Economy does in Fantasyland

[OFTeric]

...except bringing down the wand (whoopee do!).

I don't know if anyone else shared this, but the wand coming down had nothing to do with Lasseter or Iger, but with the fact that Seimens hated it, and it was part of the sponsorship agreement! YAY Seimens! I will forever heart you for that!

 

[marni1971]

Enigma, the thing to remember is we are just seeing the end of the Eisner plans. Iger inherited a lot that was too far down the line (SGE, TLF etc.) but the plans for the next decade are anything but Eisner-led. Iger and Lassater can give what the OLC, not Disney, ask for in Tokyo, but for Orlando there is the added complication of Rassulo and also local management. It is the latter who are still left from the last era, and they have power. That`s why the HM,SSE and PotC opened before they were ready, why PotC was the cheap option and why Space is now at a sticking point. I believe they will, and are, using the economy as an excuse to curtail and postpone things that the current ecconomic situation wouldn`t effect.

Kudos to Universal.

 

[fosse76]

The money is there by the bucket load. Even if it wasn't, Disney would have no problems securing loans even when no one else can.

Ummm...perhaps you haven't been following the financial crisis...'cause if you had been you'd know how false that statement is. Part of the reason the economy is collapsing is because the banks have STOPPED lending, even to each other. Part of the emergency of the bailout package was because the banks were going to freeze ALL credit ...meaning that most businesses (most businesses operate on short-term loans to meet payroll and other operational expenses, using cash on hand and other assets as collateral) would have to lay-off millions of workers, not to mention the freeze on consumer credit. Disney's cash on hand probably wouldn't cover ALL its operational expenses at any one time. And even if it did, it wouldn't last very long. If Disney can't even afford to keep all its entertainment options running, how are they going to afford these major construction projects?

Disney would be absolutely irresponsible to begin ambitious construction projects in this economy. Unlike Six Flags or Cedar Fair parks, Disney doesn't wholly rely on new attractions or improvements to keep people coming through their gates (long term, yes, but short-term, no). It may motivate locals to visit more frequently, but the long-distance travelor won't be any more likely to come with a shiny new attraction.

I think the point riversidebunny was making is that it is possible Disney has already paid for a lot of the hardware for the SM refurb and that at some point the project is not stoppable although it sound like it might have been scaled back which would be a terrible mistake IMO.

Maybe the money that was going to the FL extreme makeover has been temporarily diverted to do the SM refurb as originally planned :sohappy:

It's unlikely that anything in the SM rehab has been prepaid. And the rehab is most likely still happening more for safety concerns than cosmetic (just speculation on my part, of course). Businesses, at least on the scale of Disney, would never pay money upfront...if the company they hire goes bankrupt then they would lose that money.

 

[Master Yoda]

Master Yoda...Sorry it took me a while to respond. I can't really check this site at work too much. I thought Blue Sky meant that there was nothing in the way...Like there is nothing but "blue skies". I don't know...kinda stupid now that i think about it. I just thought it meant something that was for sure.

I see. Sounds perfectly logical to me. The term that is used for what you described is "green lit". When an attraction is green lit it is generally full steam ahead on making that attraction a reality.

 

[ada0801]

Thanks for the information!! I love reading these threads. Can't wait to go home in 53 days!!!!:sohappy:

 

[Austin1]

Ummm...perhaps you haven't been following the financial crisis...'cause if you had been you'd know how false that statement is. Part of the reason the economy is collapsing is because the banks have STOPPED lending, even to each other. Part of the emergency of the bailout package was because the banks were going to freeze ALL credit ...meaning that most businesses (most businesses operate on short-term loans to meet payroll and other operational expenses, using cash on hand and other assets as collateral) would have to lay-off millions of workers, not to mention the freeze on consumer credit. Disney's cash on hand probably wouldn't cover ALL its operational expenses at any one time. And even if it did, it wouldn't last very long. If Disney can't even afford to keep all its entertainment options running, how are they going to afford these major construction projects?

Disney would be absolutely irresponsible to begin ambitious construction projects in this economy. Unlike Six Flags or Cedar Fair parks, Disney doesn't wholly rely on new attractions or improvements to keep people coming through their gates (long term, yes, but short-term, no). It may motivate locals to visit more frequently, but the long-distance travelor won't be any more likely to come with a shiny new attraction.



It's unlikely that anything in the SM rehab has been prepaid. And the rehab is most likely still happening more for safety concerns than cosmetic (just speculation on my part, of course). Businesses, at least on the scale of Disney, would never pay money upfront...if the company they hire goes bankrupt then they would lose that money.

So true. I don't know if you've kept up with Disney stock, but it has taken a serious hit. It's currently fallen from a high of $35 a share earlier this year to $23 per share.

Sadly, I don't think we will be getting anything promised to us anytime soon. However, I still find it very difficult to believe that they are just going to do a safety refurb. We need some serious cosmetic changes.

 

[stitch2008]

I wonder about the new Journey into Imagination?, I guess we wont see that now either. True all the rest was blue sky anyway but was hoping they would still go through with mermaid, MK needs something like that and sooner rather than later.

I heard in another thread that some small work had begun on Imagination. So that makes me think that everything will be going as planned with that. I could be wrong about that though.

 

[Silvermist]

Enigma, the thing to remember is we are just seeing the end of the Eisner plans. Iger inherited a lot that was too far down the line (SGE, TLF etc.) but the plans for the next decade are anything but Eisner-led. Iger and Lassater can give what the OLC, not Disney, ask for in Tokyo, but for Orlando there is the added complication of Rassulo and also local management. It is the latter who are still left from the last era, and they have power. That`s why the HM,SSE and PotC opened before they were ready, why PotC was the cheap option and why Space is now at a sticking point. I believe they will, and are, using the economy as an excuse to curtail and postpone things that the current ecconomic situation wouldn`t effect.

Kudos to Universal.

So, what's it going to take to vanquish the heathens? :fork:

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

Interesting. That's all I can think of to say. I can see this happening therefore I hate to dispute it, but then there's the source...

 

[stitch2008]

So, what's it going to take to vanquish the heathens? :fork:

Bring up the topic at a shareholder meeting? :shrug:

 

[Computer Magic]

So true. I don't know if you've kept up with Disney stock, but it has taken a serious hit. It's currently fallen from a high of $35 a share earlier this year to $23 per share.

Looks like a good time to pick up some Disney stock. I'm sure Disney will be buying back some of that stock.

 

[sbkline]

I enjoy the classics too, but I missed your point on the Toon Town Fair. The plan was for a Mickey Mouse Clubhouse theme and not Playhouse Disney (which is represented as a show at DHS). The Mickey Mouse Club house is all classic Mickey characters, only with a more colorful club house. This would maintain the characters we know and love and present them in a way our kids can relate to. I've been watching Mickey as long as I can remember (38 yrs) but I have never made the connection to the "Toon Town Fair". Where'd the Fair come from (really, I don't know)?

I do appreciate your view on the classic Disney characters over all. I used to feel the same way. But watching how my son rapidly adopts the computer animation based shows verse 2 day animation changed my mind. The new rendered versions and shows appeal to a his new generation. They are surrounded by multi-media forms, interactive environments, and technology that we would have thought "only on Star Trek". We need to allow for extensions and progression of the classics to appeal to the views they are adopting from the surrounds that are forming their opinions.

After all, you wouldn't be watching any Disney shows if your grand parents had the same perspective about their radio shows. :wave:

My point was that I want not just ToonTown Fair, but all of WDW, to remain primarily about the classic characters. And not just the classic characters, but the classic incarnations of them and not this CG crap. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that both playhouse Disney and Mickey's Clubhouse were CG. To me, a 21st century, CG Mickey is almost...not quite, but almost, as bad as not even having Mickey at all.

As far as appealing to new generations...I was born in 1975 and I grew up watching the classic Looney Tunes, which were made in the WWII era. I didn't need to see Ataris, microwave ovens, jet planes, etc, on these cartoons in order for me to enjoy them. And I don't see why we always think kids have to have some "modern version" of things in order to relate to them. I know, for a 33 year old man, I'm an old fuddy duddy, but I just don't see why we always think kids have to have things "modernized" in order for them to get into it. If that's what they see from the time they start watching it, that's what they will be used to and they won't think a thing of it. At least that's how it worked for me.

 

[DisneyGigi]

My point was that I want not just ToonTown Fair, but all of WDW, to remain primarily about the classic characters. And not just the classic characters, but the classic incarnations of them and not this CG crap. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that both playhouse Disney and Mickey's Clubhouse were CG. To me, a 21st century, CG Mickey is almost...not quite, but almost, as bad as not even having Mickey at all.

As far as appealing to new generations...I was born in 1975 and I grew up watching the classic Looney Tunes, which were made in the WWII era. I didn't need to see Ataris, microwave ovens, jet planes, etc, on these cartoons in order for me to enjoy them. And I don't see why we always think kids have to have some "modern version" of things in order to relate to them. I know, for a 33 year old man, I'm an old fuddy duddy, but I just don't see why we always think kids have to have things "modernized" in order for them to get into it. If that's what they see from the time they start watching it, that's what they will be used to and they won't think a thing of it. At least that's how it worked for me.

I have to step in here and say that my kids like the classics much more than they do the new cartoons on Disney Channel etc. They watch the classic cartoons over and over on Walt Disney Treasures but do not watch any of the newer ones. I guess that comes from me in a way, a fuddy duddy too,but they clock way more time on the oldies than they do the new stuff.:shrug:

 

[yankspy]

I am no economist and so it is hard for me to compare but I do think that it should be remembered that EPCOT was built and opened during a very bad recession.

I guess I am only trying to say that it is not entirely impossible to expand during a fiscal crisis.

 

[coasterphil]

So, what's it going to take to vanquish the heathens? :fork:

It's probably going to take a big attendance drop during one of these amazing Disney Parks marketing campaigns. The execs should be able to see how silly the whole Disney Parks concept and everything else Rasulo does is, but I don't think they do.

 

[tirian]

The problem isn't with crowds now, it's with the slowdown in booking for the coming months. The guests you see now, for the most part booked months ago.

The forcasts for tourism in central Florida weren't very rosy for '09. That scares the bejeezus out of the accountineers.

The DRC is dead. Dead, dead, dead. Hardly any bookings at all for '09.

 

[Austin1]

Looks like a good time to pick up some Disney stock. I'm sure Disney will be buying back some of that stock.

You better believe it. I'm stongly considering purchasing some.

 

[TP2000]

Sadly, I don't think we will be getting anything promised to us anytime soon.

Here's the thing.... NOTHING really has been "promised" for WDW recently. The only thing "promised" lately has been Pixie Hollow and American Idol, both of which are nearing completion and open soon. The only other thing "promised" recently was the closure of Pleasure Island, which they went through with.

WDW's Space Mountain rehab a la' Disneyland, Imagination pavilion remake, new ride in Animal Kingdom, new Pixar coaster in DHS, even that ridiculous "Night Kingdom" thing Jim Hill beat to death, all of those things are just online rumors. They may be mentioned by anonymous people on message boards who are honest and fun folks, but none of it has been officially mentioned by Disney executives or even hinted at in official Disney communication. It's all just online rumors at best, or fanboy wish lists at worst.

Now, other parks have had things formally and officially announced by Disney, with construction underway or starting shortly. At Disneyland Resort, that's the World of Color lagoon show, the remake of Paradise Pier, the remake of the DCA main entrance and addition of the Red Car, the new Little Mermaid E Ticket, and the addition of the Cars Land expansion area.

But even then, those things have merely been announced and formally christened by Bob Iger and Jay Rasulo at big press events. Those weren't promises, and if Disney has a hard time securing funding in the next few years they may not happen or may be delayed by years.

 

[WDW1974]

Funny how Universal and Busch are investing in their parks despite the ongoing economic disaster, but Disney (which is on much better footing) continues to believe cutting back quality while raising prices and marketing the magic will continue to fill 30,000 resort rooms/timeshares.

The stalest MK of them all will likely remain so right on through its 40th b-day, which will likely be as ignored as its 30th and 35th milestones were. It takes years for attractions to get built and Mermaid, which was the closest thing to a sure thing, would have struggled for a 2011 opening if construction began early next year. Now? You're likely looking at 2014 or so ... so another six years of bleh ...

As to Space Mountain, while I don't know the specifics, any issues with the scope of its redo likely were more on an ops/TDO end than a major budget issue with Burbank as the money was decided quite a bit ago. So, if they're going for a seven-month redo I don't even want to think about what will be or won't be done. But it will likely be more cosmetic than anything and on that sorry old ride that simply won't cut it.

It really sounds like a period where WDW is going to stagnate because of a real economic crisis (and our economy has pulled down many other nations with it, so all those Europeans and South Americans and Asians that TWDC has counted on to fill its rooms and coffers aren't likely to be coming anymore than most Americans) and a very fiscally conservative 'leadership' team that won't invest in the parks now in order to fill them when we pick up the pieces of our shattered economy.

Oh well, I can't complain ... in the past six months I haven't set foot in my 'local' resort but have been to Anaheim twice and Hong Kong once. Didn't feel like I've been missing anything either.

If not for Halloween Horror Nights and EPCOT's Food and Wine Fest, I likely wouldn't be visiting again in 2008.

2009 should be very, very, very interesting ...

 

[DisneyWales]

Personally, I'm happy for them to play the wait and see game, as long as there is a payoff eventually.

So ill take 2 Fantasmics a week, and AIE, and all the other half baked ideas at the moment, because i have faith in Disney, that in the long run (id say 2-3 years) things will start to be on the up.

Its still the best place on the planet to pass time, and anything that ADD's more stuff to the parks is a win win for me.

Of all the ideas, rumors and stuff thats been floating around, none of them are really talking about taking anything way (apart from Snow White, but I've only even been on that once so....)

If the new Snow White is more like the Mummy and Universal, i.e. you go through various show scene's i think it could be amazing. I kinda see it in my head like this:-

Snow White singing at well, Evil Queen over looks and look a tad upset. Next we see Queen speaking to mirror and sending for Snow White to be Killed. Cue short Rollercoaster sequence of snow white fleeing in the woods, finally slowing down at house in distance. Some more scene of Snow white whistling while she works etc. As we travel upstairs she's asleep, cut to mine and Dwarfs digging etc, then another coaster section as we travel thru the mine etc, this could lead to a medium drop outside the front of the show building like Crush coaster on Paris to create kinetics for the ride and act as a Winnie for the new mini land, then back inside the house and the dwarfs discover Snow White and so on. Kinda a new spin on the old dark ride system. keeping the coaster mild thrills so the younger can enjoy it.

Now I doubt it would be that detailed, due to cost and space needed, but hey I'm talking my own blue sky here, but thats how i see a Snow White Mine Train ride working in my head anyway.

As for the Toon Town redesign I'm all for it, the only time I visit Toon Town is when it Halloween and I want lots of Candy and to get back to Space. It not very attractive, or very clever, so I wont miss the tents if they went.

Plus to be honest if the older members here enjoyed Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, I would be very surprised, it aimed at like 6 year old, who are the main audience of this land, so it kinda makes sense to use the current hot franchise for the redesign/rejig of this land.

Now I'm not saying everything is going to turn out rosy, and everything Disney is going to do is going to be great (almost everything they have done in Epcot for the last 2-3 years has bugged me a little), its just like to think things can only get better.

Gosh thats a long post.... Sorry folks