Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[luv]

Living Seas - don't like the Nemo ride, but have never cared much about any of it. I get my sea stuff at Sea World.

Disney TV - never saw Phineas and Ferb, but know my nephews really liked it a bunch. Did see one episode of Good Luck, Charlie, one with kids who lived in a hotel and one with a girl who has a video blog or something. Horrible, mindless, poorly-written crap!! Why Disney has chosen to talk down to kids instead of giving them quality shows to watch, I don't know. Now that theyre older, I put in an episode of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer and they love it. There is TV I can sink my teeth into.

Martin makes really good videos.

Don't like the new SSE.

 

[Figments Friend]

Not to sound douchy, but what the hell does a giant fish tank have to do with the future to begin with? Nemo or no Nemo...

The original concept for the Seas Pavillion what much more futuristic in theme and content.
The entire experience at that Pavillion was a journey to a underwater research facility, 'SeaBase Alpha', which was a attempt to simulate a possibly undersea habitat for humanity. The early concept art shows this off rather well.
It was more mature in it's presentation, and dare i say even presented some neat sci-fi elements ( the Hydrolaters, for example ).
It was much more focused on science and how the seas could be our next frontier.

Unfortunately when Nemo and his famous fishy friends moved in that more advanced and thought provoking concept was mellowed out to the point where now it just gives the appearance and impression of being yet another local 'aquarium'.
Experiencing the Pavillion today, it is no surprise why someone would question what it now has to do with the future.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the future in it's currant state...and that is why many fans are not overly thrilled with the Nemo overlay.
'Invasion' is a term often used.

Yes, the Seas Pavillion was becoming a little stale...and Guest visitations were down. Disney's quick fix answer was to stick a popular somewhat-related-since-they-are-sea creatures IP in there and wa-lah: The Seas with Nemo & Friends.

The original Seas was elegant, insightful, and inspiring.
From a design standpoint, it was stunning and quite a immersive environment ( no pun intented ).
There are still some of those elements left, but you have to look beyond the colorful kiddie-fication of the Pavillion to find it.

 

[Nemo14]

It was more mature in it's presentation

The original Seas was elegant, insightful, and inspiring.
From a design standpoint, it was stunning and quite a immersive environment ( no pun intented ).
There are still some of those elements left, but you have to look beyond the colorful kiddie-fication of the Pavillion to find it.

Well said! And sadly, this applies to pretty much all of Future World today.

 

[Figments Friend]

Well said! And sadly, this applies to pretty much all of Future World today.

Thanks.
Agree with you there regarding Future World...but things are looking up.

I liked the futuristic elements that were added to the updated Test Track.
That was one Pavillion refrub/redo that actually brought back the futuristic feel and forward thinking spirit of the EPCOT of yore, in my opinion.

Here is hoping the Imagination Pavillion gets a similar re-do...and brings it to a level where it can actually be a imaginative experience again.

 

[DDuckFan130]

Just to make myself clear...the ride at Living Seas was the ONLY thing that I found lame or boring at EPCOT Center. The rest was absolutely fascinating to me. Well, with the obvious exception of the original World of Energy. So I guess it was the first two attraction on either side of the perimeter that were a little lacking for me at the time.

Gotcha. Different strokes for different folks. Just wasn't our thing *shrug*

 

[Figments Friend]

Of all the original Epcot rides, Imagination 1.0 I think held up the best from a future proof perspective. I still watch Martin's tribute of it and there's really not much there that needed massive updating to remain relevant to today. Just a good solid refurb and general update to clean it up, install new cutting edge lighting effects and more expressive animatronic figures, and some other miscellaneous technical improvements (obviously take the time to install new tech that can smooth out the issues the rotating theater has always had) but it certainly didn't need to be gutted (nor should it have been especially considering the complete and utter filth that replaced it). I'd argue none of the classic Epcot rides deserved a complete gutting and reworking in the manner they got, but Imagination 1.0 was in need of the least work to get it up to date.

Which made it*s destruction and removal all the more tragic.
The Original JII attraction was timeless. TIMELESS.

One of the greatest Disney dark rides ever made...right up there in classic terms with Mansion and Pirates in my opinion.

Your points are valid, and i agree that the only real *updating* it would have needed would have mostly been tech-related.
The projection elements would naturally be converted to digital video now, show lighting would likely be switched over to LED elements, and AAs would have been likely upgraded as well.
The laser effects in the *Performing Arts* segment may have been replaced with holograms or some other modern effect.
So from a tech standpoint, yes, changes would have needed to happen to keep it going.

The show scenes themselves, as is, did not need to change.
They were fine as-is.
Oh sure, a little *plussing* would be a nice addition and i am sure if the attraction was still there today we would have seen some.
But in general, i feel that most of the scenes were able to remain intact.

This is why the rumored refurb/redo of the Pavillion needs to avoid becoming yet another victim of *synergy-mania*.

Keep franchises and currantly popular IPs OUT of the Imagination Pavillion.
This will only *date* it ...much like other attractions we are well aware of ( UoE )....and within a short time it will be considered outdated.

Keep it timeless...and keep the synergy crap OUT OF IT.

 

[Figments Friend]

Almost exactly my thoughts. I've always told family and friends that Space Ship Earth was EPCOT's mind, Imagination was EPCOT's heart, and Horizons was EPCOT's soul.

What we've been left with is a brain that only really has one lobe, a heart that now needs a quadruple bypass, and a lost soul.

-
Great way of putting it.

I salute you, Admiral.

 

[Figments Friend]

Haunted Mansion's 2007 refurb was really, really good. Better audio, the Escher staircase room, new attic, floating Leota, and other minor enhancements. Respects the original and improves the ride dramatically.



The new Test Track is a vast improvement over the original, as I see it. I have only seen videos of World of Motion, but I'd probably prefer it. I get the whole thrill rides thing, but WoM looks like an excellent dark ride that might well be just a step behind Haunted Mansion or Pirates.

Both would be ideal, but if I had to take one, World of Motion.

Agree. All refurbs should be as nice as the Mansion one. It really balanced having respect for the original, but *plussed* it in modern ways that did not take away from what made the original such a fan favorite.

Also agree regarding the new version of Test Track. It is indeed a big improvement from a theme standpoint.

I rode the original World of Motion many times back in the day. It was one of my fave EPCOT attractions.
It was pretty spectacular in it*s varied scope...and the injected humor in the many scenes was quite entertaining.

At the time, it was Disney*s largest AA heavy attraction...and i believe it still holds the record today for the most AA figures in any single attraction in their history. I think it was well over 170 figures...which included animals and humans.

Many of the show scenes were pretty impressive. Intricate details, hidden gems, and every time you rode you found new things to look at and enjoy. It was great....

 

[Figments Friend]

I realize we should be talking about Journey into Imagination. The SSE and Test Track 2.0 record from WDW gives me hope for Imagination 4.0. The Living Seas abomination and the desire to shoehorn Disney IP into EPCOT (Ellen, Jeopardy, Nemo, Donald Duck) scares me.

Was it reported a few years ago that Tony Baxter was hired to re-develop Imagination a couple years ago? Did we see that reported somewhere? I honestly can't remember if that was real, in my imagination, or reported by a less then reliable source... I realize he is gone now...

I have hope too.
The updated TT seemed to show WDI was trying to recapture the futuristic and forward thinking feel of Classic EPCOT, in my opinion. I like the new TT a lot. Much better in theme then the previous waste of space.
SSE...well, the decent needs work. Still waiting on that one.


Regarding the rumor about Tony wanting to re-work the Imagination attraction...yes, this was being talked about back in 2007. It was rumored in some circles that he and John Lasseter had major plans in the works for the Pavillion but things stalled for some reason. My guess is that if this was indeed on the slate, they were not able to get the budget they wanted to do it right approved.
There have been SO many rumors swirling for years about the Imagination ride being on the table for refurb/redo i have lost count of them all.
But yeah, you are remembering that rumor from a few years back.

Post-Cars Land i would like to think that the chances are better now for a decent budget.
I would like to think so....
We can only but wonder if those rumored Tony plans are still a concept option for the re-do.

I really wish he could have still been onboard to see the Pavillion get a proper overhaul.
It would have been a nice way to close out his career, and likely a personal fullfillment for him or at least a real personal satisfaction to finally *fix* what was once one of his crowning achievements.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Of all the original Epcot rides, Imagination 1.0 I think held up the best from a future proof perspective. I still watch Martin's tribute of it and there's really not much there that needed massive updating to remain relevant to today. Just a good solid refurb and general update to clean it up, install new cutting edge lighting effects and more expressive animatronic figures, and some other miscellaneous technical improvements (obviously take the time to install new tech that can smooth out the issues the rotating theater has always had) but it certainly didn't need to be gutted (nor should it have been especially considering the complete and utter filth that replaced it). I'd argue none of the classic Epcot rides deserved a complete gutting and reworking in the manner they got, but Imagination 1.0 was in need of the least work to get it up to date.

Spaceship Earth's 1994 rehab was fantastic and is a prime example of how to update an attraction to make it superior to the original. I can't even think of any other Disney rides that have received such a wonderful and respectful overhaul, it's a rare and virtually unheard of exception to the norm. An effort I wish they had put into all the Future World collection of rides instead of gutting and replacing them with the crap we've got now.

And yes I do call it a crappy mess they pulled. Nothing will ever convince me that Test Track is anywhere close to World of Motion, Mission SPACE is anywhere close to Horizons, Imagination 2 and 3 are anywhere close to 1.0 and etc etc.


Agreed. I won't claim Horizons didn't need updating or anything. But what it got was the last thing it needed to me. In my opinion, it needed a good long reworking like SSE's '94 overhaul. Definitely not a gutting or a replacement with a space simulator (aka glorified spinner).

If Spaceship Earth was the brain of EPCOT, i'd probably call Horizons the heart. Imagination being abstract thought that worked with the rest of them. Each pavilion kind of felt like a vital organ in its own way. Important, entertaining and insightful looks at ourselves and the universe around us. And similar to what would happen to the body, doing what they did to EPCOT literally feels like the heart, mind and creativity of the place was just ripped out and lost.

Excellent analysis! I agree 100%!

 

[JenniferS]

Yes, but then there is "Stupid Judy". Where would we be without that little gem? Actually, I love that part...Stupid Judy!

On the annoyance scale - "Stupid Judy" ranks right up there with "Ask the Phoenicians".

 

[montyz81]

On the annoyance scale - "Stupid Judy" ranks right up there with "Ask the Phoenicians".

I'd put just about anything on imagination into this category

 

[Goofyernmost]

On the annoyance scale - "Stupid Judy" ranks right up there with "Ask the Phoenicians".

Them's fighten words, ma'am! Stupid Phoenicians!

 

[Admiral01]

Why was SSE'94 the best version? I can't remember back that far.

It took the good things from the Cronkite version, and plussed it. The Jeremy Irons narration, soundtrack/score, and the scenes in the descent were, IMO, all just exactly what the ride needed. It was beautiful, and left you wanting more - in a good way. You walked off the ride feeling like you had just experienced something amazing. While I did miss Tomorrow's Child, the plussed descent was so good that the missing song didn't affect the experience. Version 3 was a different feel from version 2. It was deeper, more meaningful, and wonderfully executed.

I'm not an expert on what went into the refurb. I was 13 at the time when Jeremy Irons beautiful narration began gracing our beloved geodesic sphere. I remember it had a profound effect on me, a sense of world community that World Showcase furthered throughout the day at EPCOT - an sense that I still take into my life each day here in Washington. Listening to the recording of SSE'94 still gives me goosebumps. I last rode in October 1999. College took up the following years, and then early professional life (when I was broke). I didn't make it back to EPCOT until October 2008, and by that time it was too late to experience SSE'94. The SSE'07 refurb was quite good, but what we lost is sorely missed, the narration is lacking, and the score just doesn't have the same sort of grandiose feeling that the predecessor had. The descent really ruins any feeling of awe and wonder you may get during the ascent. It was a neat idea, but seems like lazy Imagineering after a repeat ride. It is cute, but not amazing. I still love SSE, but I miss SSE'94.

I'm done being dramatic.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Yeah I have nothing against Tomorrow's Child at all, but the 94 version's music was just superb. The descent sequence in particular sent chills down my spine with the music and the city of light (still does). Narration was wonderfully epic but also soothing and reassuring (surprised at how perfect Jeremy Irons' was in the role).

They really outdid themselves on the descent sequence, one of the best. It took a basically empty and dark corridor with nothing in it and turned it into something visually stunning, uplifting and with music that evoked powerful and hopeful emotion. Remember forever-


Now we've reverted to a completely empty descent sequence. One made even more painful by the lack of good music along with a very dumb attempt at recreating the Jetsons in Adobe Flash that clashes horribly with the rest of the ride...

By the way, there are way too few fiber optic effects in new rides, just wanted to remind people that fiber optic lighting effects still look as stunning as ever.

 

[aladdin2007]

Yeah I have nothing against Tomorrow's Child at all, but the 94 version's music was just superb. The descent sequence in particular sent chills down my spine with the music and the city of light (still does). Narration was wonderfully epic but also soothing and reassuring (surprised at how perfect Jeremy Irons' was in the role).

They really outdid themselves on the descent sequence, one of the best. It took a basically empty and dark corridor with nothing in it and turned it into something visually stunning, uplifting and with music that evoked powerful and hopeful emotion. Remember forever-


Now we've reverted to a completely empty descent sequence. One made even more painful by the lack of good music along with a very dumb attempt at recreating the Jetsons in Adobe Flash that clashes horribly with the rest of the ride...

By the way, there are way too few fiber optic effects in new rides, just wanted to remind people that fiber optic lighting effects still look as stunning as ever.

Agree, and Disney seems to be taking out anything to do with them and or lights in general,,,we all know whats on the list. But its amazing that Siemens being a company that deals with such things yet it was all ripped out. Someone was really being stupid Judy in 07 lol. Now look what we got, a ride through a crappy air duct. Anyone been sneezing through there?

 

[Horizons78]

On the annoyance scale - "Stupid Judy" ranks right up there with "Ask the Phoenicians".

So, you're saying you won't be thanking the Phoenicians then? Not even a card in the mail?

 

[StarWarsGirl]

So, you're saying you won't be thanking the Phoenicians then? Not even a card in the mail?

Now that's funny

 

[JenniferS]

Them's fighten words, ma'am! Stupid Phoenicians!

Unless you're talking to Judge Milian or Judge Judy - you will never go wrong calling a ma'am "Miss" instead.
We looooove Miss. Ma'am, not so much.
Make a note.

 

[JenniferS]

So, you're saying you won't be thanking the Phoenicians then? Not even a card in the mail?

Nope, not even a card in the mail - although, thanks to them, I know my A, B, C's.