WDW Fan Base Initiative

[wedway71]

Simply state FACTS... not SPECULATION...

If something is down or broken... like the poster stated before...

ISSUE+LENGTH OF TIME+PICS+ QUESTION AS TO WHY.


I am not sticking up for Disney, but after 20 years of management, sometimes, there is a valid reason as to why that issue has not been fixed..

Jut saying...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Perhaps, but how is that statement in anyway constructive?

How is a park level executive going to look at that statement and not dismiss it as "just another angry internet fan boy"? How is the average guest not going to look at that statement the same way?

To affect change in a business, you must hit the business where they care. PR and the pocketbook.

From a PR standpoint it is much harder to argue with simple statements of fact (Rock work missing from Big Thunder for 7 month 2 days) than standard internet hyperbole (I could fix that with three popsicle sticks and some gum).


From a pocketbook standpoint, it's making the website as accessible as possible to the general public. Again, I would think the best way to do that would be to steer away from internet hyperbole.

Bottom line is antagonistic has been tried and wasn't very effective, so why not take the harder road of moderate, calculated criticism?

I like the idea of a simple effects watch being the backbone of the site. Just think if the site could be an add-on to Lines or Touring Plans where traffic for people planning vacation can see what they are missing as they go through the parks.

The possibilities are pretty great with this if done correctly, why marginalize it with unnecessary opinion and exaggeration?

Completely agree. That's why I think a straight list of effects and status and how long it's been that way would have the most impact. A suit would have a lot harder time explaining that away.

 

[mkt]

We definitely don't need to write up a full business plan at this point. This isn't a business venture, we're not looking to generate income, and there isn't a market to analyze with competition unless you consider the Disney Social Media Machine. Most of the other stuff you mentioned we're already talking over. But a SWOT analysis really?

As Tom said we're taking a step back at this moment to re-evaluate the approach. But full front on attack is not in the cards at this moment. We need to get established, we need to get a following, and we need to attract the kind of person/people who have the knowledge to help with that should we take it to that point.

Tom. I still think a wiki on the effects watch is a great idea for participation at least. As long as it's limited to what can be updated and has a strict format (ie: what effect, what's wrong with it, when did you notice it, etc) there won't be too much of an issue. I think this would be huge to help drive traffic.

And we're ok using the Waltograph font. It's not copywrited and most of the fonts available on the internet have slight variations in them anyway. Someone did mention though that we might want a name change to something slightly more positive...

so much to think about!

Yes. A SWOT Analysis. You need to know what you're working with before you start- that is the purpose of it. You don't need to be making a penny to realize the validity of it as an exercise.

As far as Waltograph goes, it is copyrighted- however, the license attached to it is specifically for Personal Use. Make sure that your site doesn't get into any gray areas.

 

[jmick71]

here's the new sketch, I don't think the gloves are copyrighted because they appear on allot of non disney cartoon characters and non disney merchandise

Also colors:
Wood: look like wood... Duh
gloves:white with some shading
magic: blue or red with yellow border
The:Black? blue? red?
hammer and paint brush: look like Hammer and paint brush... :lookaroun

 

[mkt]

WE HOLD DISNEY TO A HIGHER STANDARD......BECAUSE DISNEY HOLDS ITSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD.

If we hold Disney to a higher standard, we should hold ourselves to the same standard.

So far the discussion on this project from those behind it haven't led me to believe that it will be at the same standard. Why should it be taken seriously then?

If you want to show someone they're wrong, you HAVE to do it right.

 

[mkt]

here's the new sketch, I don't think the gloves are copyrighted because they appear on allot of non disney cartoon characters and non disney merchandise

Also colors:
Wood: look like wood... Duh
gloves:white with some shading
magic: blue or red with yellow border
The:Black? blue? red?
hammer and paint brush: look like Hammer and paint brush... :lookaroun

Nice. It'll look great after a trip to Illustrator.

We used the glove a lot around D-Troops. I consulted with an IP attorney who deals with Disney a lot, and he suggested to remove the stripes, or change the number of stripes, so there's less chance of actual confusion.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Since I don't read minds I don't know what you are suggesting. Feel free to share.

The idea that we should "pass the hat around" and take it to Disney and ask them to fix anything is laughable. I'll take it a step further. It's offensive.

The Parks Division of TWDC is a multi-BILLION dollar a year organization. They've spent the better part of the last 10 years at WDW raising prices, dropping quality, and dropping perks and benefits. They don't choose to not maintain attractions properly because they don't have the money... They choose not to maintain attractions properly because they cut those corners in order to increase shareholder profits every single quarter.

I picture one of the TDO suits reading your post and laughing his head off at the thought of us taking $5,000 to them to ask them to fix the waterfalls on Everest with it.

Not only that, but they had no problems properly maintaining everything (or at least much much better) with FAR less revenue during the late 80's and 90's.

We already pay for this stuff to be maintained. It's called park admission. And parking fees. And the insanely stupid Dining Plan. Etc, etc... I'm not taking another penny out of my pocket (and neither should anyone else) to help them do their jobs they should already be doing. In fact, I'm doing the exact OPPOSITE. My family is DL passholders for the very first time, and we'll have made three trips there this calander year. WDW won't see a penny. I'll find another place to get my fix.

The view you have is a scary one... And that viewpoint is the exact strikezone of the kind of guest TDO wants to have.

There. Now you don't have to "read my mind".

 

[Tom]

Yes. A SWOT Analysis. You need to know what you're working with before you start- that is the purpose of it. You don't need to be making a penny to realize the validity of it as an exercise.

As far as Waltograph goes, it is copyrighted- however, the license attached to it is specifically for Personal Use. Make sure that your site doesn't get into any gray areas.

Rob, you're absolutely right. We need a definitive plan for this, and I think that's where a lot of this discussion is steering us. I'm not one to jump into things, but last night I was apparently in "a mood". I like the domain name, but I don't like the format of the site, as is. It was just "easy" to use as a placeholder.

here's the new sketch, I don't think the gloves are copyrighted because they appear on allot of non disney cartoon characters and non disney merchandise

Also colors:
Wood: look like wood... Duh
gloves:white with some shading
magic: blue or red with yellow border
The:Black? blue? red?
hammer and paint brush: look like Hammer and paint brush... :lookaroun

Wow! I like it! But as Rob mentioned, and as I'll reiterate, we do need to steer clear of obvious infringement. His comment about the number of lines on the gloves is quite true. Need to assess Mickey's gloves and make sure these are different. Other than that, it's a very clever, and well drawn logo. I just hope it isn't too "silly" for where I want this to go. Perhaps with the proper shading and subtlety, it can still look appropriate.

If we hold Disney to a higher standard, we should hold ourselves to the same standard.

So far the discussion on this project from those behind it haven't led me to believe that it will be at the same standard. Why should it be taken seriously then?

If you want to show someone they're wrong, you HAVE to do it right.

My belief is that the site needs to appear as if it's a legitimate "newsworthy" site. Simplistic design. Easy to navigate. Area dedicated to "editorials" (blog). Area dedicated to factual tracking of "failures". Area dedicated to photos (gallery of some sort).

I'm teetering on the wiki thing. You get into so much of a loss of control, because it's hard to moderate an entire wiki.....I've tried. It can spiral out of control real fast. Same with a forum. In order for this to retain credibility, it needs to be governed. I would say that if people want to submit something, we have a form or a general inbox for sending topics, comments, updates and photos. Then the site moderators filter and post accordingly.

 

[jmick71]

Wow! I like it! But as Rob mentioned, and as I'll reiterate, we do need to steer clear of obvious infringement. His comment about the number of lines on the gloves is quite true. Need to assess Mickey's gloves and make sure these are different. Other than that, it's a very clever, and well drawn logo. I just hope it isn't too "silly" for where I want this to go. Perhaps with the proper shading and subtlety, it can still look appropriate.

one more stripe and we'r off to illustrator, any more changes you would like me to make

 

[Krack]

The possibilities are pretty great with this if done correctly, why marginalize it with unnecessary opinion and exaggeration?

First of all, my opinion was not an exaggeration; I could, in fact, fix BTMR better than that tarp for less than $200 and I could do it in less than 2 hours.

Second, we simply disagree about what "done correctly" constitutes; although I don't think we are that far away from each other. You seem to think that management would be willing to fix things, but that they are unaware of all the problems or that they are simply spiteful and don't like being criticized so they would rather not fix it than please the "fanboys". On the other hand, I think I could walk in TDO daily with a list of broken effects and unaddressed maintenance issues and it would accomplish exactly nothing.

The truth is, the only way things will be fixed is if it starts affecting profits. And the only way profits are going to be affected is if the general public's opinion of the WDW experience is soured. And unfortunately, that means the only way a site like the one being discussed will affect change (in my opinion) is if its purpose is to sour the opinion of the resort of anyone looking at the site ... and some of them stop going and stop spending. Yes, I know it sounds abhorrent, but the only way to make the site work is for the site to create negative publicity. In order for a site like this to be successful, it needs to force the shareholders and the board and the head of the company to ask the head of TDO, the VP heads of the individual parks (etc), "Why is WDW getting so much bad publicity? Why is it that everytime I read something in the paper, or in a magazine, or on the internet, it mentions how poorly WDW is run compared to our other parks?"

That is how you affect change. And, again in my opinion, that is what a site like this needs to be in order to be successful. A site like this needs to make Staggs both famous (to the general public) and accountable. And if change does not occur, it needs to make his name "mud" in the Disney community like Pressler's. It sounds terrible and unDisneylike, but it's the truth.

 

[mkt]

First of all, my opinion was not an exaggeration; I could, in fact, fix BTMR better than that tarp for less than $200 and I could do it in less than 2 hours.

Second, we simply disagree about what "done correctly" constitutes; although I don't think we are that far away from each other. You seem to think that management would be willing to fix things, but that they are unaware of all the problems or that they are simply spiteful and don't like being criticized so they would rather not fix it than please the "fanboys". On the other hand, I think I could walk in TDO daily with a list of broken effects and unaddressed maintenance issues and it would accomplish exactly nothing.

The truth is, the only way things will be fixed is if it starts affecting profits. And the only way profits are going to be affected is if the general public's opinion of the WDW experience is soured. And unfortunately, that means the only way a site like the one being discussed will affect change (in my opinion) is if its purpose is to sour the opinion of the resort of anyone looking at the site ... and some of them stop going and stop spending. Yes, I know it sounds abhorrent, but the only way to make the site work is for the site to create negative publicity. In order for a site like this to be successful, it needs to force the shareholders and the board and the head of the company to ask the head of TDO, the VP heads of the individual parks (etc), "Why is WDW getting so much bad publicity? Why is it that everytime I read something in the paper, or in a magazine, or on the internet, it mentions how poorly WDW is run compared to our other parks?"

That is how you affect change. And, again in my opinion, that is what a site like this needs to be in order to be successful. A site like this needs to make Staggs both famous (to the general public) and accountable. And if change does not occur, it needs to make his name "mud" in the Disney community like Pressler's. It sounds terrible and unDisneylike, but it's the truth.

Ignorance is bliss. Would you purposely attempt to sour the public impression of Disney to accomplish your goal?

 

[Krack]

Ignorance is bliss. Would you purposely attempt to sour the public impression of Disney to accomplish your goal?

If all I had to do was present the truth? Certainly. That's what Lutz did and California has the best park in the world because of it.

 

[mkt]

If all I had to do was present the truth? Certainly. That's what Lutz did and California has the best park in the world because of it.

There's a difference between letting out the truth and letting it out tactfully. Either way it comes out, but only one way it comes out with you not looking lack an a____________.

 

[mickey2008.1]

I love the idea and the logo. But some of the people responding are so negative, it would just ruin the whole thing. Negativity gets you know where, where constructive critism does. Its about facts, and pictures, and real experiences. As one who has emailed wdw guest relations twice, i have had great results, without being an ! With that in mind, i will gladly join to help out with reviewing comments before they are posted, sent, or otherwise. This has to be a site that is monitored before being allowed to be posted/ sent.

 

[MickeyPeace]

The idea that we should "pass the hat around" and take it to Disney and ask them to fix anything is laughable. I'll take it a step further. It's offensive.

The Parks Division of TWDC is a multi-BILLION dollar a year organization. They've spent the better part of the last 10 years at WDW raising prices, dropping quality, and dropping perks and benefits. They don't choose to not maintain attractions properly because they don't have the money... They choose not to maintain attractions properly because they cut those corners in order to increase shareholder profits every single quarter.

I picture one of the TDO suits reading your post and laughing his head off at the thought of us taking $5,000 to them to ask them to fix the waterfalls on Everest with it.

Not only that, but they had no problems properly maintaining everything (or at least much much better) with FAR less revenue during the late 80's and 90's.

We already pay for this stuff to be maintained. It's called park admission. And parking fees. And the insanely stupid Dining Plan. Etc, etc... I'm not taking another penny out of my pocket (and neither should anyone else) to help them do their jobs they should already be doing. In fact, I'm doing the exact OPPOSITE. My family is DL passholders for the very first time, and we'll have made three trips there this calander year. WDW won't see a penny. I'll find another place to get my fix.

The view you have is a scary one... And that viewpoint is the exact strikezone of the kind of guest TDO wants to have.

There. Now you don't have to "read my mind".

First off, the tone of your post is so harsh that I have to wonder if you have some sort of ax to grind with me. It's odd that you are so "offended".

Having said that, my idea was just that- and idea to be talked about. Part of the thought process was that Disney is concerned about money and the bottom line as was previously mentioned. I find it hard to believe that the top earning park in the country doesn't have the money to fix these problems. Therefore as you said they are cutting corners.

Money talks. Imagine the spotlight that would be directed at this issue if a committee approached them with the funds to fix one problem. Jason Garcia of the Orlando Sentinel could write about it. It would without question bring attention to the issue. My idea is about press, money and influence.
It would make a statement for sure. I guarantee TDO suits would not be laughing their heads off.

I agree that we pay enough for admission for these things to be fixed but they are not being fixed. That is the point of everyone here creating a group and a website.
We are trying to bring attention to these problems.

I agree you should take your dollars elsewhere if you are not happy.

 

[disneyrcks]

First off, the tone of your post is so harsh that I have to wonder if you have some sort of ax to grind with me. It's odd that you are so "offended".

Having said that, my idea was just that- and idea to be talked about. Part of the thought process was that Disney is concerned about money and the bottom line as was previously mentioned. I find it hard to believe that the top earning park in the country doesn't have the money to fix these problems. Therefore as you said they are cutting corners.

Money talks. Imagine the spotlight that would be directed at this issue if a committee approached them with the funds to fix one problem. Jason Garcia of the Orlando Sentinel could write about it. It would without question bring attention to the issue. My idea is about press, money and influence.
It would make a statement for sure. I guarantee TDO suits would not be laughing their heads off.

I agree that we pay enough for admission for these things to be fixed but they are not being fixed. That is the point of everyone here creating a group and a website.
We are trying to bring attention to these problems.

I agree you should take your dollars elsewhere if you are not happy.

It is definitely an idea but as far as press goes the Orlando press may be favorable but I think the rest of the country would spin it as a crazy, attention seeking move. Now that may be what you all are looking for but I think it could generate some negative press for your group. I am speaking from the point of view as a person who goes to Disney about every three to four months, is a member of the vacation club and never notices when something is not working. I am honestly at this point embarrased by it, that I do not notice these things. This whole movement has made me more aware but if I saw a group attempt to give Disney money to repair a ride I would think "awwwww good for them" as in it is an awkward attempt at some publicity. However I think it is a great idea just might not work on such a huge company.

I do support what the members are doing and I applaud you guys for taking the initiative to do something! Good luck with the project!

 

[Krack]

There's a difference between letting out the truth and letting it out tactfully. Either way it comes out, but only one way it comes out with you not looking lack an a____________.

I know you may find this surprising, but I honestly couldn't care less what anybody's opinion of me is (particularly on this forum). Not because I don't respect or like the people on the forum (I do), but I can't spend my life concerned with what might upset the delicate sensibilities of a few anonymous strangers; particularly if my honest opinion is what they can't bear to hear. I want the parks fixed. Whatever gets them fixed is fine by me.

Think about this for a second, the best thing to happen in the Magic Kingdom in the last decade was that some idiot sparked a fire in Adventureland. Seriously, that's the best thing that has happened in over 10 years. Fix the parks, that's all I care about.

Opinions my vary. And that's fine. But the course of action I advocate has already worked once (with the same company).

 

[devoy1701]

We completely understand that the best way to affect change at WDW is to affect their pockets and to create public awareness to lower attendance. But if you also hadn't noticed, that task is damn near impossible.

The other way to affect change though is to become a nuisance to TDO driving them to fix things so they can just stop hearing about them. I honestly think that there are not enough people on a day-to-day basis stopping by City Hall or Guest Relations in the other parks and complaining about the bad show that has been creeping up on us over the last decade. This is something that I do infact think we have a shot at affecting if we are successful at presenting the issues and increasing awareness about them.

If anything, this will be a public awareness campaign. This site will put out in the open the problems around the resort, including the parks, the hotels, and other guests areas and blatently state how long the effect has gone broken. In addition to that we will offer spotlight articles that are well-written and critical but not slanderous. As others have mentioned, we've all been trying the slanderous approach but it does not work, and you don't attract average park guests who are looking things up on the internet by being slanderous about a place that they "just love" or think "is perfect". I can just imagine them getting halfway through an article and going "hah! These people don't love Walt Disney World!" and never looking at our site again.

Moderation and persistence with presenting the facts is going to be our key here.

Tom/Rob...I'm a finance and business management major...I have always had some marketer perform my SWOT! :lol: :lookaroun

jmick! Amazing Artwork! I picture t-shirts in our future! :king:

 

[jakeman]

There's a difference between letting out the truth and letting it out tactfully. Either way it comes out, but only one way it comes out with you not looking lack an a____________.

Well that's the crux of my position summed up in a sentence. :lol:

I know you may find this surprising, but I honestly couldn't care less what anybody's opinion of me is (particularly on this forum). Not because I don't respect or like the people on the forum (I do), but I can't spend my life concerned with what might upset the delicate sensibilities of a few anonymous strangers; particularly if my honest opinion is what they can't bear to hear. I want the parks fixed. Whatever gets them fixed is fine by me.

The difference is, for this endeavor to be sucessful it's not just the "few anonymous strangers". It's executives, press, and the general public. All of those people are more than willing to dismiss an opinion that isn't grounded in tangible evidence.

There is an old saying, "Cut off your nose to spite your face." That seems to be the tactic you're advocating.

Think about this for a second, the best thing to happen in the Magic Kingdom in the last decade was that some idiot sparked a fire in Adventureland. Seriously, that's the best thing that has happened in over 10 years. Fix the parks, that's all I care about.

Your passion is admirable, but at the end of the day, it's hyperbole.

What about the Haunted Mansion refurb? Small World's huge refurb 6 years ago? The Holiday lights installed on the Castle.

By not acknowledging the good, you are only focusing on the bad and blind rage is pretty off putting.

Opinions my vary. And that's fine. But the course of action I advocate has already worked once (with the same company).

I'm curious as to when you think this change occurred at DL?

 

[jakeman]

Moderation and persistence with presenting the facts is going to be our key here.

This sounds like a great motto!