Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You are an active voice in an established community with credibility. It sounds like your concerns are not with a social media strategy, but rather questioning the credibility or impact of random mommy blogger.

I take you back to the product review analogy. You don't follow anyone on amazon or tripadvisor, etc.. you take the reviews in and try to determine their credibility based on their content and maybe some metrics the platform offers (# of followers, rating, etc). Social media strategies can include 'ground swell' and not just chasing key influencers. In fact, one of the key ways to combat unfriendly influencers is to simply flood their message out. And that's exactly what they are doing - going for volume.

Partially, true. I am not at all an anti-social media Spirit. I just don't see the value in it the way TWDC chooses to use/abuse it.

Your point about amazon and TripAdvisor are very well taken because I DO use those sites and I DO respect them. But they also aren't a corporation like Disney in essence selling its own BRAND.

I don't see reviews and rankings of Disney parks, attractions, resorts/hotels, restaurants etc on the official Parks Blog.

I bolded a bit above because that IS what Disney is trying to do. Again, Duncan Wardle proudly clucks that for every negative comment about WDW online that there are 18 positives. I don't buy that at all. But I bet there are far more positives than negatives. And part of his job brief, I am sure, is to make sure voices like mine are shouted down.


But they can still be google hits.. and really how many of WDW's potential audience do you really believe would flock to a site like WDWMagic, or Inside the Magic first... vs typing a term into a search box and start walking the hits.

I think you have points about how much they may invest in a signal, insignificant blogger, but in doing so you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater and damning all social media as a waste. That is a very old media type of position where they believe only the voices they trust, count.
I

I don't believe social media is a waste at all.

I DO believe the way TWDC uses it is. I'd run that department in a different fashion from top to bottom (yeah, most of the current bloggers would be unemployed!)

But the mommy bloggers out number you.. and for the random potential customer... seeing 50 different sites all repeating a positive message.. vs one random forum poster.. your credibility and impact is measured in a very small window.. and weighed against a tidal wave of contrary opinions. In most cases, the less informed the reader is, the more likely the 'mob opinion' will win over the contrary opinion.

The mom's panel isn't there to sway the industry or diehards... it's to feed the message to the up and coming customers and help upsell those on the fence.

Disney is using carpet bombing.. and empowering smaller, more easily influenced sources. They are trying to make them champions.. so they can go forth and spread the company line. They are not trying to build up people to be new influential writers. They are taking the power of many, over trying to build a few.

It's just another marketing strategy... be it if you were pursing radio vs print vs tv. Using affiliates to echo your message instead of direct marketing is not anything radical. It's just using a new network and with a new type of affiliate.

I don't really disagree with that at all. I just fundamentally disagree with Disney's conclusion that it is paying off with any real dividends. I don't buy it. And it doesn't help that the folks selling it (to Disney and therefore us) are getting paid very handsomely to spout that babble.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I realize that you are an International Jetsetter, and have a lot of irons in the fire right now, so I haven't called you lately. Let me know when you plan on calling, and I'll try to be sober. I can't promise that though.

You sure do start some worthless threads. I'm still back on page 16 of this thread. By the time I get caught up, WDW will probably have opened a 5th gate, and expanded the monorail system to all the Parks and Resort.

Phil wised up, and is double shredding everything that he puts out in his trash. Including the banana peels.

Yes, the problem with being an International Jetsetter is when you are stuck in Florida for an entire summer ... BLECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I shall drop you a note and try and follow up with phone later this week!

And you know me, if it isn't worthless, then it ain't worth my time starting it! I think I've become quite prolific at starting these type of threads. I'm sure it's to cover for something lacking elsewhere ...

Only on Page 16? I think I need to go back to the OP to see exactly what the thread started about since I am not Eddie Sotto where one thread fits all!

Very upsetting news on Phil. I think I'm going to move you over to Kevin Myers' trash. I heard he's going vegan and I need proof he's a typical lying Disney scoundrel!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
From Iger...
"With most of the Fantasyland money spent, the Disney Fantasy cruise ship launched and the makeover of Disney California Adventure complete, "this will be the peak year for our capital expenditures in our domestic parks-and-resorts business," Iger said. "Going forward, we expect each one of these projects to deliver strong returns on invested capital that will exceed our hurdle rate and drive improvement in our overall returns.""

Doesn't sound like anything is about to happen for the next two years. I would be surprised if we hear anything during this fiscal year. I keep hearing Iger repeat this over and over. Sounds like they are letting the Disney Domestic Parks ride it out....unless when he says, "this will be the peak year for our capital expenditures in our domestic parks-and-resorts business", he means Avatar and the expansion to DHS is already in those expenditures.
Sounds like Iger really expects Fantasyland Expansion to do AMAZING business!

What it sounds like is typical Iger talk to analysts/reporters ... I wouldn't read anything into that beyond they won't spend as much on P&R CAPEX in the next few fiscal years as they did in the past few. That isn't surprising at all. The two ships alone cost a bit over $2 billion and while DCL will expand (likely just one ship this go around) that's years from now and that number is off the books ... so many projects are going off the books in 2013, so that Disney can do plenty of spending and still not equal 2012.

But ... Iger could also be flat out lying or simply ready to use the 'circumstances change' excuse.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
What's the real reason? Was it poor attendance?

It was many things.

Park infrastructure needed work. It wasn't as popular as the newer parks. It was dead when the lake water started to chill in late fall. It was tough to get to unless you were staying at the WL, the Contemporary or FW. They didn't feel they needed three water parks, which is strange because they've had another planned since before RC was shuttered.
 

basas

Well-Known Member
Did anyone catch how Disney are trying to promote 7D has a mountain... Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill...

I caught that too. Not that we should be surprised. After all, we’re continually being told how this is the LARGEST expansion in MK history...even though one ride is essentially a replacement of the now-closed Snow White ride and the other is offset by the long-ago closure of 20K Leagues. In fact, when you include the number of attractions which have closed over the years (skyway, canoes, keelboats), the MK of 1992 had more attractions than the MK of 2012 (!) and this doesn't even take into account closed shops and restaurants. The park has gone 2 decades without an e-ticket addition...and people are actually saying things have never been better!?

The staleness of WDW is why my latest trip (last weekend) was to the DLR where I was able to see Carsland (loved RsR, but don't see how it would work without the entire 'land' around it). I was also able to ride the Little Mermaid (our "big" addition in the FL expansion), but was not overly impressed. Don’t get me wrong- it’s no Stitch’s Great Escape, but it’s also no Haunted Mansion...and even on a very busy day at DCA, the ride barely sustained a 10 minute wait (which apparently is pretty common). Of course, I’m sure they’ll artificially inflate that number in Florida with the addition of FP.

Anyway- it sounds as if there might finally be some light at the end of the tunnel. A major re-work of DHS is badly needed but is just the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully we'll finally start seeing some investment in the Florida parks...not just new additions, but also the maintenance and renewal of existing attractions and infrastructure.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So will moonshine.

I do miss the banter between you and CBOMB. It certainly beats (deleted)'s posts.

True enough ... and I do too, but it's actually better by phone ... then I can let loose on soooo many topics not fit for here and not censor myself.

You know, I really think I am more entertaining in real life than the crazy Spirit is here ... BUT the important thing is we BOTH off people at Disney (and other places too!):D;):cool:
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
I would appreciate it if everyone would stay on topic, and stop bringing up personal conflicts. Also please stop making disparaging remarks while mentioning people by their "real" names. Or occupations. And please leave other websites out of this one. Thank you.
 

disneyflush

Well-Known Member
Very impressed. Either you are a speed reader or you did some skimming. I don't think I could go back and read that again ... unless it becomes part of a book of mine (oh, a real book ... not a fanboi/blogger deal!)
I read everything up until about post 600 then started skipping a bit. I wanted to know everything at the beginning but after a few hours I just wanted to know if they shut down LM's tours or not.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I caught that too. Not that we should be surprised. After all, we’re continually being told how this is the LARGEST expansion in MK history...
Only by the press machine.

Tomorrowland 74-75 produced more onstage area that was previously not available to guests (true expansion) and more attractions.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Partially, true. I am not at all an anti-social media Spirit. I just don't see the value in it the way TWDC chooses to use/abuse it.

Your point about amazon and TripAdvisor are very well taken because I DO use those sites and I DO respect them. But they also aren't a corporation like Disney in essence selling its own BRAND.

Consumer Product reviews are a good analogy because most people use them and provide a clean abstract. The idea is that the reviewers are essentially anonymous to you.. you do not have any association with the reviewer or predispositions about them.. and you *scan* several reviews to get an idea of the real conclusions rather than just read one source. Even in the era of traditional magazine reviewers, CNet, Consumer Reports, etc.. people still see value and put weight in these volumes of anonymous, even unqualified, reviews.

A casual researcher is not going to know where to go first.. so they will do some searching, do some scanning, and find a source that speaks in terms that they can relate to. Lets be honest.. a site like WDWMagic is rather intimidating to a casual Disney person, and extracting the impact even from the front page news could be daunting for a casual reader.

I don't see reviews and rankings of Disney parks, attractions, resorts/hotels, restaurants etc on the official Parks Blog.

Why would there be? It's a corporate outreach blog - not a community or host of user submitted content. The hate on Disney Parks Blog is misguided. It's a platform to communicate the corporate PR or a message to speak to it's customers. Look at other company blogs.. google for instance - http://googleblog.blogspot.com/ - you won't find it to be about reviews, user submissions, 3rd party opinions, etc. What the Disney Parks has done has made it interesting to the mass audience by throwing out the bones the Disney fanbase always .. upcoming attraction info, backstage views, company-access only stuff, etc. It's a one-way street... I don't understand how anyone would expect it to be anything but that.

I don't buy the argument that people just Google WDW when getting ready for their first ever trip and if Lou Mongello's podcast comes up first, or Jeff Lange's Buy My DVDs, or Kevin Yee's Column of the Week, or OhioFanboiSpaceMountainLVER's come up first that's where they go and decide whether to take that first $9,000 MAGICal WDW vacation based on that. I just think that's a crock (I don't believe you are saying this, but others have)

No one is going to make their entire trip decision based on reading one post on some site.. but they can INFLUENCE when, what they do, etc. Reviews of FLE or Carsland may not make someone snap decide to head to WDW/DLR.. but they may help push them over the line.. or possibly even alter existing plans.

It's all about a chorus of voices to gain reach and build 'common opinion'. You don't need the world's #1 columnist on your side, if you have 99% of all the other columnist on your side :)

And honestly, if you have any concern over your message getting out to these casual visitors - you, not Disney - are going about it all wrong. No mommy in NJ is going to look at a 1000 post thread on Laughing Place, or even a thread like this on WDWMagic. Your tact is aimed at swaying the hardcore follower audience - ironically, the audience that is likely to spend money at Disney regardless of being happy or not with Disney. While this audience may be the most energetic - its also smaller and not going to hit Disney fast and hard like large reach influencers on the casual audience may be (bad press at the national level... travel influencers like airline costs, etc).

You methods may work for the long term tone towards the company in the community - but they don't work for making a commercial impact in the near term. Posting behind a faceless name with no credentials and no portfolio that is easily surmised does not sway the open public. Going back to Save Disney for instance, it takes a face, a message, and substance to get people to rally behind. Roy had his past and Disney name to help be that beacon to rally behind. It took that figurehead that people could identify and buy into. You'll never have that with an anonymous discussion forum post. You are dooming yourself to a perennial community curmudgeon rather than a force to shake the company up. Respected in the microcosm - but ineffective in the larger war effort.

I DO believe the way TWDC uses it is. I'd run that department in a different fashion from top to bottom (yeah, most of the current bloggers would be unemployed!)

[...]

I don't really disagree with that at all. I just fundamentally disagree with Disney's conclusion that it is paying off with any real dividends. I don't buy it. And it doesn't help that the folks selling it (to Disney and therefore us) are getting paid very handsomely to spout that babble.

That's your prerogative, and without any real insight into their investment vs other methods, I really don't have footing to make my own opinion on their effectiveness or what metrics they use. Nor do I really care how internal employees are able to justify themselves or not to their superiors. I have no interest in internal politics in a company that I never will have to work directly with.

But I have to imagine that pumping the internet with FLE news for 12 months solid with teasers and tours certainly has a lot more staying power and reach then paying for expensive TV productions to run teasers on national TV, or produce travel shows, or buy into morning coach shows for just a week or two.. and then have to find a way to sustain that surge over long periods of time.

I would imagine The Disney Parks Blog being one of the most successful initiatives they've had in marketing in a very long time.
 

El Grupo

Well-Known Member
Not enough money. A billion isn't enough.

I'd start with simple basics. More money on cleanliness and upkeep and some fresh entertainment, even live UNIONIZED musicians and show quality. Then smaller things like stage shows and parades that add a fresh feeling ... then, well, I'd probably take the two parks with the biggest needs (EPCOT and Studios) and see what WDI could offer for what I had left.

But WDW has been so neglected and is so stale that I really think a billion would be just a drop in the bucket ... I think the parks alone need close to $500 million to a billion EACH ... then you need a few billion for infrastructure like monorail expansion, road and bridge and electrical work etc. It is a daunting number.

And wouldn't have been needed if they say in 1997 they didn't just stop doing the basics ... and kept investing beyond timeshares, hotels and the very occassional attraction.

Absolutely agree. To first bring WDW back to early '90s level of overall quality, and then make the additions/refurbs that should have been completed in the last decade, I could see Disney easily needing to spending well over $5 billion for the Orlando property.

I like your recommendations. Reminds me of the same strategy often recommended by financial counselors to debtors that have become way overextended: pay off your smallest credit card first and move to the next. But, stay committed until everything is paid off.

TWDC should commit to have a massive revitalization project for the entire resort that will be completed by the 50th anniversary. Start Oct. 1 with the smaller steps, but begin plans for major upgrades to all parks and spread the costs over the next 9 fiscal years.

Seems to be plenty of time to make this happen if Disney begins moving asap.
 

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