Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[John]

Consumer Product reviews are a good analogy because most people use them and provide a clean abstract. The idea is that the reviewers are essentially anonymous to you.. you do not have any association with the reviewer or predispositions about them.. and you *scan* several reviews to get an idea of the real conclusions rather than just read one source. Even in the era of traditional magazine reviewers, CNet, Consumer Reports, etc.. people still see value and put weight in these volumes of anonymous, even unqualified, reviews.

A casual researcher is not going to know where to go first.. so they will do some searching, do some scanning, and find a source that speaks in terms that they can relate to. Lets be honest.. a site like WDWMagic is rather intimidating to a casual Disney person, and extracting the impact even from the front page news could be daunting for a casual reader.



Why would there be? It's a corporate outreach blog - not a community or host of user submitted content. The hate on Disney Parks Blog is misguided. It's a platform to communicate the corporate PR or a message to speak to it's customers. Look at other company blogs.. google for instance - http://googleblog.blogspot.com/ - you won't find it to be about reviews, user submissions, 3rd party opinions, etc. What the Disney Parks has done has made it interesting to the mass audience by throwing out the bones the Disney fanbase always .. upcoming attraction info, backstage views, company-access only stuff, etc. It's a one-way street... I don't understand how anyone would expect it to be anything but that.



No one is going to make their entire trip decision based on reading one post on some site.. but they can INFLUENCE when, what they do, etc. Reviews of FLE or Carsland may not make someone snap decide to head to WDW/DLR.. but they may help push them over the line.. or possibly even alter existing plans.

It's all about a chorus of voices to gain reach and build 'common opinion'. You don't need the world's #1 columnist on your side, if you have 99% of all the other columnist on your side

And honestly, if you have any concern over your message getting out to these casual visitors - you, not Disney - are going about it all wrong. No mommy in NJ is going to look at a 1000 post thread on Laughing Place, or even a thread like this on WDWMagic. Your tact is aimed at swaying the hardcore follower audience - ironically, the audience that is likely to spend money at Disney regardless of being happy or not with Disney. While this audience may be the most energetic - its also smaller and not going to hit Disney fast and hard like large reach influencers on the casual audience may be (bad press at the national level... travel influencers like airline costs, etc).

You methods may work for the long term tone towards the company in the community - but they don't work for making a commercial impact in the near term. Posting behind a faceless name with no credentials and no portfolio that is easily surmised does not sway the open public. Going back to Save Disney for instance, it takes a face, a message, and substance to get people to rally behind. Roy had his past and Disney name to help be that beacon to rally behind. It took that figurehead that people could identify and buy into. You'll never have that with an anonymous discussion forum post. You are dooming yourself to a perennial community curmudgeon rather than a force to shake the company up. Respected in the microcosm - but ineffective in the larger war effort.



That's your prerogative, and without any real insight into their investment vs other methods, I really don't have footing to make my own opinion on their effectiveness or what metrics they use. Nor do I really care how internal employees are able to justify themselves or not to their superiors. I have no interest in internal politics in a company that I never will have to work directly with.

But I have to imagine that pumping the internet with FLE news for 12 months solid with teasers and tours certainly has a lot more staying power and reach then paying for expensive TV productions to run teasers on national TV, or produce travel shows, or buy into morning coach shows for just a week or two.. and then have to find a way to sustain that surge over long periods of time.

I would imagine The Disney Parks Blog being one of the most successful initiatives they've had in marketing in a very long time.

74, He makes an excellent argument and I cant think that there is much to argue in his point. Although I will say that there is the perverbial...."two ways to skin a cat" and I am certian you feel that you know what is best for you.....thing is Disney knows what is good for them. We (I) can argue the fact that there has been a decline in degrees but IN THE SHORT TERM Disney has done very well. We will see how it will play out from here. Most things in life is cyclical.....only time will tell where we are headed.

 

[menamechris]

TWDC should commit to have a massive revitalization project for the entire resort that will be completed by the 50th anniversary. Start Oct. 1 with the smaller steps, but begin plans for major upgrades to all parks and spread the costs over the next 9 fiscal years.

Seems to be plenty of time to make this happen if Disney begins moving asap.

The irony is that Disneyland will be completely upgraded and GORGEOUS for WDW's 50th. Maybe there is some confusion at the top?

 

[Clever Name]

Consumer Product reviews are a good analogy because most people use them and provide a clean abstract. The idea is that the reviewers are essentially anonymous to you.. you do not have any association with the reviewer or predispositions about them.. and you *scan* several reviews to get an idea of the real conclusions rather than just read one source. Even in the era of traditional magazine reviewers, CNet, Consumer Reports, etc.. people still see value and put weight in these volumes of anonymous, even unqualified, reviews.

A casual researcher is not going to know where to go first.. so they will do some searching, do some scanning, and find a source that speaks in terms that they can relate to. Lets be honest.. a site like WDWMagic is rather intimidating to a casual Disney person, and extracting the impact even from the front page news could be daunting for a casual reader.

The problem is that the information provided on social media is different than the information provided to the "real" world. As an example, you can find Kelly Blue Book car prices via social media, but they are not the same prices that a dealer gets in his/her version of the Kelly Blue Book. As a result, people using social media for their information are misinformed. Fortunately, most people are aware that social media sources are unreliable. However, there are a significant numbers of people that fall victim to social media misinformation.

Wise consumers only use social media sources for entertainment, not information.

 

[Rasvar]

It really comes down to competition. SoCal is a much more competitive market. It is also a more local market. You have only around 6M less people in the metro area than in the whole state of Florida. Until Disney feels threatened by competition in Florida *Cough* Harry Potter *Cough* there is little need to change. I'm getting indications that Universal is finally making some inroads. For the first time in a long time, TDO has actually sent some folks on research trips to theme parks around the country and in Europe. Inertia in a company the size of Disney is huge and it takes a while to turn the ship around. You can turn a jet ski around on a dime but it may take nautical miles to turn and aircraft carrier. WDW is the aircraft carrier. There will still be a few more years lag before things get turned around, if they are done right. Any attempt at a quick fix will result in something like Journey into Your Imagination or, even worse, Superstar Limo! Something like Nextgen is probably going to be seen as a stopgap and a turn instead of a destination now. The reaction to Cars Land has really woken up some folks at TDO. WDW's 50th may actually be a good date to focus on. Look at how long it took to rebuild Disneyland from its horrific state. I think it will take that long to get WDW recovered.

 

[Scuttle]

Only by the press machine.

Tomorrowland 74-75 produced more onstage area that was previously not available to guests (true expansion) and more attractions.

I only wish we had some pictures of the Tomorrowland construction via the skyway!

 

[marni1971]

I only wish we had some pictures of the Tomorrowland construction via the skyway!

A few do exist.

 

[Scuttle]

A few do exist.

I've only seen 2. Haha

 

[NoChesterHester]

It really comes down to competition. SoCal is a much more competitive market. It is also a more local market. You have only around 6M less people in the metro area than in the whole state of Florida. Until Disney feels threatened by competition in Florida *Cough* Harry Potter *Cough* there is little need to change. I'm getting indications that Universal is finally making some inroads. For the first time in a long time, TDO has actually sent some folks on research trips to theme parks around the country and in Europe. Inertia in a company the size of Disney is huge and it takes a while to turn the ship around. You can turn a jet ski around on a dime but it may take nautical miles to turn and aircraft carrier. WDW is the aircraft carrier. There will still be a few more years lag before things get turned around, if they are done right. Any attempt at a quick fix will result in something like Journey into Your Imagination or, even worse, Superstar Limo! Something like Nextgen is probably going to be seen as a stopgap and a turn instead of a destination now. The reaction to Cars Land has really woken up some folks at TDO. WDW's 50th may actually be a good date to focus on. Look at how long it took to rebuild Disneyland from its horrific state. I think it will take that long to get WDW recovered.

A more competitive market? How so? If Orlando is the #1 tourist destination in the country and there are three major competitors in the area how is it less competitive. There are more people visiting the Orlando parks any day of the year than there are in Anaheim.

I agree with the rest.

 

[Californian Elitist]

A more competitive market? How so? If Orlando is the #1 tourist destination in the country and there are three major competitors in the area how is it less competitive. There are more people visiting the Orlando parks any day of the year than there are in Anaheim.

I agree with the rest.

I think the poster was talking about California in general, not just Anaheim. California has theme parks too, the only difference being they're spread out, while the big ones in Florida are in one place.

It is pretty competitive between the parks out here in California, though. Disney even has Disneyland billboards all around the Universal Studios area. Every time you look up there's some sort of deal the theme parks are offering. People come to California to see a lot of things, theme parks included. I'm guessing with them being spread out, the competition may be a little greater because one has to figure out how far they want to drive, if they want to drive at all. That's not the case in Florida, since they're all in Orlando.

 

[Rasvar]

A more competitive market? How so? If Orlando is the #1 tourist destination in the country and there are three major competitors in the area how is it less competitive. There are more people visiting the Orlando parks any day of the year than there are in Anaheim.

I agree with the rest.

Disney World's market is much more global. It's visitor base is far more tourist vs local or even from Florida. At DL, the local SoCal market is the driving visitor market. You have a much much higher percentage of "locals" at Disneyland than you do at WDW. This means that the market they are dealing with is more prone to spur of the moment trips. This is why they have the Holiday overlays and WDW doesn't. Disneyland also has a higher percentage of AP's in their daily attendance. In Orlando, WDW is the big dog. People go to Orlando to go to Disney World. Vacationers around the world really don't go to Orlando to experience the city. In SoCal, you have the opposite. People come to visit all of the options in the metro area of which DL is just a small part of it. It's also why the AP discounts at Disneyland are much more extensive than at WDW. That is what I mean by more competitive. There is much more that DL has to be better than to get the visitors than WDW does. WDW is a much more global market where DL is much more local.

I think Grad Night is the perfect example of this. WDW no longer needs it. They got rid of it. It was heavily regional. Disneyland still has it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Disney World's market is much more global. It's visitor base is far more tourist vs local or even from Florida. At DL, the local SoCal market is the driving visitor market. You have a much much higher percentage of "locals" at Disneyland than you do at WDW. This means that the market they are dealing with is more prone to spur of the moment trips. This is why they have the Holiday overlays and WDW doesn't. Disneyland also has a higher percentage of AP's in their daily attendance. In Orlando, WDW is the big dog. People go to Orlando to go to Disney World. Vacationers around the world really don't go to Orlando to experience the city. In SoCal, you have the opposite. People come to visit all of the options in the metro area of which DL is just a small part of it. It's also why the AP discounts at Disneyland are much more extensive than at WDW. That is what I mean by more competitive. There is much more that DL has to be better than to get the visitors than WDW does. WDW is a much more global market where DL is much more local.

So true. One of the reasons why DCA failed...locals weren't visiting the parks. People say DHS is in bad shape, but attendance is still overall good because of the amount of worldwide visitors, I'm guessing. Where in California, the main clientele, the locals, weren't thinking twice about stepping foot in DCA.

 

[ChrisFL]

So true. One of the reasons why DCA failed...locals weren't visiting the parks. People say DHS is in bad shape, but attendance is still overall good because of the amount of worldwide visitors, I'm guessing. Where in California, the main clientele, the locals, weren't thinking twice about stepping foot in DCA.

That was the big joke, why would locals go to DCA to see replicas of buildings they live near?

I still wonder how the numbers for the guests of DHS and AK are inflated because of the multi-day tickets...people will visit even if its only for 2-3 hours and leave.

I wonder if Disney has a way to calculate single-day single park tickets sold and used at which parks.

 

[Californian Elitist]

That was the big joke, why would locals go to DCA to see replicas of buildings they live near?

I still wonder how the numbers for the guests of DHS and AK are inflated because of the multi-day tickets...people will visit even if its only for 2-3 hours and leave.

I wonder if Disney has a way to calculate single-day single park tickets sold and used at which parks.

Yep, and the lack of love that went into the park. The concept of the park was redundant. A park in California...about California. The concept is a lot better now but when it first opened it was just weird. I didn't like it all when it first opened, besides a couple of attractions I enjoyed, like Soarin' Over California and Mullholland Madness. That's about it.

I heard Disney counts the number of people in the parks by counting which park you went through first. So if you visited DAK first, then went to MK, DAK would get the count. I don't know if this is true or not.

 

[unkadug]

Yep, and the lack of love that went into the park. The concept of the park was redundant. A park in California...about California. The concept is a lot better now but when it first opened it was just weird. I didn't like it all when it first opened, besides a couple of attractions I enjoyed, like Soarin' Over California and Mullholland Madness. That's about it.

I heard Disney counts the number of people in the parks by counting which park you went through first. So if you visited DAK first, then went to MK, DAK would get the count. I don't know if this is true or not.

I can pretty much assure you that somebody is doing an Excel spreadsheet showing that and other figures about all ticket use.

 

[Rasvar]

That was the big joke, why would locals go to DCA to see replicas of buildings they live near?

I still wonder how the numbers for the guests of DHS and AK are inflated because of the multi-day tickets...people will visit even if its only for 2-3 hours and leave.

I wonder if Disney has a way to calculate single-day single park tickets sold and used at which parks.

You really underestimate the time. Yeah, people who visit a lot don't go but when the average guest only goes once every five years, they spend a lot more time than 2-3 hours. (Heck a lot of them spend an hour waiting in line for Toy Story Mania alone) Like it or not, the parks gets good reviews from most of the guests. This is why I make such a point about the different markets. There is a lot to see in AK and DHS for the occasional guest who is the bread and butter of WDW. I am sure most single day tickets are used at Epcot or MK. Those rare times that someone actually buys a single day ticket that is not part of a discounted package. I'm sure the percentage of single day tickets purchased at WDW is a very low number, especially compared to Universal and Sea World.

 

[Rasvar]

I can pretty much assure you that somebody is doing an Excel spreadsheet showing that and other figures about all ticket use.

They absolutely know the park hopping data. They also can estimate time spent in each park. I have always thought that they are maximized on the average vacation stay. There is still more to do in all the parks combined for an average vacation than can be done. So having AK or DHS as a 1/2 to 2/3 day park is not really a major concern for them. I do feel sorry if someone was foolish enough to purchase full price single day ticket for these parks.

 

[unkadug]

Every ticket has a unique ID number. They know if that ticket was purchased as an individual day ticket, a multiday ticket or part of a package. They know what park it was used in and when.

They aren't tracking "YOU" per se, but they are tracking usage statistics.

 

[Rasvar]

One other thing people forget: ESPN Wide World of Sports. Disney has turned that thing into a money monster. It is probably the main reason why Grad Nights are gone. Disney can rake in more money hosting sporting events, teams and things like Run Disney than a costly to operate night event in the parks. The quiet expansion of WWOS has been quite remarkable. I keep waiting for them to add an aquatic complex.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I'm sure the percentage of single day tickets purchased at WDW is a very low number, especially compared to Universal and Sea World.

You're sure, but you're very wrong. I deal with tickets on a daily basis and I can tell you of the thousands I see each day a disproportionate majority are 1-day 1-park tickets.

 

[WDW1974]

I would appreciate it if everyone would stay on topic, and stop bringing up personal conflicts. Also please stop making disparaging remarks while mentioning people by their "real" names. Or occupations. And please leave other websites out of this one. Thank you.

I do apologize if you feel I shouldn't have brought up a major thread I was involed in on another website. I was just answering a question, and I wasn't in anyway disparaging the site. ... And I realize you may have not been speaking of me at all, I just have a huge ego and often assume this, so sorry if that wasn't the case!

The only question I really have ... and, perhaps, Steve is better answering but it looks like Disney's social media conultants names were edited out of a post (I think ... again, I can't keep up with everything here). I would wonder why, if so. These people proudly proclaim and advertise (and try and drum up more business) based upon the fact they get paid VERY large sums to tell Disney how to deal with social media (including sites like this). If they are not hiding this, but placing it out for the entire world to see (and to enrich them by getting other corps. to say "well, they're good enough for Disney, so they'd be great for us!") on web pages and their public Twitter and Facebook accounts I don't see why they can't simply be mentioned.

Now, I may be totally off on this, but it just popped into my head in skimming the thread since I was last able to.