Well, Universal may think WDW announcements are pending...

jt04

Well-Known Member
Dude, check it again... Trust me... I did study copryright law in school... You cannot freely use intellectual material without permission... Just because someone leaked blue prints does not give these sites the right to publish them.... They are still protected and Disney has every legal right to force a site to remove them...

Think about it like this... You go record a CD... Someone at the studio released the songs to a website... That record company has every right to legally force the site to remove the recorded tracks... They cannot stop people from talking about it, but they can stop the site from posting the recordings..

Disney CAN legally force sites to remove things images if they so choose...

I clearly stated you can't use copyrighted material for personal gain. Such as a web site charging to have the copyrighted material sent to you.

BUT, once it's in the public domain people are free to discuss it, they just can't sell it.

That is all I'm talking about. The bolded is what I am refering to. Are you telling me that if the Orlando Sentinal decided to publish the plans Disney could sue them? Ummmmmm, no way.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
I clearly stated you can't use copyrighted material for personal gain. Such as a web site charging to have the copyrighted material sent to you.

BUT, once it's in the public domain people are free to discuss it, they just can't sell it.

That is all I'm talking about. The bolded is what I am refering to. Are you telling me that if the Orlando Sentinal decided to publish the plans Disney could sue them? Ummmmmm, no way.

Should Disney choose to pursue it, they would have a reasonably strong claim against the Sentinel for misappropriation of a trade secret. The 'reasonably strong' aspect comes by virtue of them being Disney and having an extremely aggressive counsel and deep pockets. On black letter law alone, they might have a claim. It would take some intelligent lawyering to bring the plans under the legal umbrella of 'trade secret' and it would also be difficult to establish that the Sentinel used any 'improper means' in publishing the plans. Theoretically, it is possible, although improbable. At the very least, I think the case would withstand summary judgment.

The very threat alone makes it clear why sites such as this one would comply with any C&D letter sent by Disney. I have no idea how much money, if any, Steve makes off this site. Without seeing any numbers, I can tell you its not enough to win that suit against Disney. I am a little shocked that the Sentinel would publish anything regarding the plans against Disney's wishes (if Disney did in fact request the plans, or any discussion thereof, not be published).
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Should Disney choose to pursue it, they would have a reasonably strong claim against the Sentinel for misappropriation of a trade secret. The 'reasonably strong' aspect comes by virtue of them being Disney and having an extremely aggressive counsel and deep pockets. On black letter law alone, they might have a claim. It would take some intelligent lawyering to bring the plans under the legal umbrella of 'trade secret' and it would also be difficult to establish that the Sentinel used any 'improper means' in publishing the plans. Theoretically, it is possible, although improbable. At the very least, I think the case would withstand summary judgment.

The very threat alone makes it clear why sites such as this one would comply with any C&D letter sent by Disney. I have no idea how much money, if any, Steve makes off this site. Without seeing any numbers, I can tell you its not enough to win that suit against Disney. I am a little shocked that the Sentinel would publish anything regarding the plans against Disney's wishes (if Disney did in fact request the plans, or any discussion thereof, not be published).

Great response.

But I think freedom of the press trumps everything. We are in a bold new era, where law will have to decide if every blog or news web site has all the rights afforded to the press under the constitution. I think they probably do. And as I said earlier, it is up to individual companies to safeguard their own information.

If you ever hear of some sort of "czar of information" position being created it would be time to be afraid. Very afraid. :eek:
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Should Disney choose to pursue it, they would have a reasonably strong claim against the Sentinel for misappropriation of a trade secret. The 'reasonably strong' aspect comes by virtue of them being Disney and having an extremely aggressive counsel and deep pockets. On black letter law alone, they might have a claim. It would take some intelligent lawyering to bring the plans under the legal umbrella of 'trade secret' and it would also be difficult to establish that the Sentinel used any 'improper means' in publishing the plans. Theoretically, it is possible, although improbable. At the very least, I think the case would withstand summary judgment.

The very threat alone makes it clear why sites such as this one would comply with any C&D letter sent by Disney. I have no idea how much money, if any, Steve makes off this site. Without seeing any numbers, I can tell you its not enough to win that suit against Disney. I am a little shocked that the Sentinel would publish anything regarding the plans against Disney's wishes (if Disney did in fact request the plans, or any discussion thereof, not be published).

This is why I don't believe Disney asked for or demand the plans to be taken down... I believe it was Steve's decision alone, with no C&D letter from Disney at all... I fully believe Disney would have requested/demanded other sites as well... WDWMagic isn't the only Disney fan board out there..

Again, several things are happening here:

1) The plans are a fake and no harm/foul done to Disney so they didn't care
2) The plans are real and Disney didn't care they were leaked cause they wanted good news on fansites after a string of bad news
3) The plans were at one time real, and no longer in the mix so no harm/foul don't by them being leaked

I am starting to feel something fishy going on now...
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Great response.

But I think freedom of the press trumps everything. We are in a bold new era, where law will have to decide if every blog or news web site has all the rights afforded to the press under the constitution. I think they probably do. And as I said earlier, it is up to individual companies to safeguard their own information.

If you ever hear of some sort of "czar of information" position being created it would be time to be afraid. Very afraid. :eek:

Well, Google was just forced by our courts to turn over an email address of a blogger.... So, your rights aren't all they are cut out to be jt...
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Well, Google was just forced by our courts to turn over an email address of a blogger.... So, your rights aren't all they are cut out to be jt...

Freedom of the press is not all encompassing. The press can't libel or make threats or incite etc.

But that is not what we are discussing here. Publishing leaked information as part of informing the public is certainly protected by the 1st amendment.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
Great response.

But I think freedom of the press trumps everything. We are in a bold new era, where law will have to decide if every blog or news web site has all the rights afforded to the press under the constitution. I think they probably do. And as I said earlier, it is up to individual companies to safeguard their own information.

If you ever hear of some sort of "czar of information" position being created it would be time to be afraid. Very afraid. :eek:

It is up to individual companies to safeguard their own information, and much is to be said for corporate accountability, but if the company fails to safeguard said information (or rather, if those safeguards fail), they do have legal recourse. You and I may not agree with that, but the law is what it is.

An example I've always liked is of Pepsi and Coca Cola. Coca Cola's recipely for Coke is one of the most famous trade secrets. Very few employees at Coca Cola know the recipe, and those who do have signed long and carefully drafted NDAs. Some disgruntled members of Coca Cola management went to Pepsi, and offered to sell Pepsi Co. the recipe. Pepsi refused the information, and immediately called the authorities. The reason? Pepsi would have spent millions litigating the issue with Coca Cola had they bought the formula, and would have lost in court.

You are welcome to think freedom of the press trumps here. I would imagine the Sentinel would make that argument. I would disagree with your assessment that it is certain that that freedom trumps here. Our courts have been very conservative when protecting intellectual property. In any case, why risk it? And against Disney?! Certainly, you must pick some battles and test your ideology and rights. This isn't a battle you pick (if there really was a battle at all...I agree with dxer07002 that the Sentinel likely never received any threat). You don't get into a legal p*ssing match with Disney. Right or wrong, you won't win.

Moreover, it isn't pragmatic for the Sentinel to get into a ing match with Disney. Alienating Disney over something so small is a great way to lose a direct source of information on one of the biggest topics about which they report. It just isn't worth it.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
It is up to individual companies to safeguard their own information, and much is to be said for corporate accountability, but if the company fails to safeguard said information (or rather, if those safeguards fail), they do have legal recourse. You and I may not agree with that, but the law is what it is.

An example I've always liked is of Pepsi and Coca Cola. Coca Cola's recipely for Coke is one of the most famous trade secrets. Very few employees at Coca Cola know the recipe, and those who do have signed long and carefully drafted NDAs. Some disgruntled members of Coca Cola management went to Pepsi, and offered to sell Pepsi Co. the recipe. Pepsi refused the information, and immediately called the authorities. The reason? Pepsi would have spent millions litigating the issue with Coca Cola had they bought the formula, and would have lost in court.

You are welcome to think freedom of the press trumps here. I would imagine the Sentinel would make that argument. I would disagree with your assessment that it is certain that that freedom trumps here. Our courts have been very conservative when protecting intellectual property. In any case, why risk it? And against Disney?! Certainly, you must pick some battles and test your ideology and rights. This isn't a battle you pick (if there really was a battle at all...I agree with dxer07002 that the Sentinel likely never received any threat). You don't get into a legal p*ssing match with Disney. Right or wrong, you won't win.

Moreover, it isn't pragmatic for the Sentinel to get into a ing match with Disney. Alienating Disney over something so small is a great way to lose a direct source of information on one of the biggest topics about which they report. It just isn't worth it.

I am talking bigger picture here, not specifically the Fantasyland plans or coke's secret recipe. It is the presses responsibility to be a watch dog and publish information in the public interest whether it is proprietary or not. Also it is protected if it is reporting on public or private sectors.

The real question we are discussing is whether internet blogs or news sites have those rights. I contend they do. And so any site or individual on a forum that displayed the plans were well within their rights.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
It is up to individual companies to safeguard their own information, and much is to be said for corporate accountability, but if the company fails to safeguard said information (or rather, if those safeguards fail), they do have legal recourse. You and I may not agree with that, but the law is what it is.

An example I've always liked is of Pepsi and Coca Cola. Coca Cola's recipely for Coke is one of the most famous trade secrets. Very few employees at Coca Cola know the recipe, and those who do have signed long and carefully drafted NDAs. Some disgruntled members of Coca Cola management went to Pepsi, and offered to sell Pepsi Co. the recipe. Pepsi refused the information, and immediately called the authorities. The reason? Pepsi would have spent millions litigating the issue with Coca Cola had they bought the formula, and would have lost in court.

You are welcome to think freedom of the press trumps here. I would imagine the Sentinel would make that argument. I would disagree with your assessment that it is certain that that freedom trumps here. Our courts have been very conservative when protecting intellectual property. In any case, why risk it? And against Disney?! Certainly, you must pick some battles and test your ideology and rights. This isn't a battle you pick (if there really was a battle at all...I agree with dxer07002 that the Sentinel likely never received any threat). You don't get into a legal p*ssing match with Disney. Right or wrong, you won't win.

Moreover, it isn't pragmatic for the Sentinel to get into a ing match with Disney. Alienating Disney over something so small is a great way to lose a direct source of information on one of the biggest topics about which they report. It just isn't worth it.

Great post there Figment... The company I work for, in the financial industry, bars us from writing books about the trade.. If we do, we need specific authority from high up in the company.. And with that, the company actually receives the rights to our written work...Fight them in court and we lose... We leave the firm, then write about them, we lose in court...

Disney will fight ANYONE they need to if plans were 100 percent real or were not meant to be public... Sure, a simple C&D letter would be the first notification.. Failure to comply, you are sued.... That is how it works in the corporate world..

jt, you need to realize that just because we have freedom of selected speech, that not everything is protected by this freedom... Copyright laws TRUMP your first amendment... And this would be the case here...
 

CBOMB

Active Member
Yep, Steve is a class act. It amazes me that he and Pumbas live on the same island.

:lol:
But they live in different Countries. Just think about it, you, and '74 live in the same Country.
That he does.

But like I said, if WDW gets shut out at D23, I will be apologizing to 74 and Cbomb etc. and exiling myself from this site. So look on the bright side, you won't have to deal with me anymore. :lol:
Why would you apologise to me. I have no idea what is going to be announced at D23. You might be correct or maybe you're not, so what. Besides you are entitled to your opinion no matter how ludicrous it might be.:D

Why exile yourself from this site? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and sometimes those opinions can be wrong. No need to pack up, and leave. Besides your pasion to defend the WDC amuses me sometimes.

Edit; Ive got this idea.

Hey Steve..... did Disney tell you to take down those plans for FL or did you do it because you felt it was the prudent thing to do?
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
But like I said, if WDW gets shut out at D23, I will be apologizing to 74 and Cbomb etc. and exiling myself from this site. So look on the bright side, you won't have to deal with me anymore. :lol:

WDW won't get "shut out" at D23 Expo. There will at least be a Star Tours 2.0 announcement for WDW. And who knows what else? There may not be a big detailed model of the New Fantasyland project on the exhibit floor like they'll have for CarsLand, but you never know what Jay Rasulo may say in his keynote address and what WDI artwork for WDW projects may get displayed for a few moments on the big video screens in the Anaheim Arena.

It's the executive keynote addresses in this building that will likely hold the most surprises for WDW parks at D23 Expo.

490730041_0a688c8d78.jpg


And, although it looks like '09 will be Anaheim's year at D23 when it comes to park news, there is still '10 and '11 D23 Expos to put on a big show that is primarily about all the new stuff announced for WDW property.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
So its basically sounding like we may not even be getting Mermaid now? MK is in dire need of expansion and sooner rather than later. Im thinking the whole fantasyland thing was a bunch of flubber too but I was at least expecting Mermaid to be announced. Not just star tours 2. big whoop. ok im impatient I know, I want much more :wave:
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
So its basically sounding like we may not even be getting Mermaid now? MK is in dire need of expansion and sooner rather than later. Im thinking the whole fantasyland thing was a bunch of flubber too but I was at least expecting Mermaid to be announced. Not just star tours 2. big whoop. ok im impatient I know, I want much more :wave:

I'm hoping so too.

I think TLM is still in the forcast. At least, I hope it is.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Wait, I think Little Mermaid could be announced for WDW at D23 Expo! We kind of forgot about that, but it's a definite possibility for an announcement next week.

It's likely that it's not going to make it by the October, 2011 deadline for the 40th Anniversary, unless the bulldozers move in to start clearing earth the Monday after D23 Expo ends. But, Jay could still announce that it's on the way for WDW next week.

I really think people will be satisfied with the amount of WDW info and news released next week at D23 Expo. Burbank has to realize that they need to say something about WDW plans. They just have to.
 

toolsnspools

Well-Known Member
Speaking of buldozers and MK re-furbs, has anyone noticed that both sides of COP have now been levelled? I'm only speculating, but If there is going to be a HUGE announcement about MK, I think you have to follow the dozer tracks.

The blueprints of FL are nice, but IMO they are more likely just concept art. And if you're going to hide a major TL refurb in plain site, you might need a distraction like "leaked" FL plans. I can't see why they would wipe out Toontown Fair anyway. It is always packed with families with young kids. :shrug: There's no better place in MK to get your ankles busted up by strollers.
 

SirGoofy

Member
Speaking of buldozers and MK re-furbs, has anyone noticed that both sides of COP have now been levelled? I'm only speculating, but If there is going to be a HUGE announcement about MK, I think you have to follow the dozer tracks.

The blueprints of FL are nice, but IMO they are more likely just concept art. And if you're going to hide a major TL refurb in plain site, you might need a distraction like "leaked" FL plans. I can't see why they would wipe out Toontown Fair anyway. It is always packed with families with young kids. :shrug: There's no better place in MK to get your ankles busted up by strollers.

Most of Tomorrowland is too new to go under the knife though. I don't see a Tomorrowland change coming anytime soon.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Speaking of buldozers and MK re-furbs, has anyone noticed that both sides of COP have now been levelled? I'm only speculating, but If there is going to be a HUGE announcement about MK, I think you have to follow the dozer tracks.

The blueprints of FL are nice, but IMO they are more likely just concept art. And if you're going to hide a major TL refurb in plain site, you might need a distraction like "leaked" FL plans. I can't see why they would wipe out Toontown Fair anyway. It is always packed with families with young kids. :shrug: There's no better place in MK to get your ankles busted up by strollers.

1) Toontown was meant to be temporary
 

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