Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[WDW1974]

I read everything up until about post 600 then started skipping a bit. I wanted to know everything at the beginning but after a few hours I just wanted to know if they shut down LM's tours or not.

No.

Have no idea how often they actually happen, though. They are still advertised on his site.

 

[Rasvar]

You're sure, but you're very wrong. I deal with tickets on a daily basis and I can tell you of the thousands I see each day a disproportionate majority are 1-day 1-park tickets.

Ok, I stand corrected. I've never been with anyone who purchased a one day ticket in fifteen years.

 

[flynnibus]

The only question I really have ... and, perhaps, Steve is better answering but it looks like Disney's social media conultants names were edited out of a post (I think ... again, I can't keep up with everything here). I would wonder why, if so

probably because you keep trying to make it about individuals instead of the business or their practices.. you can do the latter without trying to drag individuals through the mud.

 

[WDW1974]

Consumer Product reviews are a good analogy because most people use them and provide a clean abstract. The idea is that the reviewers are essentially anonymous to you.. you do not have any association with the reviewer or predispositions about them.. and you *scan* several reviews to get an idea of the real conclusions rather than just read one source. Even in the era of traditional magazine reviewers, CNet, Consumer Reports, etc.. people still see value and put weight in these volumes of anonymous, even unqualified, reviews.

A casual researcher is not going to know where to go first.. so they will do some searching, do some scanning, and find a source that speaks in terms that they can relate to. Lets be honest.. a site like WDWMagic is rather intimidating to a casual Disney person, and extracting the impact even from the front page news could be daunting for a casual reader.

I don't know if we are in agreement or not or if something is being lost in translation. I am not disagreeing with any of the above. I don't feel that people make decisions on becoming Disney consumers by coming to this site any more than any other. Casual guests who are making plans for the first or second time, go to all the official (and non-official) planning sites.

Places like this exist more to bring together the bigtime fans. ... I doubt there are many folks who just sort of wander in here while trying to decide whether to drive from Trenton or fly and whether to stay at the Sheraton Vistana or rent a cabin at FW.

Why would there be? It's a corporate outreach blog - not a community or host of user submitted content. The hate on Disney Parks Blog is misguided. It's a platform to communicate the corporate PR or a message to speak to it's customers. Look at other company blogs.. google for instance - http://googleblog.blogspot.com/ - you won't find it to be about reviews, user submissions, 3rd party opinions, etc. What the Disney Parks has done has made it interesting to the mass audience by throwing out the bones the Disney fanbase always .. upcoming attraction info, backstage views, company-access only stuff, etc. It's a one-way street... I don't understand how anyone would expect it to be anything but that.

Again. I don't see anything we disagree on. I do believe that Disney can do a better job of 'faking it' than they do. There's a lot of things they could do, but choose not to. And, no, I am not going to place those items out here because in the real world I get paid to offer advice like that.

No one is going to make their entire trip decision based on reading one post on some site.. but they can INFLUENCE when, what they do, etc. Reviews of FLE or Carsland may not make someone snap decide to head to WDW/DLR.. but they may help push them over the line.. or possibly even alter existing plans.

Yes, but again. Those are people that are 90% or more sold on the MAGIC. They aren't a new audience. They may be new a Disney deluxe resort ... or a cruise ... or a visit to DLR vs. WDW ... but they are Disney nuts. Period.

It's all about a chorus of voices to gain reach and build 'common opinion'. You don't need the world's #1 columnist on your side, if you have 99% of all the other columnist on your side

And honestly, if you have any concern over your message getting out to these casual visitors - you, not Disney - are going about it all wrong. No mommy in NJ is going to look at a 1000 post thread on Laughing Place, or even a thread like this on WDWMagic. Your tact is aimed at swaying the hardcore follower audience - ironically, the audience that is likely to spend money at Disney regardless of being happy or not with Disney. While this audience may be the most energetic - its also smaller and not going to hit Disney fast and hard like large reach influencers on the casual audience may be (bad press at the national level... travel influencers like airline costs, etc).

You methods may work for the long term tone towards the company in the community - but they don't work for making a commercial impact in the near term. Posting behind a faceless name with no credentials and no portfolio that is easily surmised does not sway the open public. Going back to Save Disney for instance, it takes a face, a message, and substance to get people to rally behind. Roy had his past and Disney name to help be that beacon to rally behind. It took that figurehead that people could identify and buy into. You'll never have that with an anonymous discussion forum post. You are dooming yourself to a perennial community curmudgeon rather than a force to shake the company up. Respected in the microcosm - but ineffective in the larger war effort.

OK, the last part almost hurt my feelings (but then I realized what curmudgeon meant and started smiling a lot!)

But it seems like you're trying to ascribe some sort of Disney activist to me, when that isn't who I am or who I'd ever want to be. I want my voice heard in the fan community. History has proven that to be the case. I want my voice heard behind the scenes at Disney. History has proven that to be the case as well.

I'm not looking to be a figurehead behind a movement to hold Disney's feet to the proverbial fire. It just isn't who I am ... and you probably have no idea how many sites have asked me to write for them or podcasters who have asked me to be a guest etc. At the end of the day, I am happy with my role as it is.

That's your prerogative, and without any real insight into their investment vs other methods, I really don't have footing to make my own opinion on their effectiveness or what metrics they use. Nor do I really care how internal employees are able to justify themselves or not to their superiors. I have no interest in internal politics in a company that I never will have to work directly with.

But I have to imagine that pumping the internet with FLE news for 12 months solid with teasers and tours certainly has a lot more staying power and reach then paying for expensive TV productions to run teasers on national TV, or produce travel shows, or buy into morning coach shows for just a week or two.. and then have to find a way to sustain that surge over long periods of time.

I would imagine The Disney Parks Blog being one of the most successful initiatives they've had in marketing in a very long time.

I find it fascinating. And since media is my business, it might be more interesting to me than some others. Although, clearly a lot of Disney fans don't enjoy being treated in a disengenuous smarmy fashion. If so, places like this (and many others) would just die because we could all feel special by hanging out with the official bloggers.

I'd also guess that many fans would be fascinated by Disney's internal politics as it ultimately plays a big role in what they experience and how when they enter a Disney theme park.

 

[WDW1974]

I only wish we had some pictures of the Tomorrowland construction via the skyway!

I was there at the time ... but a little too overwhelmed by it all to be thinking of using my Kodak Instamatic on taking pics.

Sorry!

 

[WDW1974]

Disney World's market is much more global. It's visitor base is far more tourist vs local or even from Florida. At DL, the local SoCal market is the driving visitor market. You have a much much higher percentage of "locals" at Disneyland than you do at WDW. This means that the market they are dealing with is more prone to spur of the moment trips. This is why they have the Holiday overlays and WDW doesn't. Disneyland also has a higher percentage of AP's in their daily attendance. In Orlando, WDW is the big dog. People go to Orlando to go to Disney World. Vacationers around the world really don't go to Orlando to experience the city. In SoCal, you have the opposite. People come to visit all of the options in the metro area of which DL is just a small part of it. It's also why the AP discounts at Disneyland are much more extensive than at WDW. That is what I mean by more competitive. There is much more that DL has to be better than to get the visitors than WDW does. WDW is a much more global market where DL is much more local.

I think Grad Night is the perfect example of this. WDW no longer needs it. They got rid of it. It was heavily regional. Disneyland still has it.

Gonna leave the top part alone because I've been involved in that discussion too many times and I agree with more than I disagree.

The bottom item I'll just disagree with ... Grad Nights at WDW used to be special and draw schools are all over the East coast (yes, predominantly SE and FL), but they kept making it less special and killed it. That was their goal and they succeeded.

I believe DL is about to do likewise as they are moving the event to DCA next year.

It's a shame. I've had a lot of MAGICal time at WDW, but my Grad Night (wearing a tux with a RED bowtie!) is still one of the tops.

 

[WDW1974]

I wonder if Disney has a way to calculate single-day single park tickets sold and used at which parks.

Yes, they do.

 

[WDW1974]

You're sure, but you're very wrong. I deal with tickets on a daily basis and I can tell you of the thousands I see each day a disproportionate majority are 1-day 1-park tickets.

I believe that. I've heard the number of 1-2-3 day tickets bought is actually going up of late ... and that is part of Disney's concern, that WDW is becoming more of a 'part of' vacation than the whole vacation. And they are VERY worried that things like Transformers and Potter 2.0 and even SW's big expansion will result in more guests who in 2007 came and bought 8-day MYW with all the goodies tickets into two-day tickets to say MK and EPCOT (one day at each).

I thought I made that clear in the first few posts in this thread, but I can't remember (long term use of Pixie Dust also harms short term memory ... who knew?!)

 

[WDW1974]

probably because you keep trying to make it about individuals instead of the business or their practices.. you can do the latter without trying to drag individuals through the mud.

That's a bit of a low blow. I'm not trying to drag anyone through the mud. I'm putting the facts out and let people come to their own conclusions.

If someone advises Disney on social media, doncha think it's in their best interests to tell Disney whatever it wants to hear?

 

[Clever Name]

I've had a lot of MAGICal time at WDW, but my Grad Night (wearing a tux with a RED bowtie!) is still one of the tops.

Wow! You are a very young person.

 

[Rasvar]

Gonna leave the top part alone because I've been involved in that discussion too many times and I agree with more than I disagree.

The bottom item I'll just disagree with ... Grad Nights at WDW used to be special and draw schools are all over the East coast (yes, predominantly SE and FL), but they kept making it less special and killed it. That was their goal and they succeeded.

I believe DL is about to do likewise as they are moving the event to DCA next year.

It's a shame. I've had a lot of MAGICal time at WDW, but my Grad Night (wearing a tux with a RED bowtie!) is still one of the tops.

Yeah, I just noticed that about the west coast. I knew it had grown into a bigger experience of multiple days and more out of town nights, especially in the 90's. (It actually use to me off when the opening of PI was delayed for the pre-show of Grad Night. I wanted my canteen filled at the Adventurers Club.) I think it became more about filling hotel room nights well after I was there in 1984. It was simply an all night party that was pretty much Florida and S Georgia schools when I was there. Collared shirt, tie and dress pants were the dress code. Parks were also usually deader during that time. It was 11:00 PM until 6:00AM when I went. Very different in later years.

Grad Night was in the top three events of my senior year. At least no one in my HS got kicked out of the park. Although I did see some group toss a character into the moat. I think that school got banned.

 

[WDW1974]

Wow! You are a very young person.

I can never tell whether you are sarcastic or not, but either way ... that deserves a LIKE!

 

[WDW1974]

Yeah, I just noticed that about the west coast. I knew it had grown into a bigger experience of multiple days and more out of town nights, especially in the 90's. (It actually use to me off when the opening of PI was delayed for the pre-show of Grad Night. I wanted my canteen filled at the Adventurers Club.) I think it became more about filling hotel room nights well after I was there in 1984. It was simply an all night party that was pretty much Florida and S Georgia schools when I was there. Collared shirt, tie and dress pants were the dress code. Parks were also usually deader during that time. It was 11:00 PM until 6:00AM when I went. Very different in later years.

Grad Night was in the top three events of my senior year. At least no one in my HS got kicked out of the park. Although I did see some group toss a character into the moat. I think that school got banned.

If it was 1984, I am almost positive it was Coral Springs High School (down here in SoFl) and thet got a loooong ban ... either five or seven years from returning.

 

[Rasvar]

If it was 1984, I am almost positive it was Coral Springs High School (down here in SoFl) and thet got a loooong ban ... either five or seven years from returning.

You know what. That name is familiar. It probably was them.

 

[scpergj]

Yeah, I just noticed that about the west coast. I knew it had grown into a bigger experience of multiple days and more out of town nights, especially in the 90's. (It actually use to me off when the opening of PI was delayed for the pre-show of Grad Night. I wanted my canteen filled at the Adventurers Club.) I think it became more about filling hotel room nights well after I was there in 1984. It was simply an all night party that was pretty much Florida and S Georgia schools when I was there. Collared shirt, tie and dress pants were the dress code. Parks were also usually deader during that time. It was 11:00 PM until 6:00AM when I went. Very different in later years.

Grad Night was in the top three events of my senior year. At least no one in my HS got kicked out of the park. Although I did see some group toss a character into the moat. I think that school got banned.

Let's see...'84, character in the water....that would most likely been Middleburg High. I went to the rival school up the road - class of '86. While all of the other schools in our county did go, Middleburg was banned for a number of years. I know - I had friends there, and that is the reason they were told they could not go the year I did!

 

[IWant2GoNow]

I've been desperately racking my brain trying to come up with a thought-provoking question that has not yet been discussed on all of these rumors sprouting up & I just can't seem to find one.

'74, I know you will update us on anything new as you can but do you feel as though old rides/effects being fixed/refurbed will be part of this change? Or do you feel like they will just focus on the new things & leave it at that? I'd love to hear that both will be addressed but I'm thinking maybe the latter will take precedent.

Also, do you feel the next D23 will be too soon for any major announcements? Or will they likely announce beforehand & present concepts at D23 to get people hyped for the convention?

Thanks again for making me feel like the light may squeak out from behind the WDW clouds once more.

 

[Taylor]

74 do you think new projects are in the works because TDO sees possible faults or is it new management could come any time and the suits want to "better there resumes"

 

[tirian]

74 do you think new projects are in the works because TDO sees possible faults or is it new management could come any time and the suits want to "better there resumes"

Although I'm not '74 and don't have the full knowledge of this like he does, I can answer this question. It's a combination of both factors. Some of the current execs are retiring no matter what, but many of them are frustrated that their long-term plan of sitting on pixie dust and watching stupid tourists show up anyway has failed. It was inevitable: Universal has been adding substantial attractions while Disney simply raised prices. Tourists are smarter than they were ten years ago, and with online research many are choosing to cut a few days out of their WDW visits for a trip to Universal or Sea World. Guest survey responses are getting lower, with many of them claiming WWOHP as their favorite attraction. Theme park attendance has grown at every Disney park worldwide except Florida and Hong Kong. Plus, even though Universal will never reach the attendance levels of WDW, Uni is pulling in percentage gains while WDW dropped. Those numbers cannot be denied. Considering that WWOHP was just the beginning of Uni's Orlando expansion plan, WDW finally conceded that the FLE won't combat Potter or Transformers. FLE is a beautiful bandaid to fix the MK's current crowding issues and doesn't add much true capacity other than dining.

Remember, we're discussing people in those TDO offices; the successful turnarounds at Uni and DCA have damaged TDO's pride. Nothing is currently greenlit to help Florida any time soon. Avatar is a long-term pipe dream at DAK; and the FLE, while lovely, merely addresses existing concerns. NexGen has already raised significant issues in its testing phases. Meanwhile, Uni has WWOHP, a Potter expansion, Transformers, and multiple updates on the way—and DCA has Carsland and significant performance gains.

Good thing Florida has that enormous plastic hat in DHA to add MAGIC. Uni has the most cutting-edge ride in America.

Remember all those hints I dropped about Staggs' visit and the closed-door meeting at DAK? Corporate and TDO have finally gotten serious about improving WDW.

 

[TalkingHead]

NexGen has already raised significant issues in its testing phases.

Just curious if you can say what issues the NexGen testing has raised?

 

[tirian]

Just curious if you can say what issues the NexGen testing has raised?

I must remain vague. It's all related to Ops. Much of the attractions and Ops teams already dislike FastPass, and NexGen has only added to the insanity.