WDW Fan Base Initiative

[Buried20KLeague]

Thinking outside of the box, I had the wild idea of a sort of WDW PAC. Is there some sort of way to form a committee which raises money for fixing these attractions (details that Disney deems trivial or not contributing to the bottom line) though the PAC?

I hope you're not suggesting what I think you're suggesting...

 

[MickeyPeace]

I hope you're not suggesting what I think you're suggesting...

Since I don't read minds I don't know what you are suggesting. Feel free to share.

Regarding the quote you referenced, maybe it could start out as more of a rescue committee which will raise funds and direct it to the person responsible for fixing whatever it is that is broken (ie the stone in BTMRR). And then later act as a PAC if need be, in order to throw support behind replacing a lame duck!

 

[devoy1701]

Overall, I say that 3,000 views in 24 hrs is a pretty decent following for this thread. There has been a lot of great feedback so far. Keep it coming! Everything suggest helps!

 

[mkt]

Thinking outside of the box, I had the wild idea of a sort of WDW PAC. Is there some sort of way to form a committee which raises money for fixing these attractions (details that Disney deems trivial or not contributing to the bottom line) though the PAC?

That's not thinking outside the box. That's thinking outside the same neighborhood.

If Disney were a government agency, I could see it working. However, as a private business, it won't work. Disney will refuse your funds faster than you can say "NOT A CHANCE."

A better alternative would be to use the funds raised to launch an awareness campaign. However, your audience is extremely limited.

The things that we notice are not the things that average guests ever will notice or care about when pointed out.

This needs to be from the ground up. Explain to the average guest why, and try to turn them. You won't get many. In the grand scheme of things, Disney is a luxury, and in the current economy, this will not be perceived positively. This is up there with "my Rolex doesn't gleam in the light" or "my Mercedes S Class is hard to parallel park" as far as relating to the public goes.

 

[mkt]

This is right on target. I also agree that Wordpress is the CMS of choice (I am a copy editor/writer now, but before moving into that role full time, I was also a project manager, primarily for website projects. We build about 75% of our sites on Wordpress).

I believe that a blog is essential here. Static pages are great, but when people are interested and engaged, posts will be shared on social media (and anyone involved or interested could set up an automatic feed of posts to their Twitter or Facebook fees). This keeps the site in front of people, keeps it fresh and constantly updated, and opens up the conversation. In order to get any eyes of importance on this site, a very strong social media presence is essential, and at the heart of a social media presence is a blog.

Wordpress is much more versatile that people think. Aside from the obvious News/Magazine sites that one would think it adapts for, I've done auction, classified, and even a Radio Station website on the platform. Friends of mine have even set up a public Wifi login page using it.

I try to stick to Wordpress for my web projects first, and then a custom made CMS designed by friends of mine for anything else. I nearly ripped my hair out when I was forced to work with Drupal.

For a project like this, it is essential to keep the social networks going. Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, and Youtube are the best for this- maybe even Foursquare/Gowalla listing bad things to shame Disney into doing things. However, you're going to need to flat out buy ad-space across the web, and send out press releases when the site launches, to hopefully get some free press.

 

[WDW Monorail]

In our beautiful capitalistic nation, the ONLY way to voice an opinion is with your wallet.
If you really are not happy with something, do not go. If you feel that your vacation is worth more than a certain aspect which you think is wrong, then you have zero right to open your mouth.
All you have to do is close your wallet, it's that simple.

But I will keep mine open.

 

[mkt]

In our beautiful capitalistic nation, the ONLY way to voice an opinion is with your wallet.
If you really are not happy with something, do not go. If you feel that your vacation is worth more than a certain aspect which you think is wrong, then you have zero right to open your mouth.
All you have to do is close your wallet, it's that simple.

But I will keep mine open.

Or you can open your wallet elsewhere.

Or you can open your wallet to tell an audience how you feel.

In this beautiful capitalistic nation, you can do more with your wallet than just close it. All that matters is how much you have in it to start with.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

In our beautiful capitalistic nation, the ONLY way to voice an opinion is with your wallet.
If you really are not happy with something, do not go. If you feel that your vacation is worth more than a certain aspect which you think is wrong, then you have zero right to open your mouth.
All you have to do is close your wallet, it's that simple.

But I will keep mine open.

Your logic is not without some merit, but also extremely inherently flawed (not to mention close-minded and unnecessarily aggressive). What you're trying to say is the equivalent of saying a film critic has no right to go see a movie if he/she is going to find flaws in it. Or that i as a regular viewer can't both enjoy a film but also have criticism about it. You're commanding that people either forgo their entertainment completely or pretend it's perfect when it isn't. People have every right to critique something but still enjoy and pay for it. Especially when this "beautiful capitalistic nation" also has another trait- free speech (at least in the US if that's what you're referring to). People can say whatever they like, whether they choose to open their wallet or not. You would be wise to remember that if you're going to try to educate people on how the US works.:hammer:

As it is, the wallet CAN be a powerful tool, IF tens of thousands of people actually unite and used it. But that's not likely to happen regardless without a voice explaining what reasons they may or may not want to keep their wallet closed. But the wallet isn't the sole weapon. Disney also doesn't enjoy having bad press about them, because that voice is the thing that could inevitably lead to more people using their wallet as a weapon. Especially if enough mainstream media sources get ahold of such information (like what happened with Disneyland).

Beats me why some people are so aggressive and angry about constructive criticism and feel the need to butt in and say people don't have a right to express themselves. You'd think people would be supportive of something that at least wants to TRY to push for a better experience. Success or not, it's worth talking about and fighting for.

 

[Tom]

The only recommendation I can think to make is to remember that Disney is a business and they should be addressed as such. At the end of the day they aren't really going to care what Walt would have done. What they are going to care about is bad press and issues that will affect their bottom line.

Also, I think you need to be very protective of the content and not let the website get hijacked by some of the more "passionate" members of the fan base. The last thing I think would be productive would be quasi-offensive cliches and over used buzzwords. If either of those show up I would think that Disney would be more apt to dismiss the webpage as just another fan boy's whine, rather than a logical critique of the shortcomings of their current business model.

Agreed 100%

Any Lutz-type initiative for WDW has to be visible to these guests, who won't be looking for this type of information without a compelling prompt to make them do so. Since gathering substantive content for the website won't be an issue, the leaders of this project should focus right away on getting the site noticed outside of the traditional fan community sources. Perhaps you can find some way get the website to come up as one of the top results on typical WDW-related Google search when there is enough content on the site. At that point, you would have the attention of newspapers, which could be used to make the mission more relevant to the mainstream.

I would also suggest making sure the website is highly visible to current and prospective DVC members. They would be none too pleased with a decline in show quality after entering a long-term agreement.

Good points. Once it has legitimate content, and looks better than the crap I threw together last night, it needs to be viral.

Make sure there's one person who's editing and responsible for what actually shows up on the blog.

Perhaps not just ONE, but a select few will moderate what actually ends up on the web.

I'll at least try to provide some pictures and details whenever i make my way up to Orlando. Wonder how many dirty and weird looks from cast members i'll get when i take out my Android and snap a shot of peeling paint though.

In my opinion, we need a better interface than just one page listing the broken effects and issues with all the attractions. Each attraction and land deserves its own dedicated page to aspire for more detail without cluttering up a single page that goes on forever. Apart from the main feed that would update new breakages (or fixings), the sidebar should be made in a way that has a list of the Parks and general areas in WDW. I'd like to see a tree of basic general locations (the individual parks being centerpiece). The tree can expand and collapse in real time, showing subcategories within the general locations. And have subcategories when you click on each park with the lands or areas INSIDE each park. And then further subcategories within the lands showing specific links to pages for the actual attractions or places. That's my best idea on how the interface should work.

Yes, it needs to be FAR more than the stupid google blog I setup in 10 minutes last night. I'd never used theirs (I've run a Wordpress blog, installed on my own server), and thought it would be a better product than it is. Time to move on quickly. I own the domain, so I can point it anywhere.

I really think we need a lot of photo documentation on the site. Not only documenting the problems but really focusing on the improvements when they are made. Maybe 3 types of photos, one before the issue, one of the issue and one of the fix. That way there is some incentive to not only fix the problem, but inprove on what was once there.

There are open apps out there, mostly php, for photo albums. Maybe that becomes a part of the site. I agree though that photos are key.

Tom....did you get all of that???? I sense many sleepness nights in your near future as you figure out how to build that! :lol: :wave:

I think the first thing we need to do as Tom and I have discussed is get the blog portion up and running so we can start sharing articles as we build out the effects watch section for each area of the parks.

It's great to see people like Martin and Kevin on board with this. With Kevin being published and having a huge following with his books and the Disneyland fan base, we're definitely going to need people like him to give this initiative some steam. With Martin's help (if he's willing to put in some time...though something tells me he already has this going for personal use ) someone with his in depth knowledge of the attractions and parks in general will be vital in helping us capture an initial list of missing effects...because I'm going to be honest here, I've only been a diehard fan for the past 5 1/2 years and I'm too young to talk about "what used to be" without the insight of people like Martin.

We are definitely going to need an army of photographers, locals and non, who are willing to take pictures of these things like Merlin suggested. This initiative is going to be dead in the water without pictures!

It's going to be a tiresome near future. I think we need to migrate to a better platform before we get too far along now. Lots of good advice on here so far.

I think Disney is looking to hire some new CM's............ :lookaroun

I'd love to work for WDW in the quality assurance department. I'd spend day and night walking the parks and resorts, making lists of things that needed repairs or replacements (and then having my lists thrown away because there's no budget).

This pretty much sums it up. If someone wants to do this and is OK with devoting the time to it then more power to them. My main point is that this approach has been tried before at WDW with no tangible results. Maybe it is time to come up with a different approach.

At least I'm going into this with NO preconceived notion that it will make an ounce of difference. All I (and others) hope is that someone notices. Maybe it will get attention, and maybe because it's supposed to stay POSITIVE, Disney will catch wind of it.

I hope this does not become a bash site..... some people may take it that way... becareful on what you post.

If it does, I'm done.

Sorry about that. I own the domains now, so rather than park them on a placeholder page, I have them forwarding to my own blog.

Anyway, a combination of factors killed the site- the server died, and at the time we were all irresponsible kids and failed to do a backup. We couldn't get the site back, and we just kinda moved on.

The thing about Disney is, you can not pressure them to do anything unless they will make more money by doing it. They don't give a rats ______ about the fans like us- they aim for the fans that don't care how they do it. Once I learned that lesson, I really stopped giving a damn.

Now, if you want to start a site, more power to you. I'll forward the domains to your site once you're done.

Excellent points. Sorry about the server loss. I have a few sites hosted on Rackspace Cloud, and I keep a nearly live backup on my home server.

I'd go with Wordpress that starts on a static page as opposed to the blog, and a well picked (and modified) theme.

I'm starting to think this is the way to go. I don't want to pay for hosting quite yet, so if I can get the domain to point to a Wordpress subdomain, that should work.

I have zero talent for this kind of thing, but it seems the best way to do it would be multiple colums. The first column being the "effect". The second column being "status". Third column being "Since". I could see the "status" column being a checkmark option of "working" or "not working". If working was checked, the whole row for the effect would turn green. If "not working" was checked, the whole row for the effect would turn red.

That would show, in an easily viewable, color coded way, a quick snapshot of what worked and what didn't.

And maybe the column for "since" has a date format to it.

Maybe it could be user edited, like wikipedia.

Good ideas...until the wiki part :lol: User-editing is bad, since moderation would be a nightmare. In the blink of an eye, it will become a bashing and site. It needs to be constructive, informative, and also full of praise when things are righted.

one design for the logo, it is not done, just wanted to see what people thought before i moved forward.
i was going to put a paint brush in one ear and a hammer in the other, with Fix the magic in the banner on the bottom
* PLEASE comment on the colors and what can be improved,
i know i need to sharpen it up though

Can't use any Disney copyrighted properties. Mouse ears are strictly out. A knock-off castle might be OK, but not Cindy's. In fact, I'm probably crossing the line by using the "Walt" font in the header I have up there now...but I was just playing around last night.

Have you looked into Wordpress at all? The basics of it is free, and much easier to use than the Google blogger.. plus you're able to have more than just the main blog page. For instance, you could create a page for each park and have links to the various pages for what needs work?

I've only run Wordpress on my own server, and only as a standalone Blog. I've never used their hosting, or added pages. If someone is skilled at it, I'd like to add them to the team. I can code sites and even build a vBulletin suite, but these "pre-built" things always get the better of me.

Problems.

#1- It's too busy. Way too busy. It should have no more than 2-3 colors, and be simple enough that it looks right no matter how big or small it looks.

#2- Trademarks. Use that, and expect to get sued by Disney. They own the Mickey Silhouette and Castle you've depicted.

Yup.

You have to be really careful with the site. I've seen a few of these over the years, and typically they end up just being so negative that they self-destruct. Eventually it becomes no fun listing problem after problem, and reading about them, and seeing nothing fixed. Disney will address issues on their timetable, very little will change that.

You're exactly right, Steve. The minute this thing goes negative, I'm done. I believe that the only time a message has a chance of getting across is when it's positive - even when it's about a negative subject. Criticism is taken far better when it's delivered in a constructive, humble, tactful and helpful manner. Praise is also equally appreciated. Anytime I contact any customer service entity with a complaint, I ALWAYS throw in praise about something along with it. That's MY intent for this site anyway.

How would you summarize the purpose of the site?

In a few words: to possibly get someone to notice. To get results? No. That would be nice, but as you mentioned, a silly fan site isn't going to make Disney cough up maintenance dollars all of a sudden. But if the site can be made to look professional, "news-y", and as impartial as possible, there's a sliver of a chance that someone might take a glance.

The pipe dream would be that it would end up getting press and bring some things to light, thus resulting in a tiny bit of reaction from WDW. Maybe a few fixed animatronics, or a new coat of paint once in a while. I'm not holding my breath though.

These are the two most important posts of this thread. If you want this to be taken seriously the information needs to be presented in a reasonable way. If you're going to condemn Disney for broken effects, you should make an equally grand exclamation when an effect is fixed. Limiting the # of posters on the blog is one way to do this. I would also recommend tracking refurbishments in the same way as it's far easier to be positive about a refurbishment then something fixed on third shift.

The problem that I see is the potential for tampering. If I don't know who is providing these updates I'm hesitant to include their information on the site. The issue then becomes a balance between how long it takes to cross check a broken effect and getting the information on the web as soon as possible.

I agree with everything you said. Content needs to be moderated, filtered and posted carefully. Nobody should be able to use it for their personal soapbox or to start pointing fingers at people. No names. No blame. No libel. No blasphemy. Just facts. I would almost liken it to a news site. "HERE IS WHAT'S WRONG. IT'S STILL WRONG. NOW IT'S FIXED!" Mixed with editorials from reputable sources, who have been mentioned in these threads already.

I'd request a full analysis.

Summary of Purpose, Target Audience (both sociographic and demographic factors), SWOT Diagram with emphasis on competition, financials (Who's gonna pay to keep it online? Will it generate revenue, and if so, how and how much?), contributors, post schedules, proposed branding (colors, logo, and typefaces at a minimum), proposed site map, and staff backups (who gets whose back).

At the end of the day, there's only one way to go about this- the right way. Anything less, and you may as well fold. You can't be high and mighty about a company known for quality, and not be a quality product yourself.

Yup. Once it gets serious, all of this ^^^. For now, I just need help making a site engine that's useful :lol:

Wordpress is much more versatile that people think. Aside from the obvious News/Magazine sites that one would think it adapts for, I've done auction, classified, and even a Radio Station website on the platform. Friends of mine have even set up a public Wifi login page using it.

I try to stick to Wordpress for my web projects first, and then a custom made CMS designed by friends of mine for anything else. I nearly ripped my hair out when I was forced to work with Drupal.

For a project like this, it is essential to keep the social networks going. Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, and Youtube are the best for this- maybe even Foursquare/Gowalla listing bad things to shame Disney into doing things. However, you're going to need to flat out buy ad-space across the web, and send out press releases when the site launches, to hopefully get some free press.

Had no idea about Wordpress being so versatile. I will need to investigate. It almost sounds like the new vBulletin 4.0 suite would be ideal, but none of us are going to cough up $400 for it. It has a CMS front-end, and the forum, and a blog module. The membership could be set to where EVERYONE wanting to join is moderated, and even then, prevented from having posting rights.

I use CMS Made Simple on the sites I build. It's free and extremely handy for building template-based sites. Also has an assortment of plug-ins and add-ons.

 

[mkt]

Yup. Once it gets serious, all of this ^^^. For now, I just need help making a site engine that's useful :lol:

Are you kidding? These are the same questions I ask anyone on a first consultation- before a single line of code as been written or a single color has been picked.

Those answers are what guide you through the creation process. You can change them if you need to, but you can't start without having those basics written down somewhere.

 

[Tom]

Are you kidding? These are the same questions I ask anyone on a first consultation- before a single line of code as been written or a single color has been picked.

Those answers are what guide you through the creation process. You can change them if you need to, but you can't start without having those basics written down somewhere.

You're right. And I do all that for the sites I build for people, and for myself. This was a kneejerk reaction and everything was done on impulse.

It's now time to step back, assess the situation, and choose a path.

 

[wedway71]

One thing to remember here folks......

WE HOLD DISNEY TO A HIGHER STANDARD......BECAUSE DISNEY HOLDS ITSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD.

 

[Krack]

You're exactly right, Steve. The minute this thing goes negative, I'm done. I believe that the only time a message has a chance of getting across is when it's positive - even when it's about a negative subject. ... That's MY intent for this site anyway.

While I support your project 100%, I fail to see how you can expect to accomplish anything without becoming negative. The purpose of the site is negative; the only reason everyone is supportive of the idea is that they are unhappy.

Changes were made at Disneyland in large part because of Lutz's campaign; frankly, he embarrassed and shamed DL management like a one man wrecking crew. He didn't hesitate to point fingers. And it got results.

I guess what I'm saying is ... how do you put a positive spin on WDW electing to leave a black tarp up on BTMR for months instead of spending $200 (if that) to making the fix look like it belongs as part of the theming?

 

[devoy1701]

We definitely don't need to write up a full business plan at this point. This isn't a business venture, we're not looking to generate income, and there isn't a market to analyze with competition unless you consider the Disney Social Media Machine. Most of the other stuff you mentioned we're already talking over. But a SWOT analysis really?

As Tom said we're taking a step back at this moment to re-evaluate the approach. But full front on attack is not in the cards at this moment. We need to get established, we need to get a following, and we need to attract the kind of person/people who have the knowledge to help with that should we take it to that point.

Tom. I still think a wiki on the effects watch is a great idea for participation at least. As long as it's limited to what can be updated and has a strict format (ie: what effect, what's wrong with it, when did you notice it, etc) there won't be too much of an issue. I think this would be huge to help drive traffic.

And we're ok using the Waltograph font. It's not copywrited and most of the fonts available on the internet have slight variations in them anyway. Someone did mention though that we might want a name change to something slightly more positive...

so much to think about!

 

[misterID]

Jakeman had some good points.

...That hurt...

It can't be a flame war. And TDO aren't the ones you want to reach, it's Burbank.

 

[jakeman]

I guess what I'm saying is ... how do you put a positive spin on WDW electing to leave a black tarp up on BTMR for months instead of spending $200 (if that) to making the fix look like it belongs as part of the theming?

You let the fact that it's been that way for x amount of time speak for itself to the visitors to the site.

Your statement in and of itself is the wrong approach (just an example, nothing personal). You simply don't know it would only cost $200 to fix. If the power that be were to look at the blog and see that written, especially if there is something wrong that you are unaware of, you come across as petty.

Simply saying:

Expedition: Everest

Effect:
Yeti Arm

Time down:
4 years, 3 months, 15 days

Should have enough of an impact.

As Tom said we're taking a step back at this moment to re-evaluate the approach. But full front on attack is not in the cards at this moment. We need to get established, we need to get a following, and we need to attract the kind of person/people who have the knowledge to help with that should we take it to that point.

It's going to be a long slog to do it right, but I think the rewards would be much greater than flash in the pan antagonism.

 

[Krack]

Your statement in and of itself is the wrong approach (just an example, nothing personal). You simply don't know it would only cost $200 to fix.

I know that for $200, a trip to an arts and crafts store, and 2 hours after park closing ... I could fix it 100x better than that tarp.

 

[jmick71]

Can't use any Disney copyrighted properties. Mouse ears are strictly out. A knock-off castle might be OK, but not Cindy's. In fact, I'm probably crossing the line by using the "Walt" font in the header I have up there now...but I was just playing around last night.

Yes i know, almost done with a sketch of another variation,

 

[brucie]

And TDO aren't the ones you want to reach, it's Burbank.


Bingo!!!

I think this is a neat idea, no harm in trying. Anyone know anyone friendly at the Sentinel that would be interested in providing some media coverage.

 

[jakeman]

I know that for $200, a trip to an arts and crafts store, and 2 hours after park closing ... I could fix it 100x better than that tarp.

Perhaps, but how is that statement in anyway constructive?

How is a park level executive going to look at that statement and not dismiss it as "just another angry internet fan boy"? How is the average guest not going to look at that statement the same way?

To affect change in a business, you must hit the business where they care. PR and the pocketbook.

From a PR standpoint it is much harder to argue with simple statements of fact (Rock work missing from Big Thunder for 7 month 2 days) than standard internet hyperbole (I could fix that with three popsicle sticks and some gum).

From a pocketbook standpoint, it's making the website as accessible as possible to the general public. Again, I would think the best way to do that would be to steer away from internet hyperbole.

Bottom line is antagonistic has been tried and wasn't very effective, so why not take the harder road of moderate, calculated criticism?

I like the idea of a simple effects watch being the backbone of the site. Just think if the site could be an add-on to Lines or Touring Plans where traffic for people planning vacation can see what they are missing as they go through the parks.

The possibilities are pretty great with this if done correctly, why marginalize it with unnecessary opinion and exaggeration?