Two coasts: One very different world

[Clever Name]

I agree 100% that it should have not reached this point. How would they not have noticed this during testing and start-up? Or did the entire spinner become out of balance once loaded with guests?

I'm still wondering why the supposed e-stops are happening. You e-stop a ride when something goes wrong DURING the ride. Is it because guests are lowering their vehicles all the way and they're scraping DURING the ride cycle? That's all I can figure.

I would guess exceptionally fat people have something to do with the problem. WDW does not have water dummies that are heavy enough to simulate really fat guests. It was only once the attraction went live that super heavy guests gave the ride the real test it needed.

 

[GoofGoof]

Quantity of posts and length of time as a member aren't relevant if a member is providing quality posts. There are just so many new members all of a sudden, and many of them are just here to argue or voice opinions based on minimal experience with the subject matter. Not everyone...just many.

Everything is relative, including the state of the WDW theme parks. Sure, relative to a couple years ago, the MK is looking pretty spiffy with the new Main Street and Frontierland facades, a couple new kiddie rides in Toon Town v4.0, and the new FLE that's about to be unveiled. But when you compare it to what it was like in the mid-90s, it's depressing.

And that goes for the other parks too. In a 10 year span, they added two theme parks, and added rides and attractions to those parks. As someone else stated, in the last 10 years we've gotten a few attractions, with EE being the most elaborate (and it's broken).

Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when someone comes into a thread that was started by someone who has been visiting WDW since the 70s, and tries to argue points based on only having taken trips since the late 90s or early 2000s, there's just no point.

I was mostly just kidding about the number of posts. I hope to make a decent contribution to the discussion, but I have no issue with someone calling me out if I am talking out of my a$$ and have no clue what I am rambling on about. I am relatively new to this board but I have been going to WDW since my first trip in the mid eighties. I can't really compare my childhood trip to now since everything was soooooo amazing and really overwhelming for me as a kid. A real dream come true. I have been coming since the mid nineties as an adult. I can honestly say I don't see the huge drop in quality since then. I miss pleasure island and I hate the magic your way passes (the old ones from the nineties included water parks, park hopping and PI in one ticket). I get what you are saying about not having a whole lot of new attractions in the last 10 years. That is a fact. I am hoping that FLE and Avatarland help with that. I am hoping the success of DCA now will help to green light more spending at DHS and maybe Epcot. I personally think Casey Jr and the parts of fantasyland that are open are really well done. The theming is great and the quality is there in my opinion. I know we disagree on that (at least on Casey Jr). I am open to people being critical but I can't understand the comparison to six flags or a McDonalds play land. I openly admit to being an addict of the pixie dust so I may look the other way on minor issues like scrapes and scratches and light bulbs out.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

You'll be accepted when you only post from their approved list of talking points.

Funny how that goes both ways.

 

[WDW1974]

Everyone with an opposing view missed your point in the OP

This tends to be a problem, maybe I shouldn't be suing the Reagan Library for use of the term 'The Great Communicator'!

I really can't figure out why that is, except an emotional response without first really thinking about what it is that I am talking about. Especially with Disney there will also always be BRAND advocates, people who believe they need to shout down anyone who speaks non-MAGICally about The Mouse, his services and products ...

 

[WDW1974]

And this folks, is coming from the guy who says people from Disney forums are trying to kill him.

Caveat Emptor.


Jimmy Thick- Couldn't help it.

I never said people were trying to kill me. I did say that I have received threats based on people not liking what I have written.

Some folks take Disney like a religion or political affiliation and absolutely don't want to hear an opposing view ... now, please don't break my nose and laugh your way around World Showcase after!!!

 

[GoofGoof]

I would guess exceptionally fat people have something to do with the problem. WDW does not have water dummies that are heavy enough to simulate really fat guests. It was only once the attraction went live that super heavy guests gave the ride the real test it needed.

I swear I didn't even ride dumbo last weekend!!!! I did ride Big Thunder though so if they start having problems there you may be on to something...

 

[GoofGoof]

I never said people were trying to kill me. I did say that I have received threats based on people not liking what I have written.

Some folks take Disney like a religion or political affiliation and absolutely don't want to hear an opposing view ... now, please don't break my nose and laugh your way around World Showcase after!!!

That is really sad. I am new to this so I guess I better watch what I post. People take this way too seriously.

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for calling my post absurd. This is exactly why I posted in the first place. There was no need to attack me for just offering my opinion.

And you again proved my point about people not understanding posting on a discussion board.
I didn't attack you. I said nothing about you at all. I said your point/post was absurd. I believe that to be the case. It doesn't mean I think you should be placed in front of a firing squad!

I did NOT say that the entire forum should be divided like that. I just suggested that maybe there should be a section where people could go where they could post without having to worry that their thread would be turned into a negative commentary.

That's all.

You know, I sometimes like reading your commentary because I do not consider myself incapable of criticizing Disney. On the contrary, I see plenty that I wish would change. But I find that your insightful commentary can sometimes be diminished by your rudeness.

I find it ironic that you would suggest that I am juvenile.

That's a vacuum ... that's an echo chamber ... that's what Twitter and Facebook are for. You can talk all day with people who are there simply to reinforce your world (or World) views. The greatest thing I could say about this site is that we don't all agree on ANYTHING (even those of us who agree on many things often disagree ...) except that we love Disney and theme parks. I often wonder how folks who can't debate/discuss things rationally here actually function in the world.

And I'm sorry if you perceive me to be rude, I don't think I am ... most of the time ... and I certainly wasn't rude to you at all.

 

[WDW1974]

WHOA! Whoa...whoa...whoa...whoa...

When did we start referring to the FantasyLand Expansion as NFE?

WE didn't ... I guess some folks think this slight expansion makes the whole land new.

That isn't true. This isn't DL in 1983-84.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

lol. mousemerf is insane. You all know this. He just took a picture (probably without permission) from Sam/OrlandoParksNews and jumped to 18,000 conclusions about children flying off Dumbo into the Casey Jr. Water and Pee Zone because the elephants (might be) scraping the edges of the concrete. He hasn't even seen it himself.

Yes, you're right. Thank you for reporting this!

 

[WDW1974]

Not to defend anyone on here calling anyone else names or using derogatory comments....but a lot of us WDWmagic veterans are a tiny bit on edge recently, given that there has been a massive influx of new members, conveniently at the same time that K-12 schools let out for the summer.

There is a lot of freshly juvenile posting on here, and it comes across as trolling due to the lack of experience and knowledge these new members possess. All they're doing is getting under the skin of those of us who not only have been discussing these topics in depth for months (or years), but who have also experienced the pre-2000 WDW.

As WDW1974, and others, have indicated, people who were not exposed to Walt Disney World before 1995 honestly do not know what the rest of us are whining about....and we can't reasonably expect you to understand.

It's something I take into consideration when reading many of the posts made by "youth" - but when someone 18 or under tries to argue over the current state of WDW with those of us who visited the parks in the 70s, 80s or 90s....the argument should stop, because the younger generation can't possibly understand where we're coming from.

Exactly, Tom.

I also don't want to sound like I don't feel like young people aren't entitled to their opinions either. But I am not going to have a teen tell me WDW has never been better unless he/she is saying they like the 2012 version more than the 2007 version (no, there really is almost no difference) and has reasons to back up that view.

I wouldn't presume to give flying tips to Sully ... I wouldn't presume to understand how the body works like Dr. Oz (or a real doc!) ... I wouldn't presume to tell Paul McCartney how to sing (Lee can do that!) etc...

Age brings a lot of bad stuff, but it brings just as much good ... experience and perspective are not wasted on the young.

Just like I'll be the first to admit I have little knowledge of today's music and would never be able to use an iPhone like a teen.

 

[bubbles1812]

Yes, they did need a second Dumbo spinner.

NEED.

It is a Walt original that amazingly still draws huge lines 57 years later. It's an iconic attraction, right up there with Space Mountain, that visually symbolizes a Disney park, appearing in nearly TV commercial, brochure, and promotional spot.

Unfortunately, due to its iconic popularity, wait time often exceeds an hour. And by its nature, it's biggest fans are toddlers and kids who aren't tall enough to enjoy many other iconic Disney attractions yet.

Hour waits + Florida heat/humidity + kids = uncomfortable kids, parents, and others standing in line beside them. (Name one other attraction that has such a miserable queue with such long waits for such a short, kid-friendly ride?)

Disney NEEDED to increase the capacity and make the queue more comfortable.

They've already added extra arms to the spinner decades ago. They simply couldn't jam any more on, or create 4-person cars.

They only way to increase capacity was to double Dumbo. That alone should cut a 60 minute wait down to 30.

Then they built an indoor queue to make that 30 minutes more pleasant. Then, rather than filling it with switchbacks, they gave kids a place to run around so they werent climbing on the rails and bumping into people waiting ahead of them (which even the best behaved kids with responsible parents will do during a fun day at a sweltering theme park)

Doubling Dumbo had the added benefit of requiring it to be re-located, allowing them to create a more logical and well-designed layout of FL.

The "cheap" option would have been to leave Dumbo exactly where it was, exactly how it was. That would have been darn cheap. Free.

But they spent money to improve a classic that visitors clearly want to ride.

Should money have been allocated differently for other FLE projects? That's obviously up for debate.

But Doubling Dumbo and adding a kid-friendly indoor queue is a no-brainer.

You missed every point I was trying to make in my post...it was not actually about Dumbo.

 

[WDW1974]

I think with this sentence you actually touched upon what for me is the biggest problem of the new Dumbo: it used to be an iconic attraction also because of its location in nearly the centre of Fantasyland. One of the big landmarks you saw just after entering the land. And it had views of nearly all of Fantasyland and the castle.

The new location took away a lot of this. I haven't seen and experienced it in person yet, but to me it seems that it might have more capacity, but also less draw now.

Hey, someone is 'borrowing' a complaint that I have made!

Flying Dumbo behind the castle in the courtyard (often with fireworks going off) is an iconic Disney moment. I have only ridden once in the last decade ... at 12:57 on a 1 a.m. close night last year. But part of what makes it special is where it is located. Dumbo isn't exactly one of the most beloved Disney characters (I know a CM who would hit me for saying that, good thing she ain't reading!) ... You take Dumbo from his iconic perch and stick him at the very back of the park, on top of a kiddie coaster with exposed (leave a delay here for all the horrors looks from the fanboi brigade) track and the loud Grand Prix Raceway cars. You stick a large green unthemed show building next to it ... and you add a second spinner and interactive queue. I do wonder if it will keep its popularity or if people will start treating it like the Flying Carpets.

I have already ridden the 'new' spinner and the views really are lousy versus what they were before.

 

[WDW1974]

People are defending a poorly built spinner. I've seen it all now.

Hey, don't EVER say that around here ... one thing I learned a long time ago was you never have seen it all ...

 

[bubbles1812]

Well, that was some fun for a few pages... the doom and gloomers find a some scraped paint, the pack rallies and moves in howling about the dying children and proof that TDO is evil, just evil.

What a pack a buffoons.

From what I've read (catching up after being gone all day), no one is saying TDO is evil in all this. Heck, I wouldn't even blame them...they aren't the ones who designed and built the ride. That's on the Imagineers. While I don't think scraped paint is a safety hazard, it clearly points to something bigger going on with the ride. The ride is not supposed to be losing paint to the pavement. I don't know rides so I don't know if it really does point to a huge safety hazard but I'd certainly be wary of it as the ride is not functioning how its supposed to...that is the key. Do I actually think this indicates children will go flying off or whatever some were posting? No, I think that is a pretty gigantic leap to take but again, it is not functioning how its supposed to...unless you really think paint being scrapped off is what they had in mind. I don't think it was even about cheapness in this case...they just built it poorly..end of story.

 

[WDW1974]

Well, that was some fun for a few pages... the doom and gloomers find a some scraped paint, the pack rallies and moves in howling about the dying children and proof that TDO is evil, just evil.

What a pack a buffoons.

Who exactly is a buffoon?

And who said anything about dying children? I've read a lot of posts about Dumbo clearly not being manufactured or installed correctly (I can't say who's at fault ... one contractor, multiple, the lead Imagineer, all of the above) and folks discussing what is wrong and why it may have happened. But someone/someones obviously screwed up bigtime. It doesn't prove that TDO is evil ... just adds to the stacks of evidence that they are largely incompetent because no matter who actually is at fault, there was clearly not enough supervision to make sure things went smoothly.

 

[WDW1974]

Yes... Need. On an operational standpoint. And on that level, I think they did a wonderful job. The new area looks nice.

But... is this the best that Disney can do? Bring us fixes to large, broken (albeit, in this case, popular) park problems? Is Disney's next best thing really a fancy spinner?

The point of this is giving praise where it is due and holding Disney to their highest possible standard. New Dumbo is nice. Can't fault it.

But I can fault Disney for not going beyond this and adding more and fixing more. No, I don't think that FLE is anything in lieu of that. It is just one big, good looking, fix.

Anyone who is overly impressed (or perhaps impressed at all) with what Disney is doing in the MK, should go take a look at pics and video from Anaheim, Hong Kong and Tokyo and see what they have going for them this summer, while y'all get your pick of Dumbo spinners (unless one gets shutdown for an extended time to fix this shoddy work) to ride.

 

[WDW1974]

Just out of curiosity how many posts do i need before I qualify as a veteran and my opinions start to count? I see your point that someone who was not alive in the good old days can not possibly compare then to now, but that doesn't mean they aren't entitled to an opinion. On both sides there have been many off topic and generally hostile posts. I am having a hard time even figuring out what is being talked about.

That's really the best way to approach these boards. Talk about whatever interests you and see if anyone else cares. It's what I do. ... Unless there's something BIG going on at WDW, which there almost never is.

And everyone (trolls excluded) should feel that their opinions count. Now, I don't believe (and most folks would agree) that all opinions are created equally.

But just because you weren't alive in the 70s (I'm really hoping you were at least born in the 80s ... I got some personal issues with those born post 1990!) doesn't mean you don't have a place here or the right to be heard.

Now, what were we talking about ... a tragic Dumbo accident (one of the elephants 'relieved' himself on top of a family of four from Ohio!)?

 

[WDW1974]

That is really sad. I am new to this so I guess I better watch what I post. People take this way too seriously.

It has actually gotten much better now ... it really used to be anything goes (and I am talking the old newsgroup days, not here as I've only been on this site since 2008 and often have left for months at a time).

The thing is I tend to write very provocative type posts (when I am being serious) to get people's attention and get people to think/debate/argue/talk etc. But I am not writing from an emotional place ... and some people only see WDW emotionally (that's where the whole Pixie Dust addiction thing comes from) and can't rationally discuss it or see its faults (that's where the religion and politics comparisons come in) so they want to lash out.

There are also people who are part of the whole Disney Lifestyler brigade that has money riding on how Disney views them and what they peddle, so they'll often lash out either here or behind the scenes.

But there are some great folks here ... people I know in the real world that are truly spectacular human beings too. So, it all balances out!

And the Casey Jr. Fountain still sucks and still has no place in the MK!

 

[kaelynj1s]

It has actually gotten much better now ... it really used to be anything goes (and I am talking the old newsgroup days, not here as I've only been on this site since 2008 and often have left for months at a time).

The thing is I tend to write very provocative type posts (when I am being serious) to get people's attention and get people to think/debate/argue/talk etc. But I am not writing from an emotional place ... and some people only see WDW emotionally (that's where the whole Pixie Dust addiction thing comes from) and can't rationally discuss it or see its faults (that's where the religion and politics comparisons come in) so they want to lash out.

There are also people who are part of the whole Disney Lifestyler brigade that has money ridiing on how Disney views them and what they peddle, so they'll often lash out either here or behind the scenes.

But there are some great folks here ... people I know in the real world that are truly spectacular human beings too. So, it all balances out!

And the Casey Jr. Fountain still sucks and still has no place in the MK!

WOW! Thanks for explaining the whole pixie dust snorters phrase!! I've always wondered what that meant

And I was born in 1988. Barely made the cut!