DTD: The hits just keep on coming...

[MKCP 1985]

Boardwalk is just an amenity for Epcot resort hotel guests. That's the way it comes across anyway.

Which makes staying at an Epcot resort hotel a pretty cool experience, except for how placid the boardwalk really is 99% of the time.

 

[marni1971]

But Eisner wanted to recreate Disney in his image

Without drifting too OT (for a change!) don`t you think Eisner was a thrid/half of the dream team for his first decade in office? He - and it - only went downhill in the mid 90`s. After that it - and he - crashed and burned.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Before I comment, could we please stop with the ridiculous and immature straw dog arguments? They are almost painful in their silliness.

Sorry but it is true. There was a Disney before Eisner that would have never considered something like PI. Not bashing Eisner, he got more right than wrong at WDW. But you probably don't know the pre-Eisner Disney. It existed and it had a massive fan base. But Eisner wanted to recreate Disney in his image. And he wanted Disney to offer a wider range of entertainment to appeal to a larger audience. The problem was he often alienated more people than he won over. The jury is out on how his ventures actually helped TWDC. I contend that if Disney had stayed true to Walt's vision the company would be smaller but the quality of it's products would be much better. WDW74 thinks the problem lies with current management but it really goes back to the divergence from it's founders ideals under Eisner.

Two words: Disney Renaissance.

This was part of it.

I know what you are getting at but I don't agree. They did everything they could to keep PI afloat. Everything failed, they just couldn't bail fast enough. Epcot will return however.

Pure comedy gold. Or should that be puerile.

If they did, it would still be here.

And yeah, EPCOT.

 

[jt04]

Boardwalk is just an amenity for Epcot resort hotel guests. That's the way it comes across anyway.

Which makes staying at an Epcot resort hotel a pretty cool experience, except for how placid the boardwalk really is 99% of the time.

A lot of people love the "placid" vibe of the boardwalk. That is actually a strength of the resort not a weakness. Especially appreciated by those who want to escape the hectic pace of the theme parks. And it is an amenity for the resort guests but even more so for the DVC which is why it needs to offer a nice variety of quality foods and at several price points. I think the Boardwalk has the potential to be the best DVC at WDW.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Im sure Im not a demographic of 1, despite my unique wonderfulness.

The change you refer to is replacing i venue with another, and as I remember it Spoodles had changed because according the Mouse managers Colonials couldnt handle exotic foods, mac and cheese or a burger were the limits.

Disney should improve their existing eateries and ditch the homogenised menus, but that doesnt resole the underlying issue of people having increased expectations, a problem not unique to Disney.

They could offer live music, but the band had better be good, but how do you avoid falling to the blandometer when trying to be as broad as possible?

Comedy show, tough trying to live up to the mouses cleaner than though image and still be funny without being twee.

Dinner shows, please no Ive served my penance.

I cant see how maintaining one set of values is compatible with adult night time entertainment, even without polls and dollar bills.

 

[jt04]

Two words: Disney Renaissance.

This was part of it.



If they did, it would still be here.

And yeah, EPCOT.

We have yet to see the real Disney Renaissance. But there are promising signs. Yep, very promising signs on the horizons.

 

[SirGoofy]

We have yet to see the real Disney Renaissance. But there are promising signs. Yep, very promising signs on the horizons.

And I see promising signs that it will begining raining money, and cows will no longer produce milk, but a life extending nectar, also!

 

[nibblesandbits]

Well, I've read this entire thread and you can bet I've got some comments:

:king: But Goofy is right, it is hard to put into words how awesome it really is.

The ironic thing is that Disney is trying to make the parks more interactive for guests because people like to be more hands on these days instead of just riding through something they cannot control...yet, they closed down a perfect template for success that did it for 19 years.

This quote depicts EXACTLY what I said when I sent my letters to Disney. The Adv. Club was that interactive experience and different every time experience that Disney has been attempting to do in their parks...and it was great. And despite it being a grown up club...it was very Disney feeling inside...

And as a reminder to those who maybe have forgotten...the term "Disney" isn't supposed to be associated with "kiddie", despite the fact that in recent years, it most certainly has. No, instead, it should associated with a quality of product and the Adv. Club had the Disney quality of product inside.

Funnily enough, that used to be Pleasure Island.

TDO. Serves you right.

Exactly...

Walt wanted a place where families could experience fun and exciting adventures together. PI did the exact opposite.

Anybody who thinks PI was in keeping with that goal is being absurd.

Families come in all shapes and sizes...I'm a family of 2...me and my husband...I love it. And I had wanted to take my mom there, unfortunately, they closed it before I got the chance...

PI failed because it forgot the family.

If TDO can't fill those venues (which I seriously doubt) then it is because of a lack of will or vision. I don't think that is the case.

Oh, and I also hope it is not the case for those charged with the transition.

No...sorry to reiterate the most common sense reason for why Disney closed PI...and the reason that angers a lot of us Adv. Club fans...

Disney closed PI not because of families...sure, they tried to blame it on that...but that most certainly wasn't the MAJOR reason for the closure.

No...instead the reason was in fact greed and money. Disney knew that by closing the clubs and selling the venue space to 3rd party companies...that they'd make more money...simple as that.

Unfortunately, Disney is all about making as much money as they can now...even at the expense of the guests in many cases. This was one of those cases. And to not see that is being very blindsided.

PI was a realization of the fact that the definition of family is different for everyone. My family consists of my parents (late 40's), my sister (15), and myself (22). PI (CW and AC specifically) would be a perfect option for us now. My point being, family doesn't have to conform to the stereotype of a husband, wife, and 2.5 kids. Families come in all shapes, sizes, and ages.

Your definition of family is as much of a creation of current Disney marketing as "magic"

Exactly...and what I made mention of earlier. Not every family is the "nuclear" family that Disney advertises.

I've already explained that. But if your local mall locked all of it's tenants into a backstory and that backstory became out of style.... that would be a big problem. Just using the "mall" as a rough analogy.

Um...backstories really can't go out of style...no...instead what happened was they dropped any sembalance of backstory there when they did some of the revamping from the original days. Matter of fact, once I heard the actual backstory from what it was in the beginning...it's actually a really great story. Do you know the real backstory?

Oh and if backstories can go out of style, than they better re-think the backstory at Blizzard Beach...and the one at Typhoon Lagoon too...because those are just as likely go to out of style too then...

The backstory of PI never went out of style. The clubs just got outdated and not updated.

Exactly...and outdated, unupdated clubs is what killed PI. (Well, that and removing the turn styles.)

No, not everyone wins.
I don't see the win in having go leave Disney property in order to enjoy PI style entertainment.

And I'm thinking that Disney doesn't think they win by having people go off property to get entertainment. Didn't they just do this whole campaign a few years ago trying to keep people from venturing off property? You know, where they got you a bus to ride on so you could be immersed that that Disney magic as soon as you landed...where they created a dining plan that is basically all you need and creates a sort of all-inclusive atmosphere...oh...and creating tickets prices so that it was cheaper the more days you went to the parks, thus making a trip to Uni or Sea World "stupid" because it was only $2 to add an additional day to a Disney ticket vs andother $75 to go to the other parks?

No matter how profitable the nightclub business is, PI hadn't turned a profit in years. It seemed busy on certain days, especially Thursday nights, but it was overrun with CP kids and freaky locals who thought the actors at the AC and CW were their personal court jesters.

Back in the 90s, PI was immensely popular and was not, as some have claimed, "Eisner's Folly." In fact, PI originally featured a roller rink for the family—not every family has three screaming brats in overpriced princess dresses. The roller rink closed because the clubs were extremely popular.

You have to remember, this was during the late 80s and early-mid 90s, when the dance scene was popular for everyone. Look at the awfully cheesy music videos from the time—that was considered cutting-edge and cool! Nowadays, clubbing in the U.S. mostly means "teenagers and niche demographics (like Goths)" unless you live in NYC, LA, or Miami. Disney tried attracting the teens by removing the ticket booths, and we all know how well that worked.

IMO, the original PI worked for three reasons:
1. Disney opened it at a time when the Touchstone label was highly valuable. Roger Rabbit, The Rocketeer, D--- Tracy, and other films gave Disney a multifaceted public image that wasn't all about little kids. Disney wasn't making direct-to-video cheapquals and Mickey Mouse wasn't just the emcee for a preschool clubhouse.
2. Disney was still publicizing WDW as a resort for everyone, not just a castle for kids. EPCOT Center and the D-MGM Studios were highly advertised, and the MK wasn't character-centric like it is now (only FL really featured fairy tales).
3. The nightclub culture covered a huge demographic who wanted to dance like Michael, sing like Whitney, and flash their leg warmers, neon shirts, and ozone-depleting hairspray.

IMO, PI failed because...
1. Eisner eventually made Disney a cash-hungry, bloated corporation that forgot about imagination and creativity after TLM, BATB, Aladdin, and TLK made bucket-loads of money. Under his last few years, Disney films became synonymous with cheap, direct-to-video trash suitable only for babysitting.

2. WDW is advertised as a place where preschoolers' dreams come true, and you can choke on the magic as the magical lands of a magical world whisk you away into magic for a magical time. We know WDW provides more than that, but during the 80s and 90s, everyone knew it. Disney advertised the MK, Epcot, the Studios, golfing, and PI. Now they advertise the castle, because that's how they can make money off the BB Boutique and dress sales.

3. The club culture shifted towards niche demographics. Music videos aren't popular (look at MTV) and the idea of being a dancing/singing/video star for a night doesn't attract people. We've shifted away from the "let's all dance" culture of the 80s and 90s to one of "let's watch the kids on AI and the pros on 'Dancing with the Stars.'" Meanwhile, although groups of people do still enjoy the club scene, most of them aren't interested in a Disney version. Disney refused to reinvest and make PI attractive toward the new club scene, and PI failed.

This I agree with 150%...and is unfortunate.

WARNING: Must be read with an open mind. No emotions allowed.

But do you really think that people went to WDW for PI? I know some did when it was new and a small percentage of those kept going back because they liked it.

But I know for a fact that many long time WDW vistors were so perplexed by the concept and how it was such a radical departure from what WDW and TWDC had been that they never set foot on property again. And we are not talking fundamentalist necessarily but those that were offended by Disney glamorizing drinking. Not passing judgement on either the PI fans or those offended by it. Just saying it cost Disney far more than anyone can ever quantify. And it could even be argued that when PI opened was just about the exact time if not THE exact time standards at WDW began to decline. Coincidence? I don't think so.

And when PI is officially declared dead and WDW decides to cater to families again, then you will see the beginning of the WDW renaissance!:sohappy:

Don't shoot the messenger. :lookaroun

No...of course we didn't necessarily go to Disney just for PI...however, for some of us...it was a big part of our vacations.

And sorry, I don't get the "glamorized" drinking thing...and I should be one who knows a thing or two about not drinking...I'm the perrenial Designated Driver...

Personally, I don't want them at Walt Disney World anyway if they are that closed minded. Should we shut down World Showcase too? I bet more alcohol is consumed there on a daily basis than at PI.

I bet these are the same people that....:zipit: I'm not gonna say anymore.

Exactly...I've seen more visably drunk people at World Showcase than I did at PI. And while Drinking Around the World isn't "sanctioned" by Disney...they really aren't doing anything to stop it now either...matter of fact, aren't they building a new tequila bar in the Mexico pavilion?

Emotions getting the best of you.

There is a huge difference between WS and PI. While many were disappointed by the decision to brink alcohol into Disney parks in masse, WS did not glamorize excess drinking. Instead it was presented as a cultural experience. Of course there are those that can't stand drinking that does not equal drunkeness and they can now be found staggering around WS as they drink "around the world" while tripping over kids trying to enjoy their Kim Possible adventure.

I'm pretty the sure the drinking in World Showcase was there first...

I don't understand the point of, "but what about this", "but what about that". The same situation remains. As long as Disney glamorizes drinking, they are losing a massive demographic. Simple as that. Adding a lounge or nightclub is not what PI did. And Disney frowns on the drunkeness in WS. But if you do that and trip over a kid and hurt them (God forbid) you would deserve everthing that then happens to you.

How do you know Disney frowns on the drunkeness of World Showcase...I mean really? How do you know that?

Like I said before, if Disney had a problem with it, they would do something about it. They wouldn't keep adding additional areas to get drinks from...plain and simple.

Boardwalk as a business venture can only be seen as a failure. The boardwalk not the DVC. Which is why it is also going to be transformed. Basically it was PI lite. And it needs fixing.

I'm not seeing Disney making any real changes to the Boardwalk area, with the exception of Spoodles being replaced by another restaurant. That's it...I've heard nothing about them doing anything to that area. And from what I hear (haven't experienced...maybe this next trip I will) Jellyrolls is a lot of fun and gets crowds.

 

[jt04]

Im sure Im not a demographic of 1, despite my unique wonderfulness.

The change you refer to is replacing i venue with another, and as I remember it Spoodles had changed because according the Mouse managers Colonials couldnt handle exotic foods, mac and cheese or a burger were the limits.

Disney should improve their existing eateries and ditch the homogenised menus, but that doesnt resole the underlying issue of people having increased expectations, a problem not unique to Disney.

They could offer live music, but the band had better be good, but how do you avoid falling to the blandometer when trying to be as broad as possible?

Comedy show, tough trying to live up to the mouses cleaner than though image and still be funny without being twee.

Dinner shows, please no Ive served my penance.

I cant see how maintaining one set of values is compatible with adult night time entertainment, even without polls and dollar bills.

The boardwalk just doesn't have the foot traffic to support live music, or dinner shows. DTD however can.

Hoop-dee-doo has proven for several decades to be able to pack people in while still adhering to Disney standards. I love the rumor of it possibly moving to DTD.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

We have yet to see the real Disney Renaissance. But there are promising signs. Yep, very promising signs on the horizons.

!?!?



WTH were the 90's then!?

Even the 80's!?

Wit each question, I worry a bit more, jt...:lookaroun:lol:

 

[nibblesandbits]

I think it isn't high on the priority list. The rebuild, not enticing you in. They just announced a replacement for Spoodles so I think that is an indicator. I personally think it will be with offerings that help keep the DVC full and draw the area resort guests. Somewhat similar to how they just rebuilt the Contemporary offerings to better serve the new DVC and CR guests.

Basically a better variety and quality of eateries and basic services to area guests. For entertainment I think most options will now be at DTD since access to the boardwalk is difficult for most on-property guests and locals. Plus Epcot is just around the corner, just a short walk away.

How? They are replacing a restaurant (which could have been a 3rd party restaurant...maybe it wasn't...) with a third party restaurant. That's not the death knoll at The Boardwalk...

That was just a switch up of the type of restaurant. (And if Spoodles wasn't a 3rd party restaurant, than it furthers my proof that Disney just realizes it's easier to get money from 3rd party vendors and not have to do anything...which is pretty lazy in my opinion.)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

How? They are replacing a restaurant (which could have been a 3rd party restaurant...maybe it wasn't...) with a third party restaurant. That's not the death knoll at The Boardwalk...

That was just a switch up of the type of restaurant. (And if Spoodles wasn't a 3rd party restaurant, than it furthers my proof that Disney just realizes it's easier to get money from 3rd party vendors and not have to do anything...which is pretty lazy in my opinion.)

Agreed on all accounts. Why was PI left to die while BW survives? They have clubs, too...

 

[jt04]

And I see promising signs that it will begining raining money, and cows will no longer produce milk, but a life extending nectar, also!

It is raining money at TWDC especially compared to the rest of the economy.

See the stock price, then see the new makeover of DCA, then see the new Washington DC DVC. Then see the bluesky disney blog for a rundown of the movies in the pipeline. Just some examples off the top of my head.

 

[nibblesandbits]

Agreed on all accounts. Why was PI left to die while BW survives? They have clubs, too...

Yes...I was wondering why, when this was announced that this new 3rd party restaurant was going into the Boardwalk, rather than the area they closed for all these new, exciting 3rd party ventures they had coming in? Why not keep the restaurant you already have and build this new restarant in this "wasteland" currently have sitting there?

 

[SirGoofy]

See the stock price, then see the new makeover of DCA, then see the new Washington DC DVC. Then see the bluesky disney blog for a rundown of the movies in the pipeline. Just some examples off the top of my head.

Stock price could drop in an instant. I'll give you DCA, but I'm still with holding judgment until they deliver what they have promised. Washington DVC isn't don yet, and who knows how good it'll be.

And movies? Are talking about the 20K fiasco? Or Lone Ranger(Clooney? Seriously? :hurl? Or the crapfest that will be Tomorrowland? Other than Pixar, there are no sure-fire wins when it comes to Disney movies.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The boardwalk just doesn't have the foot traffic to support live music, or dinner shows. DTD however can.

Hoop-dee-doo has proven for several decades to be able to pack people in while still adhering to Disney standards. I love the rumor of it possibly moving to DTD.

Sorry I was talking about DTD, I had brought the Boardwalk up because to me it was even more boring and direction less than the defunct PI.


Im sure somefolk would also be thrilled at the prospect of such a move, and no doubt some will be apoplectic.

I can only talk about my tastes so indulge me. When I go on a break I dont want to do what I could do at home, so if Disney wants to hook me and my filthy lucre it has to engage my interest. Or offer me popular activities with some of that fictitious Disney magic, bowling but themed, something to make it stand out. Move the crazy golf :shrug:

Ill be honest I dont have any answers I dont know what im looking for, but I know damn well what I dont want.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yes...I was wondering why, when this was announced that this new 3rd party restaurant was going into the Boardwalk, rather than the area they closed for all these new, exciting 3rd party ventures they had coming in? Why not keep the restaurant you already have and build this new restarant in this "wasteland" currently have sitting there?

Thank you! Had the same thought, when I read the article!

Maybe its for their "Bold New Vision" With "Unique Shopping and Dining"


...And hopefully AC is somewhere in that. I need to experience this thing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know what you are getting at but I don't agree. They did everything they could to keep PI afloat. Everything failed, they just couldn't bail fast enough. Epcot will return however.

Boardwalk as a business venture can only be seen as a failure. The boardwalk not the DVC. Which is why it is also going to be transformed. Basically it was PI lite. And it needs fixing.

The boardwalk just doesn't have the foot traffic to support live music, or dinner shows. DTD however can.

Hoop-dee-doo has proven for several decades to be able to pack people in while still adhering to Disney standards. I love the rumor of it possibly moving to DTD.

These are just your opinions that you keep stating as facts.

 

[jt04]

How? They are replacing a restaurant (which could have been a 3rd party restaurant...maybe it wasn't...) with a third party restaurant. That's not the death knoll at The Boardwalk...

That was just a switch up of the type of restaurant. (And if Spoodles wasn't a 3rd party restaurant, than it furthers my proof that Disney just realizes it's easier to get money from 3rd party vendors and not have to do anything...which is pretty lazy in my opinion.)

It's not lazy, it's smart. Spoodles is just the start I think. Disney is an entertainment company not a restarant company. Disney is doing it's guests a favor by bringing in 3rd parties to run it's eateries. 3rd parties that are experts at what they do. :slurp:

 

[nibblesandbits]

Thank you! Had the same thought, when I read the article!

Maybe its for their "Bold New Vision" With "Unique Shopping and Dining"


...And hopefully AC is somewhere in that. I need to experience this thing.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was kinda curious about that one...it didn't make any sense.