the track. There is not a great deal of tolerance in the conversion between the gravitational and kinetic energy built into the system, it could be worse if the coaster went too quickly over the top of a hill due to stresses on the train and riders than it rolling back.

Apologies if i have made any mistakes in my physics writing this, done this quite quickly.
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
Dear Universal Creative,

It has come to my attention that you have neglected to include a Classical/Film category for your new ride, "Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit". Please correct this oversight as soon as possible.

Best Regards,
Dan Smith

It's Universal's shot at Music/Music Video tribute.

Like I said, it's not perfect, but it's far from Disney World these days, whom are not trying. Not even a little.
:lol:
 

hardcard

New Member
No offence, but if you're going to basically shout at people with capitals and tell them that they are wrong you need to make sure you are correct yourself, which you aren't. You generally have the right idea but you are mixing up all sorts of physics and telling them to other people as if you are an expert.

First of all saying the energy in the train is maximum at the end of the first drop, incorrect. The energy in the train is at its greatest at the highest point of the roller coaster when there are no devices which add speed such as the magnetic launchers. The maximum energy that can be obtained from the roller coaster is the gravitiational energy between the highest and the lowest point, and the same applies for the maximum about of energy extracted on any drop, the top of the drop and the bottom. Obviously you will never get the total amount of energy from the system due to loss of energy from the system in the form of heat and sound. The only accelerating force is gravity, the only resistances are wind and friction.

Your statement about the momentum of the train constantly degrading is completely false, it is constantly rising and falling. Momentum is mass * Velocity, so at the top of the hill and loop it is virtually zero, and at the bottom of the hills at its greatest, so constantly degrading is incorrect.

Also energy is not 'spent' as it can be neither created or destroyed. When considering the energy of the train only, the only energy lost from that system is due to conversion of sound and heat energy from kinetic energy, but in terms of the overall energy of the train, only a small amount is converted to these other forms when operating on a low friction track with reasonable aerodynamics on the train.

Some people also seem to be mixing up the grade of the descent with the maximum speed available. Well, this is technically true but people seem to be mixing up the reason why. Unless i am getting confused with the vocabulary of different nations here, i am assuming the word grade here is in reference to the slope of the track, so 90 degrees grade would be a vertical drop, and 10 degrees grade a very shallow slope. Now, in a frictionless environment, it doesnt matter what grade you are on, if the change of height is the same, the speed at the bottom of the slope will be the same as acceleration is due to gravity only. for small differences in grade in a real environment, if the change in height is the same then the speed will be very similar at the bottom of the slopes as the difference in energy converted to heat due to friction will not be so great.

Now in terms of this discussion on the train rolling back and not making it up the hill, it doesnt make a whole great deal whether the train is full or not.

The total gravitational energy that can be used is mass * gravitational constant * height, converted into kinetic energy is 1/2 * mass * velocity * velocity, since the mass of the train doesn't change, unless someone throws up or something, then the velocity is basically independent of the mass of the train, regardless of it being full or not. The only real effect is there will be a difference of the friction on the track. There is not a great deal of tolerance in the conversion between the gravitational and kinetic energy built into the system, it could be worse if the coaster went too quickly over the top of a hill due to stresses on the train and riders than it rolling back.

Apologies if i have made any mistakes in my physics writing this, done this quite quickly.

this is absolutely no different than what I said... and if you think so, either I wasn't clear enough, or you interpreted it wrong... either way, I agree with you... but for someone to say that the train could gain the potential to travel at full speed without consideration for the kinetic and potential energies of the full climb/gravity influnce is wrong.. like I said... if the first 'drop' was 25% of the inital climb, you would spend/transfer 25% of the energy transfered into the train.. if there was a second drop that covered the remaining 75%, it would absorb the last remaining kinetic energy.... without another lift, or grade change, there is zero chance of converting more energy than achieved at the initial lift into kinetic energy..


And btw... I DO know what I'm talking about..
 

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