Two coasts: One very different world

[njDizFan]

Nothing. It's always been just another spinner (at least to people that have their wits intact). In our family we've gone on Dumbo far fewer times than Alladin or Astro. I know it ruined the look and feel of Adventureland but I'd much rather go on the Carpets. I can get on quicker, the ride vehicle is larger so the 5 of us can get on one carpet together, and I actually like the view/feel over AL better than Dumbo's old site. Sure you can have a magical view of the castle with fireworks going off, but what are the odds of timing that? Plus, I'd rather ride BTM while the fireworks are going off (a very cool experience).

Well Disney certainly thinks it's not just another spinner(personally I prefer Aladdin also), they gear quite a bit of marketing around it's image and felt it was so popular that they should double it's capacity.

 

[flynnibus]

Simply, you think the Dumbo situation is ok? You have no problem with it operating in its current condition?

Do I think the situation is ok? No - ideally it should have never happened. But I also don't know why this occurred now vs in testing. I can only speculate.
Do I think it's operating safely now? Based on what we know, yes I do.

What am I against? MISINFORMATION and exaggeration. You take my attack on misinformation as defending Dumbo and Disney - that's not true. What I am attacking is people of jumping to conclusions, exaggeration, and misinformation which cloud anyone from actually knowing the truth. It doesn't matter which side the information benefits - if it's crap I'll call it out.

 

[wannab@dis]

As opposed to smart Alec, add-nothing remarks, right?

So how've you been? I did ask if you've been okay with your 3-4-5 year absence?

Your post added something? I'm fine with my absence... seemed like a good time to start posting again and try to bring some sanity. Plus, it's nice to see there are others willing to do so also. There needs to be a balance.

A moving ride is constantly grinding against tiled pavement. Perhaps if you studied third-grade science you'd know that constant exposure to forces something isn't designed to interact with can cause problems over time. Scraped paint today can mean stress fractures in the future. Also, people seem to forget or not realize that paint is ALSO used to protect against the elements. It's used to protect wood from rotting due to rain exposure and to prevent rusting on fibreglass and steel. Do you honestly think that overtime this can't affect safety?

I do not disagree that it MAY become an issue. However, what you (and others) seem to miss is that the attraction is still operating. That means the people that are actually knowledgeable about the situation have determined it will be fine to wait to make the necessary modifications (probably until the other spinner is up and running). If there was an immediate cause of concern, they would close it and make the changes. It's in their best interest to not have an issue cause a lawsuit. Personally I trust their capabilities a lot more than a forum poster.

That's enough time to start a life style site, then realize the jig may be up shortly. Did you see the IP lawsuit they filed against the ticket resellers? The first of many I hope.

Nah, sorry... got more to do than build a website / social network simply for a hobby.

 

[marni1971]

Your post added something? I'm fine with my absence... seemed like a good time to start posting again and try to bring some sanity. Plus, it's nice to see there are others willing to do so also. There needs to be a balance.

My post didn't really add anything. I was just trying to be friendly.

Your sanity isn't really needed but feel free to join in again. There are new members around here now who attempt to balance things, as you say.

But anyway, it's so nice to see you back.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

You sir, have soild my cake, and a chocolate one to boot. This act cannot be forgiven. You should have known to use a Figment topper instead.

 

[Jim Handy]

For what it is worth, back on topic about two coasts one very different world, I just read another post (on another website) from someone I know here in CA who has some connections to "insiders" at DLR. She has heard that the big wigs from DVC are coming west soon, and are telling the west coast DVC guides that they will really like the new 5 year plan.
I've read here that DLR is slated to get some more projects for DL, and wondered if any have heard more details?

DVC is a really small part of what's to come in Disneyland. That resort will be even more impressive in just a few short years. The brilliance of WDI will be further exposed.

 

[Fe Maiden]

Well Disney certainly thinks it's not just another spinner(personally I prefer Aladdin also), they gear quite a bit of marketing around it's image and felt it was so popular that they should double it's capacity.

I'm not denying it's iconic status or popularity, I've always been fascinated why it's been that way.

A few years back we were planning a trip with my parents and the one goal my dad had was to go on Dumbo with his grandkids just like he did with me in the 70's. That was most important to him (but like others who HAVE to ride Dumbo, he was nuts).

 

[njDizFan]

I'm not denying it's iconic status or popularity, I've always been fascinated why it's been that way.

A few years back we were planning a trip with my parents and the one goal my dad had was to go on Dumbo with his grandkids just like he did with me in the 70's. That was most important to him (but like others who HAVE to ride Dumbo, he was nuts).

Yes, I see your point and agree. For some it has become a rite of passage. You go to the MK walk to Fantasyland and have a spin on Dumbo with your kids, all very nostalgic and heartwarming...

But as a company that thrives on nostalgia and such, it's departure from the center of the magic is mildly interesting...

The question is did the imagineers consider this or was that not part of the equation?

 

[lebeau]

You sir, have soild my cake, and a chocolate one to boot. This act cannot be forgiven. You should have known to use a Figment topper instead.

Better?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Better?

....................You're just lucky I like Figment.

 

[Alektronic]

I will give you my experience with new projects at WDW. Most of the work is done by outside contractors and WDI or FAM supposedly supervises the work being done. When the ride is nearly operational, then Ride and Show Engineering does an ATP (Acceptance Test Procedure) to make sure the ride is safe to operate. They check all the different types of E-Stops, Ride Stops, Station Stops, Power Disconnects, gate interlocks, etc.

There is usually a punch list of things that need to be corrected, somethings are obvious and some are not, some show up after a couple of days. Usually, once the ride is safe to operate, the Operations management wants to run the ride right away even though there are problems to fix. Once the Operations dept accepts the ride, then it is up to the Maintenance dept (Attractions Engineering Services) to maintain the ride.

There are 2 different types of E-Stops, Automatic and Manual, Automatic e-stops happen when the ride computers detect a problem and Manual E-Stops happen when the Ride Operator pushes the E-Stop button because they notice a safety problem (usually guest related)

 

[Buried20KLeague]

But it's NOT e-stopping multiple times a day - this is another abuse of the information out there. There isn't anything out there to even say it EVER e-stopped due to this. That was people saying 'what about the children??' if this caused an e-stop.. not based in any history of it actually e-stopping due to this. This is the rumor mill gone bad.

The cause of the rubbing itself appears to already have been temporarily mitigated - and what we see are the dumbos will their scrapped knees and the plumbing of the dumbo reportedly contaminated.

To be clear about my posts on the E-stop... My posts were to explain what an e-stop is and what it does and how it impacts riders... I have no idea if it actually happened or not, and I was pretty clear to say that.

 

[Mike K]

In regards to Al Lutz' article today, the biggest thing of interest of course was talk of the third gate option that is currently being explored. As long as California Adventure's attendance rates maintain over the next year, the third gate seems like it'll be receiving a green light. While I'm not surprised that the plan is to base it on Marvel properties, I am still having hard time wracking my brain around it. On one hand, I'm happy that Disney is continuing to turn there investment of Marvel into more for the company but the idea of an entire park dedicated to Marvel characters seems like a tad bit of overkill to me. Although, since the intent, according to the article is to provide more thrill rides and energetic shows aimed at teens and adults, this shows me that this is Disney's true response to Harry Potter and it has all the potential to exceed Potter's popularity. I am very open minded to this concept and anxiously look forward to see how Disney is going to sail this ship. I just hope that while the overall theme of the park will be Marvel based that there will be room for other traditional Disney franchises to get the thrill ride treatment here.

 

[flynnibus]

To be clear about my posts on the E-stop... My posts were to explain what an e-stop is and what it does and how it impacts riders... I have no idea if it actually happened or not, and I was pretty clear to say that.

You did just add information - but it was misused by others.. very much like the opening info itself.

'this is dangerous'
'how'
'because it is going to tear itself up'
'no its not, you don't even know if its still happening'
'they obviously did this on the cheap'
'making mistakes has little to do with how much you spent'
'you think its safe to run running into solid objects?'
'you don't even know if it rubbed a lot or just a fraction'
its dangerous because running into solid objects could cause an estop'
'you don't even know if its still happening or what kind of impact it is'
'estops can be dangerous to riders'
'they shouldn't run it because it could cause an estop'
'running into things will tear the attraction apart making it unsafe'
'estops are by design, happen all the time and they don't tear the attraction apart. The forces involved in an estop are going to be far greater than that caused by rubbing that scrapes paint. Its obvious they know about the issue and have deemed it acceptable to run'
'they shouldn't be running it if its estopping multiple times a day'
'there isn't any reports this has even caused an estop period'

All along shards of information have been used to jump to new conclusions that aren't based on anything. All to question the company's judgement and behaviors because they are predisposed to do so.. rather than draw conclusions from the information actually available. Failure to distinguish between 'known' and 'what ifs' and lumping 'it could happen' into 'it is happening!'.

All of these posts should be moved to the dumbo thread anyways...

 

[Kiff]

In regards to Al Lutz' article today, the biggest thing of interest of course was talk of the third gate option that is currently being explored. As long as California Adventure's attendance rates maintain over the next year, the third gate seems like it'll be receiving a green light. While I'm not surprised that the plan is to base it on Marvel properties, I am still having hard time wracking my brain around it. On one hand, I'm happy that Disney is continuing to turn there investment of Marvel into more for the company but the idea of an entire park dedicated to Marvel characters seems like a tad bit of overkill to me. Although, since the intent, according to the article is to provide more thrill rides and energetic shows aimed at teens and adults, this shows me that this is Disney's true response to Harry Potter and it has all the potential to exceed Potter's popularity. I am very open minded to this concept and anxiously look forward to see how Disney is going to sail this ship. I just hope that while the overall theme of the park will be Marvel based that there will be room for other traditional Disney franchises to get the thrill ride treatment here.

Saw that article as well. I love that DL is seeing some serious expansion. That said, I'm less sure a Marvel park is the right direction. It brings to mind the old Walt quote "You're dead if you aim only for kids". Seems like it may apply in the other direction as well....

 

[Mike K]

Saw that article as well. I love that DL is seeing some serious expansion. That said, I'm less sure a Marvel park is the right direction. It brings to mind the old Walt quote "You're dead if you aim only for kids". Seems like it may apply in the other direction as well....

You do make an interesting point but considering Disney has never attempted a park that is more catered to the thrill seekers, I think this could be a very interesting although costly experiment. You have to hand it to Disney though, if this is there answer to Universal and those who claim Disney doesn't provide enough thrill rides and attractions targeted with teens/adults in mind, this is a pretty bold response to that. Honestly, if a full on Marvel park were to exist, since Orlando is out of the question, I can't imagine a better place than Anaheim taking the first stab at it. I'm really curious to see how all this unfolds over the next year. Who knows? By creating a park with one demographic more in mind than others this could even do more wonders than California Adventure is doing for them now. Anything is possible.

 

[GLaDOS]

Saw that article as well. I love that DL is seeing some serious expansion. That said, I'm less sure a Marvel park is the right direction. It brings to mind the old Walt quote "You're dead if you aim only for kids". Seems like it may apply in the other direction as well....

Considering Avengers was a four quadrant hit (meaning all ages/sexes), I don't think they have to worry about it only appealing to the older sect.

 

[Kiff]

Considering Avengers was a four quadrant hit (meaning all ages/sexes), I don't think they have to worry about it only appealing to the older sect.

Avengers may be doing very well across the board but I think a Marvel park based on thrill rides may have a tough time appealing to young families (especially young females).

Of course Disney would be well aware of this. Perhaps catering to a certain demographic may be a new strategy like Mike suggested. Personally I would love to see Marvel become a significant portion of a new park, but not the entire theme of a park. Maybe a park based on Adventure in general... just not California based adventure in particular

 

[Tom]

Simply, you think the Dumbo situation is ok? You have no problem with it operating in its current condition?

I know you weren't asking me, but I'm going to answer anyway.

The Dumbo situation is NOT ok...but I have no problem with it operating in its current condition. The scrapes on Dumbo's knees aren't structural. It's scraped paint and a thin layer of fiberglass. They just opened an attraction that is in high demand, and has received recent (mini) publicity. Closing it to do a massive fix would just be egg on their face (moreso than there already is).

It sounds like they've already fixed the problem in the pits themselves...or they're working on it. Once that's resolved, they can simply re-make the Dumbos in Central Shops and swap out a few each night after closing.

OR, they can close down one entire spinner, take all the elephants to shop, repair them, and bring them back...all while the ride is half closed, right after opening.

Is it ugly? Yes. Did someone mess up? Yes. Are the parents and kiddies having awful Dumbo rides because of it? No. They're not judging it like we are. It needs to be fixed, but they can do so in a manner that impacts guests in a very minor way.

And no, nobody is going to fly off to their death because of a scraped knee.

I will give you my experience with new projects at WDW. Most of the work is done by outside contractors and WDI or FAM supposedly supervises the work being done. When the ride is nearly operational, then Ride and Show Engineering does an ATP (Acceptance Test Procedure) to make sure the ride is safe to operate. They check all the different types of E-Stops, Ride Stops, Station Stops, Power Disconnects, gate interlocks, etc.

There is usually a punch list of things that need to be corrected, somethings are obvious and some are not, some show up after a couple of days. Usually, once the ride is safe to operate, the Operations management wants to run the ride right away even though there are problems to fix. Once the Operations dept accepts the ride, then it is up to the Maintenance dept (Attractions Engineering Services) to maintain the ride.

There are 2 different types of E-Stops, Automatic and Manual, Automatic e-stops happen when the ride computers detect a problem and Manual E-Stops happen when the Ride Operator pushes the E-Stop button because they notice a safety problem (usually guest related)

Thank you for this insight. Pretty much what I figured, but I didn't know who all the specific groups were that were involved.

The one step I don't like is that they soft open while they're still punching the project. I wish they would just bite the bullet, fix all punch items, and actually open the ride when it's ready to open. Then they don't look so stupid when things like this happen. Opening a ride 2 weeks earlier than it should isn't putting a penny more in the bank account. Just wait and open it correctly...once.

 

[GLaDOS]

Avengers may be doing very well across the board but I think a Marvel park based on thrill rides may have a tough time appealing to young families (especially young females).

Of course Disney would be well aware of this. Perhaps catering to a certain demographic may be a new strategy like Mike suggested. Personally I would love to see Marvel become a significant portion of a new park, but not the entire theme of a park. Maybe a park based on Adventure in general... just not California based adventure in particular

I'd guess the "all thrill ride" approach is speculation. No way would Disney do that, especially with the amount of kids that love Marvel.