Which is worse: Pool hopping, using FPs outside the time window, ...

[The Mom]

We all have different opinions and interpretations of things, thats life:animwink: But, I feel, getting a toy with a meal is classing it as a childs meal.

The difference is that the portions are smaller than an adult meal, so you are paying less to get less, even if it includes a ten cent toy.


If McDonald's gave away Happy Meals to children under three, or sold a full sized combo for less to a child, and you lied about a child's age to get a free or reduced rate meal, it would then be the same as lying about your child's age at WDW.

In this case, the restaurant gets the same amount of money for a kid's size meal regardless of how old the purchaser may be. Some restaurants specifically prohibit adults from ordering a kid's meal, but McDonald's is not one of them.

In the case of WDW, they either do not get any money at all, or less money than they are owed, if people lie.

Whether or not everyone gets the same amount of WDW for the same price is another matter, but WDW would have to go back to the ticket books to make things equitable in that case. Which no one (AFAIK) wants.

But, it might also eliminate the need for the FP system. Two problems solved at once.

 

[MousDad]

Interesting topic - and interesting answers. Relativism 101.

I'll try to answer the OP's question - but I'm not sure if the OP is asking which is ethically worse, or which I find the most annoying personally. If I were to answer on moral/ethical grounds:

Anything that involves lying or stealing would be ranked highest. Since the child ticket issue involves both, I rank that the worst. You're lying about your child's age, and stealing directly from Disney.

I would put pool hopping and EMH wristbands tied for 2nd. Both involve dishonesty and deception instead of outright lying. Both are not stealing monetary value, per se, but rather getting more value than what entitled for, based on what you paid.

I would not consider FP window an ethical violation on any level, because it involves neither lying, dishonesty, or theft. Plus, Disney CMs will confirm that it is allowed. They, obviously, would not in the other 3 situations.

Now if I were to answer the OP's question based on which would annoy me the most, it would be the child ticket again, because I pay for my children's tickets honestly.

To this point, I've never used a resort pool or been to EMH, so those don't affect me personally.

I do use expired FP's, so obviously that doesn't annoy me. :lol:

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Interesting topic - and interesting answers. Relativism 101.

I'll try to answer the OP's question - but I'm not sure if the OP is asking which is ethically worse, or which I find the most annoying personally. If I were to answer on moral/ethical grounds:

Anything that involves lying or stealing would be ranked highest. Since the child ticket issue involves both, I rank that the worst. You're lying about your child's age, and stealing directly from Disney.

I would put pool hopping and EMH wristbands tied for 2nd. Both involve dishonesty and deception instead of outright lying. Both are not stealing monetary value, per se, but rather getting more value than what entitled for, based on what you paid.

I would not consider FP window an ethical violation on any level, because it involves neither lying, dishonesty, or theft. Plus, Disney CMs will confirm that it is allowed. They, obviously, would not in the other 3 situations.

Now if I were to answer the OP's question based on which would annoy me the most, it would be the child ticket again, because I pay for my children's tickets honestly.

To this point, I've never used a resort pool or been to EMH, so those don't affect me personally.

I do use expired FP's, so obviously that doesn't annoy me. :lol:

Come on the child ticket thing?? How does someone getting their kid in with a child ticket hurt you directly? Thats how I see what is worse...people using my pool (making it more crowded...less towels) after I paid to be at that resort, that effects me, people sneaking in on magic hours, when I paid to stay onsite(thus more) creates more crowds, that effects me.
Some guy getting his kid who is a year or two older than the child price getting that deal? Ah what do I care, Disney is not hurting for the cash, and has designed more ways than one to get that money from the guy(autograph books, pins, candy, over priced lunches).
I would not say it's stealing since the person is actually buying a ticket, and that person runs the risk that they will be denied said ticket.

 

[yankspy]

Come on the child ticket thing?? How does someone getting their kid in with a child ticket hurt you directly? Thats how I see what is worse...people using my pool (making it more crowded...less towels) after I paid to be at that resort, that effects me, people sneaking in on magic hours, when I paid to stay onsite(thus more) creates more crowds, that effects me.
Some guy getting his kid who is a year or two older than the child price getting that deal? Ah what do I care, Disney is not hurting for the cash, and has designed more ways than one to get that money from the guy(autograph books, pins, candy, over priced lunches).
I would not say it's stealing since the person is actually buying a ticket, and that person runs the risk that they will be denied said ticket.

I think that the point that others are trying to make is that you are teaching your child that it is okay to lie. That could potentially be harmful for all society when that child becomes an adult.

Funny side story: I was in line at Adventure Island in Tampa and there was a dad in front of me with two kids who was trying to get his daughter in at the kid price. He told the woman in the ticket booth that his daughter was 8 and his son quickly spoke up and said "No Dad, she is 9".:lol: It was hysterical because the boy (who was about 11) was so innocent about it. He had no idea what his Father was trying to do, and he was just correcting him.

 

[maggiegrace1]

Well..Maggie will be 3 on Monday....and when you ask her how old she will be she says 3..but when you ask her how old she will be when she gores to WDW..she says 2..:lookaroun

:lol:
She really does..because we were joking around and said that and she repeats it..though we will pay for her when we go to WDW..no big deal.

The thing is..she could basically get in for free still..probably till she is 4...but I can afford to pay for it and it is a rule so we will go by it.

I really do not think that it is reason for people to get so bothered by it though.

I feel that what someone else does is their buisness..and if they do things that are aginst the rules..then they have to deal with the consequences if there are any....

I am not going to worry about the fact that "those people are not staying at FW and are using the pool" or "that kid is not under 3 and they got him in for free"..it is none of my buisness really..:shrug:

I mean I know eventualy it will affect me..rising ticket prices and blah blah blah..but whatever..to each their own I say.

I do not let things like that get to me ..

 

[MousDad]

Come on the child ticket thing?? How does someone getting their kid in with a child ticket hurt you directly? Thats how I see what is worse...people using my pool (making it more crowded...less towels) after I paid to be at that resort, that effects me, people sneaking in on magic hours, when I paid to stay onsite(thus more) creates more crowds, that effects me.
Some guy getting his kid who is a year or two older than the child price getting that deal? Ah what do I care, Disney is not hurting for the cash, and has designed more ways than one to get that money from the guy(autograph books, pins, candy, over priced lunches).
I would not say it's stealing since the person is actually buying a ticket, and that person runs the risk that they will be denied said ticket.

I never said it hurt me directly. I'll repeat what I said for your benefit: I would find that the most annoying of the 4 choices, for me personally, assuming I was answering the OP's question on the second level. And I gave the reasons. Neither one of the 4 hurts me in any way.

Also, it's hard for me to mix the 2 approaches in my mind (ethical vs. personal aggravation) as you and others are doing. Alot of the "it doesn't matter" replies are strongly suggesting that something is wrong/unethical only if it doesn't affect me personally. That is going down a slippery slope, as is what yankspy said above.

 

[maggiegrace1]

I never said it hurt me directly. I'll repeat what I said for your benefit: I would find that the most annoying of the 4 choices, for me personally, assuming I was answering the OP's question on the second level. And I gave the reasons. Neither one of the 4 hurts me in any way.

Also, it's hard for me to mix the 2 approaches in my mind (ethical vs. personal aggravation) as you and others are doing. Alot of the "it doesn't matter" replies are strongly suggesting that something is wrong/unethical only if it doesn't affect me personally. That is going down a slippery slope, as is what yankspy said above.

Not saying you mean me specifically but..

I basically said "It does not matter to me" but that does not mean that I think it is not wrong or unethical because it does not appl to me...

I just mean that no matter what I think..people are still going to do what they want regardless and what is the point of me getting so annoyed and frustrated by what they are doing if I can not change it..no matter how I feel?:shrug:

KWIM?

 

[trooper1917]

pool hopping is actually a perk for DVC, so I don't get the problem there...:shrug:

Yes but DVCers are paying for that perk. I think pool hopping infringes on that resort's guests-who paid to be there. Swim in your own pool.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I must really not belong in this thread, because when I sit down at the pool I don't look around and wonder, "Who is here who doesn't belong?" :lol:

Back in the day, going to the pool at the Poly was the thing to do, and not just for Polynesian guests. Even cast members would hang there on their day off. Obviously, Disney has grown incredibly with the opening of all the other parks, including water parks, and everyone can't do that or it would be too crowded and nobody would have fun.

Aside from Disney, some of my happy vacation memories from childhood are of getting in the hotel swimming pool after a long day of traveling and meeting kids who were from other places, just like I was, and playing Marco Polo and other pool games until my parents deemed it was time to get out and go to the room. I don't get the attitude that having other people in the pool ruins detracts from the experience. :shrug: What is this bunker mentality that the amenities are just for me and the fewer other people are around, the happier I am? That's antisocial! :lol:

Here's another thing that some people have maybe never experienced. Say I am from out of town and am staying at the Contemporary and I have friends who live in the Orlando area that I want to see and I invite them to come over to see me at the hotel. Nothing unusual or wrong with that, right? Well, at my age my friends have children, and maybe they don't have a babysitter available. What's the harm with telling them to bring the kids and let them swim with my kids in the pool? Again, assuming the pool isn't overcrowded to the point where other resort guests can't get a chair or fit in the pool, what's the harm with that? Who among us would object?

Pool hopping is fine with me as long as there is plenty of room in the pool area for everyone using to have a chair and towel. If there isn't room, then limit the access to paid guests only - fine.

 

[disneydiva72]

I have never done it but....Im not getting why anyone cares if someone says there kids is 9 instead of 11 to get a cheaper price (or whatever the age difference is to get the lower price) ....a body is a body. Weather you are standing on line at big Thunder next to a 9 year old who paid 50.00 or a 11 year old that paid 78.00 who cares? He is still in a seat, he is still in the park.


Not getting it, why should I care that his parents saved 20 bucks? :shrug:

I have an 8 year old that hardly goes on any rides, he hates rides but he loves the atmosphere, I would love to pay less for him since he doesn't actually go on anything.

when I sit down at the pool I don't look around and wonder, "Who is here who doesn't belong?"

Im sooo with you on that one.

 

[pax_65]

Here's what I teach my kids... ask yourself "If everyone did it, would it still be ok?"

There are so many little abuses we allow because we think nobody is getting hurt. But if everyone abused the system, the damage would be much worse. This is true with all the things we're talking about.

A real-life example to illustrate my point. We had friends who used to like to drive to the Contemporary Resort, park, and walk to MK. It was very convenient compared to TTC! But it always bothered me for the same reason - what would happen if everyone did this?

Disney slammed this practice by placing security at the Contemporary, Poly, GF and requiring resort IDs (or a dining PS) and limiting the amount of time you can park in the lot if you're not a resort guest.

Now it's such a hassle to get into these lots that it's not even worth driving to the resort to visit! Now if I want to visit these resorts I do the opposite - take a bus to the MK and ride the monorail to the resort. I miss the old days, but I certainly understand why Disney made those changes - because of people like my friend who abused the system.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I'll add one other thing as I'm leaving.

What does anybody here care if a 3 year old gets into a Disney park without buying a ticket? Are you stockholders who think your stock value will suffer if that $50 doesn't get collected? :lol:

Are you worried there will be an influx of undocumented 3 year olds, siphoning off services properly earmarked for ticket holding 3 year olds, or the wait time for Cinderella's carousel will go from 3 minutes to 8 minutes? I know - you are hoping that if they have to actually pay for a ticket, they won't come and rent that stroller that comes along with their presence in the park and you might be able to walk down Main Street after a parade without getting the skin taken off your achilles tendon by an inattentive stroller pusher! It isn't going to happen! Wear ankle protection!

This thread is silly. All right, now. I'm done. :wave:

 

[MousDad]

Not saying you mean me specifically but..

I basically said "It does not matter to me" but that does not mean that I think it is not wrong or unethical because it does not appl to me...

I just mean that no matter what I think..people are still going to do what they want regardless and what is the point of me getting so annoyed and frustrated by what they are doing if I can not change it..no matter how I feel?:shrug:

KWIM?

Wasn't directed at you. I understand what you're saying completely. (Your 2nd paragraph) is precisely why I made it a point to answer the question 2 different ways.

 

[disneydiva72]

I'll add one other thing as I'm leaving.

What does anybody here care if a 3 year old gets into a Disney park without buying a ticket? Are you stockholders who think your stock value will suffer if that $50 doesn't get collected? :lol:

Are you worried there will be an influx of undocumented 3 year olds, siphoning off services properly earmarked for ticket holding 3 year olds, or the wait time for Cinderella's carousel will go from 3 minutes to 8 minutes? I know - you are hoping that if they have to actually pay for a ticket, they won't come and rent that stroller that comes along with their presence in the park and you might be able to walk down Main Street after a parade without getting the skin taken off your achilles tendon by an inattentive stroller pusher! It isn't going to happen! Wear ankle protection!

This thread is silly. All right, now. I'm done. :wave:

:sohappy:

Exactly, Weather that kid is 3 or 4, they will still BE there.

 

[MousDad]

What does anybody here care if a 3 year old gets into a Disney park without buying a ticket? Are you stockholders who think your stock value will suffer if that $50 doesn't get collected? :lol:

I'll repeat what I said earlier: Is it lying and stealing? Yes. Does it bother me personally? Only in the sense that it would irk me that someone else's 3 year old gets in for free and mine doesn't. Other than that, I probably wouldn't give it a second thought.

Oh, and a 4-7 day child ticket costs alot more than $50.

 

[yankspy]

I have never done it but....Im not getting why anyone cares if someone says there kids is 9 instead of 11 to get a cheaper price (or whatever the age difference is to get the lower price) ....a body is a body. Weather you are standing on line at big Thunder next to a 9 year old who paid 50.00 or a 11 year old that paid 78.00 who cares? He is still in a seat, he is still in the park.


Not getting it, why should I care that his parents saved 20 bucks? :shrug:

I have an 8 year old that hardly goes on any rides, he hates rides but he loves the atmosphere, I would love to pay less for him since he doesn't actually go on anything.




Im sooo with you on that one.

I'll add one other thing as I'm leaving.

What does anybody here care if a 3 year old gets into a Disney park without buying a ticket? Are you stockholders who think your stock value will suffer if that $50 doesn't get collected? :lol:

Are you worried there will be an influx of undocumented 3 year olds, siphoning off services properly earmarked for ticket holding 3 year olds, or the wait time for Cinderella's carousel will go from 3 minutes to 8 minutes? I know - you are hoping that if they have to actually pay for a ticket, they won't come and rent that stroller that comes along with their presence in the park and you might be able to walk down Main Street after a parade without getting the skin taken off your achilles tendon by an inattentive stroller pusher! It isn't going to happen! Wear ankle protection!

This thread is silly. All right, now. I'm done. :wave:

Again, I do not think that it is the "getting in for cheaper" that bothers a lot of people. I think that the rub is that a person who is doing this could be setting a bad example for the child, which could potentially be harmful to all of society later on. I am not trying to fight with either of you I am simply explaining what I believe to be the problem that some people are having with this idea. I understand that a three year old may not "get it" but if you do it with an eight or nine year old then they are seeing that it may be okay to lie because the parents are doing it. I have to say that in general, I am oblivious to FP abusers, strollers, pool hoppers, refilable mug abusers, etc. when I am at WDW because I am on vacation and I simply am not looking for what others are doing. In the case of pool hopping at Stormalong Bay, it seems that hopping caused a big problem there as far as crowding and that is why they are strict with who can use the pool. :wave:

 

[maggiegrace1]

Here's what I teach my kids... ask yourself "If everyone did it, would it still be ok?"

There are so many little abuses we allow because we think nobody is getting hurt. But if everyone abused the system, the damage would be much worse. This is true with all the things we're talking about.

A real-life example to illustrate my point. We had friends who used to like to drive to the Contemporary Resort, park, and walk to MK. It was very convenient compared to TTC! But it always bothered me for the same reason - what would happen if everyone did this?

Disney slammed this practice by placing security at the Contemporary, Poly, GF and requiring resort IDs (or a dining PS) and limiting the amount of time you can park in the lot if you're not a resort guest.

Now it's such a hassle to get into these lots that it's not even worth driving to the resort to visit! Now if I want to visit these resorts I do the opposite - take a bus to the MK and ride the monorail to the resort. I miss the old days, but I certainly understand why Disney made those changes - because of people like my friend who abused the system.

I always stay on Disney Property...usually at POP or the campgrounds....if I stay at the campgrounds I take the boat to the MK..but I will tell you ..that as far as I can remember if I am staying at POP..I will park at the Polynesian and I will take the monarail to the MK and stay there all day long...

I LOATHE the parking lot and the trams..so I just make it easier on myself..

Now some may say I am wrong and some may say it does not matter...but it is what I do and have been doing for years..I have never had a problem parking there and I have never been told I had a set amount of time to stay in the parking lot...:shrug:I also know of a lot of other people that have done the same thing with no problem at all.

Doug..as for the pool thing..we used to do that when we were little all the time..go swimming at the Poly..I still remember some of the people we met there doing the same thing.

No matter what...people are going to have something to say about lying and stealing and setting a better example for your kids...


So while I may not get Maggie in free till she is 5..or whether I only use the pool at the resort I am staying at..it is not my place to judge people who do those things...

 

[disneychic71]

When I was young, we visited Disneyland over my third birthday (yeah, it was great!). What I remember most is the Matterhorn and meeting Winnie the Pooh, but my mom loves to tell the story of the ticket booth. The first day we visited, I was still two, and got in free (without a ticket book). However, the day of my third birthday my father paid for my ticket. My mother thought he was crazy--who would have known? But in dad's opinion, you must always do what's right.
I guess that has rubbed off on me, because I am a rule follower through and through. I don't pool hop, lie about my kids' ages, use a fastpass after the posted time, etc. Of these, however, I find the fastpass buisness the most tolerable.
I can certainly sympathize with the poster who mentioned having tall kids and getting funny looks: my son is also tall for his age and we got the same looks!

 

[disneychic71]

I have an 8 year old that hardly goes on any rides, he hates rides but he loves the atmosphere, I would love to pay less for him since he doesn't actually go on anything.

On a similar note: why don't they reduce prices for retirees? I love to visit with my parents, but the hardly go on any rides. They enjoy shopping/eating etc. They still spend plenty, so I don't see a problem with discounting their tickets. Just my opinion! I know some elderly people love the roller coasters, but it seems like probably a minority!




Im sooo with you on that one.[/quote]

 

[dopeylove]

(i bolded the subjects of each paragraph)
Here is the deal. Well, at least my deal:

Pool hopping is okay. It really doesnt cause any problems that i have seen in the past 21 years of my life, and, it is very enjoyable to try out other themed-resorts and test them out or just enjoy a "pool" day.

Lying about a persons age is a slippery slope, but, i sympathize with people in negative financial situations and could certainly understand if people had to do that in order to afford a day at the parks. the problem is, a) you will never stop this b) disney can never really prove anything and c) you can never assume people's reasoning, and once you start doing that you start to judge and label people unfairly. if a system is so easily manipulated, then maybe its more appropriate to try and fix the system instead of trying to stop the people manipulating it.

I personally dont really care about people getting more passes for EMH. Like the "getting kids passes" problem, people are RARELY doing this and when they do, it is probably because they geniunely want to have a good time with their friends who are probably less fortunate than them and could not afford the disney resorts in the first place. People have to be careful that they dont quickly judge the people doing this. everyone just wants to have a good time, and until the system improves, let them have their fun.

Oh, and last but nut least, using Fast passes out of the time frame is perfectly acceptable to most CMs and *again* rarely creates any problems. Since the tickets give a time limit, most people will follow it and most people go to the attraction right when their fast pass begins. I know that when I use a fastpass outside its time limit it is because I just couldn't get there in time due to traffic, or being delayed by a meal or another attraction.

I think the moral of the story is that we cant be too quick to judge people's intentions, and that all of these things RARELY ever cause problems. If Disney really was that worried/frustrated about this, they would put the resources towards fixing the systems implemented.

I also will clap for the people who actually read all of this. :sohappy:
:wave:

I read it and I applaud YOU. There is so much to deal with in life that we really shouldn't sweat the small stuff.

I have an autistic child that I will be taking care of for the rest of my life. When we go to Disney, I go out of my way when I spot a family with someone who has disabilities (yes, I have this autism radar going at all times and I can spot them from a mile away!) I try to give them some tips so that their Disney experience will be more enjoyable and memorable, like others have done for me. I believe in PAY IT FORWARD.

And if anyone on this forum is totally and completely 100% honest 24/7, I tip my hat to you, but that would be a rarity. We are all human and THAT doesn't make us perfect...