DHS Makeover - What we know so far.....

[CaptainAmerica]

DHS is pretty much landlocked by unsuitable land...

Is that a fact? I was under the impression that the land surrounding DHS was unbuildable because it has been designated as such, not because there's something inherently wrong with the land itself. My understanding was that the land could be built if other land on property currently slated for expansion was re-designated as conservation space.

 

[WDW95]

But a land that is not suitable for anything would definitely not be suitable for the point loads of a garage. DHS is pretty much landlocked by unsuitable land so it makes sense to stay within the current foot print as much as possible. I am not saying they are definitely building a garage, but it is not an outrageous idea.

The rumor is that the garage would be built on the current parking lot. What I am saying is that the land the parking lot is sitting on now is engineered to hold only a parking lot. It is not engineered to hold a garage. If a garage is added here, significant expense would still have to be undertaken to prepare the land for the garage.

 

[WDW95]

Is that a fact? I was under the impression that the land surrounding DHS was unbuildable because it has been designated as such, not because there's something inherently wrong with the land itself. My understanding was that the land could be built if other land on property currently slated for expansion was re-designated as conservation space.

They can even use off property land for conservation like they did for DAK. Im pretty sure all of WDW was unsuitable at one point. It would be interesting to see how the distribution of suitable and unsuitable land has changed over the years.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They can even use off property land for conservation like they did for DAK.

Yep, and they recently purchased a bunch for just this purpose (it would seem).

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-mira-lago-20141108-story.html

 

[danlb_2000]

Is that a fact? I was under the impression that the land surrounding DHS was unbuildable because it has been designated as such, not because there's something inherently wrong with the land itself. My understanding was that the land could be built if other land on property currently slated for expansion was re-designated as conservation space.

Most of the unsuitable land is designated as conservation. Since it's already hard to build on, it makes sense to use it as conservation land. From the RCID master plan:

"Unsuitable – Land in the unsuitable category has the most restrictive development constraints. It has been applied to wetlands below the 100-year flood elevation and to all wetland and uplands Conservation Areas. Most of the acreage is in the Reedy Creek Swamp. Land with this designation is considered unavailable for development. The 9,093 acres with this designation represent 64.2 percent of the undeveloped land area."

The other thing to remember is that they have a limited amount of existing wetlands that they can impact. They submitted a permit last year to increase this amount, but it was never approved. Of course there are always ways around these things, but they involve extra money and more hoops to jump through, so they are always going to favor the easier path when possible.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The other thing to remember is that they have a limited amount of existing wetlands that they can impact. They submitted a permit last year to increase this amount, but it was never approved. Of course there are always ways around these things, but they involve extra money and more hoops to jump through, so they are always going to favor the easier path when possible.

Are you suggesting they purchased the Mira Lago property without doing their due diligence and now they're stuck with wetlands credits they can't use?

 

[danlb_2000]

Yep, and they recently purchased a bunch for just this purpose (it would seem).

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-mira-lago-20141108-story.html

They filed a permit with the South Florida Water Management District for this last year and it was never approved. SFWMD asked for more information, Disney eventually asked for an extension, but the extension expired and they never provided the information.

 

[danlb_2000]

The rumor is that the garage would be built on the current parking lot. What I am saying is that the land the parking lot is sitting on now is engineered to hold only a parking lot. It is not engineered to hold a garage. If a garage is added here, significant expense would still have to be undertaken to prepare the land for the garage.

There would also be significant expense in building a parking lot on unsuitable land. We just don't know for sure how big the difference would be.

 

[Brad Bishop]

You also get the double punch of WDW expanding so massively in the 90s and the USA becoming cheaper and cheaper for tourists to visit, that for those in search of a Disney fix the price difference between Paris and Orlando became narrower, which didn't help DLP's quest to get guests who wanted to spend a week or more at Disney parks. Many people said 'for not much more, we could go to Florida', while nobody, when offered the choice said 'I'd much rather go to DLP than WDW!'.

I used to work for a company in the UK and asked them about Disneyland Paris. Many thought it was too expensive and, if you're going to do Disney and spend all of that money, then you may as well do it right and head to Florida where everything is.

They saw a lot more value in traveling to Florida for 4 parks over, what sounds like, 1.5 parks in Paris. Also, USF/IOA were factors in their decision with them being just down the road.

I read up on the problems of Disneyland Paris a year or two back and, outside of them kind of competing with Florida, there were a few things that stuck out:
- employees were generally rude and unhelpful
- management has it's own share of problems.
- They made everything really ornate when they built the place but, with that ornateness, comes maintenance which they couldn't afford and then it just got worse from there.

I remember reading one of the comments on DLP, from a British person, and they basically wanted to go to Florida, not only for all of the other reasons above, but also because the people in Florida treated you like a guest instead of a pest.

I've never been to DLP so I don't have any first-hand experience.

 

[Next Big Thing]

The park will have lost 8 attractions. Maybe more.

And it's getting 4. 2 of those are for kiddies.

Add Rat and the Door Coaster and another SW D+ and they'd be getting there.

It doesn't quite add up yet.

I think 4 RIDES are the key thing though. The things we're losing are things like LMA, Sparrow, Idol (which got replaced), OMD, Animation (replaced with Launch Bay), BLT (replaced by TS Land), and an incredibly old/outdated Voyage of the LM.

Sure, I hate losing One Man's Dream and Animation, but this park has always been short on RIDES. We only lose 1 of those in all the closures and we are getting 4. I'll be damned if there aren't other side attractions within these lands too. Lands that are 14 and 11 acres need content beyond just rides.

 

[WDW95]

Also, what are the odds that Star Tours even will remain in the new Star Wars Land? The ride where you get to drive the Millenium Falcon sounds similar to Star Tours. Both would seem kind of redundant. We know Disneyland's will not be incorporating Star Tours. There is no reason Star Wars Land needs to be located near Star Tours.

It may make more sense to place it in the back of the park, where Catastrophe Canyon is now. It will help to provide a draw to the back of the park and distribute crowds more evenly. Toy Story Land could provide access to this land.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I'm thinking this is the timeline:
Spring 2016 - Toy Story Land breaks ground
Summer/Fall 2017 - Star Wars Land breaks ground
Winter 2017 - Toy Story Land opens
Summer 2019 - Star Wars Land opens

I've heard construction for TS Land starts at the beginning of the new fiscal year in October... have you heard anything similar to that @marni1971?

 

[Next Big Thing]

Except I don't think they care. After all, it's not like they did a whole lot for DHS' 25th anniversary....

There was nothing to celebrate. The park was in the er...

 

[Next Big Thing]

If they start soon, TSL is feasible by late 2017. I would put Star Wars in 2020.

And TS4 comes out in 2017 too so it would be good timing.

 

[marni1971]

I've heard construction for TS Land starts at the beginning of the new fiscal year in October... have you heard anything similar to that @marni1971?

It'd make sense. Backlots been closed a year. But not heard anything so far to suggest it.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I am a little skeptical that they would build two new coasters.

They could easily build Monstropolis with the coaster, maybe move the Laugh Floor and a dark ride (possibly a plussed version of DCA's?)... everything already has R&D done, all they would need to do is figure out a layout for the land and build.

 

[wdwfan757]

Any word on One Man's Dream being relocated somewhere? It's the one loss that I think actually stings a bit. Perhaps it could reside in the odyssey building over at EPCOT or become a permanent exhibit in innoventions?

 

[truecoat]

If the building in the lower corner of the photo is TSMM and I have it right, this is about where most of the land will be. Please note that it's not to scale, it's just to a scale developed by me in the last five minutes before I got bored.

 

[marni1971]

Right. But wrong!

LMA will be going. But the circled item is a new building, not the old visual effects stage.


View attachment 106233

(Perspectives a bit off but you get the idea)

 

[KrazyKat]

Just wondering, and maybe those in the know can verify, but could it be possible the huge $3B approved by the BOD was to build Star Wars Land in both WDW and DL with a little extra for TSPL? As a WDW annual visitor I'm hoping it was $3B just for DHS.