Two coasts: One very different world

ellie-badge

ellie-badge

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
I would hate to see this locked, just so I'd have to start a second thread to have the same discussion (why didn't I just turn the computer off after the game???!!)

The issue is people coming in for the sole purpose of derailing the discussion ... and I'd like to think the mods can see that (if any are awake at this hour) and deal with it.

No one is forcing them to post here. I didn't join Jimmywhateverhisnameis's thread suggesting that anyone with issues with WDW should just not go (you know, the old 'America, love it or leave it' line of BS because I knew whatever I added would be gas on a fire. But that's exactly what a few folks opted to do here.
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I would be disappointed to see this thread locked as well, but unfortunately I think locking this thread and starting anew would be more feasible (you could always just copy and paste your original post, and I could do the same with my lengthy and unfortunately ill-timed post from earlier, as I really am eager to jump into these sorts of discussions).

The other option would be to just ignore everybody's bickering completely while we wait for a mod to arrive, and hopefully they'd get bored of picking on each other and leave to argue elsewhere, preferably by private messaging... Is that feature even still available? I'm afraid I haven't been on the forums for quite some time.
 
bubbles1812

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
wannab@dis said:
Every reply I have made to you has been respectful and factual.
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If you took that as me being rude, I'm sorry, and apologize. But my above post answered your question and I was pointing you to it. I'm not exactly sure what facts you were using though. You misread/misunderstood completely the meaning of the original post you replied to. I'm not stupid enough to think that an attraction, a full on attraction, could go into the small plot of land that is Casey's. But my point still stands that rather than put in a place that will serve generic food that can be food throughout the park, and generic merchandise that can be found throughout the park, they could have done so much more with the area. They could have put in say a circus themed water ride that anyone could have ridden and everyone could have fun getting wet. Or they could have made an actual big top, one large tent, into which they put a show of some kind that was circus themed. Either of those would have wowed me. Would have wowed a lot of people. I would have been able to say that is the standard I expect of Disney. Instead they put in generic crap that wasn't really needed (there are plenty of other places to buy quick service and get merchandise) and a little splash zone.

The potential was there and the amount of land needed was there to do something really great and instead they chose the cheapest option they could, as is their sadly typical pattern.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
I just had to respond to this ... because I just got back from a late lunch at Wendy's (no one offered me salmon in creamy truffle sauce while I was there, either).

You fundamentally miss the point if you believe I believe that many of these offerings (such as TSMM) are not popular. I don't care. You know who else didn't care? Old Dead Guy Walt. You know who else didn't care? The folks who ran Disney in the 70s, 80s and well into the 90s.

They succeeded precisely because they didn't ask people what they wanted; they gave them what they didn't even know they wanted or was possible.

I well understand that many of WDW's guest fit into the Walmart demo. And the type who would prefer to eat at Wendy's (although they probably would have taken the lettuce and tomato off the chicken sandwich and never would have added pickles and onions to it!) than a fine dining establishment. But I don't care. And I sure as (blank) don't care that many guests prefer low quality offerings because they are simpler. Because I know that if Disney exceeds my expectations (or even meets them) that the vast majority of guests are also going to enjoy the products, even if they had no clue such things were possible.
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To anyone that has criticized WDW1974 for being negative, this post exemplifies the greater point that he, and everyone else seeking a better Tomorrow Tomorrow want. Disney should listen fans, in as much as they shouldn't actually listen to their suggestions. They should be listening to the overarching point - we want more quality. We don't know what it is that we want, we want you to tell us what it is and deliver.

WDW1974 said:
And I could have sworn you were on a honeymoon in Alaska. I know I am strange, but I were on either a honeymoon or in Alaska (let alone both) I wouldn't be spending time discussing WDW with a bunch of crazies online!
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Just got back from 8 hours in Denali National Park. The highlight wasn't the sleeping Grizzly Bear and her two cubs, but when a German lady who sounded like Natasha Fatale (of Boris and Natasha fame) shouted, "IT IS MOOSE!"

WDW1974 said:
Oh, I dare ... c'mon, don't you REALLY want to have those hourly traffic updates from the hot babe who can barely speak in complete sentences?
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Remind me to send you a clip of Adam Carolla ripping on morning drive guys, it's absolutely hilarious.

flynnibus said:
That is a short term fad that will bite you in the a$# later.

Know why Facebook works well for you? Notification and placement... Facebook notifications are even more 'alive' than email these days. Sure forums can email you, but the little red '1' on your facebook app or page is too tempting people can't overlook it and must click. The more real-time the conversation, the more lively it will tend to be.

Placement is significant because it puts your 'stories' right in what is the Portal for most people now and where they spend the most time.. Facebook.

But this is actually bad for you long term. Why?

- You don't control the content.. it can be heavily modified on you at any time
- Search is almost non-existant..
- Its FB's site.. not yours. You'll never get a foundation where you can drive traffic to YOUR site and monetize yourself
- There is almost zero historical stuff that is easily managed. The content scrolls down and its impossible for users to get back to it later. It's all buried in FB's servers - but entirely inaccessible to the average being

So while FB may work for the 'right here, right now' - its not a sustainable platform that will serve you long term for discussions or content that have relevance longer than 12-24hrs.

That's why FB's current platform is not a real threat to discussion forums as a principle.

The notification element is a bit why you see the feature like you see in this forum with alerts... but placement in people's #1 time waster (Facebook) is hard to beat.
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You're absolutely right. Unfortunately right now it's a means to an end. People are on facebook more than they were ever on our old forums or our actual site. Podcasts are a different vehicle too in that you can access that content without actually showing up on the page thanks to iTunes. The reason why WDWMagic works is because not only are the forums very strong and very active, but Steve also has posts and updates on a daily basis. As does Ricky, as do the TouringPlans guys and Orlando Attractions magazine. At this point in my life I don't have time to do that so when we break info on our site nobody sees it for 3 days. That's our problem, because these types of things are few and far between. We don't have enough content for daily updates and I can see the traffic to our site dropping significantly after Sunday's podcast.

It's the nature of what we're doing, it's expected. Having said all that, our facebook page allows us to interact with our fans, typically on topics that either can't be discussed here or won't be discussed in the same format. Yes things get buried, and yes that's unfortunate. But it happens to be where people are congregating right now.


ellie-badge said:
I think we should all step back for a minute and keep in mind that Magic Kingdom is the most attended theme park in the entire world, and has been for many years now. While I completely agree that there should be more things that are new, exciting, and of high quality at the world, specifically Magic Kingdom, Disney unfortunately does not share the same opinion regarding the situation. From Disney's point of view, they have little reason to put so much money into improving something that has been working just fine for many, many years. In other words, why try to fix what isn't yet broken?
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I won't quote your entire post, but the response is to all of it. There seems to be a misconception at Disney that their Orlando theme parks are a mature market that can't see any significant growth from year to year. While it's incredibly unlikely without a significant (DCA level) investment that 30% Potter names happen to the Florida parks, investments in quality will show that better growth is definitely possible. Quality sells, it's what got Disney to where it is now, and somewhere along the lines this was forgotten.
 
Skip

Skip

Well-Known Member
You know, just so I can... In before the lock...

For what it's worth; IMO Lee/74 are in the right here as they often are... Anyone else trying to support JustChillingBro's delivery (note -- not message, delivery) seem to be very misguided.

Bullsforthewin/Crockett, you can't be banned for an idea, but you can be banned for how you choose to inappropriately express it... Or, you know, circumventing a previous ban. See you again in a couple weeks!
 
L

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Not to throw the discussion off track, but is it really necessary to have soaking wet children running around theme parks?
I think not, and feel that such areas have no place in any Disney park.

But that's just me...
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My feelings also. It belongs at a resort, not a park, unless it is one of the water parks. The one in Tomorrowland at DLR was removed after , I think, one season.
 
ellie-badge

ellie-badge

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
I won't quote your entire post, but the response is to all of it. There seems to be a misconception at Disney that their Orlando theme parks are a mature market that can't see any significant growth from year to year. While it's incredibly unlikely without a significant (DCA level) investment that 30% Potter names happen to the Florida parks, investments in quality will show that better growth is definitely possible. Quality sells, it's what got Disney to where it is now, and somewhere along the lines this was forgotten.
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I show no disagreement with you whatsoever, as you are very much correct. Disney has unfortunately taken the popularity of their Orlando parks for granted, and as such has lost sight of updating and refurbishing all of their parks just as often as Disneyland's. As I have made clear in my previous post, I wish that Disney would keep up with the world's quality as often as the land's, but I am grateful for what we will be receiving in the next few years at Magic Kingdom. I have no doubt in my mind that everything with be just as we've hoped for and more when the expansion and re-theming is finally completed.
 
Cosmic Commando

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Maybe the middle ground is to mourn what we didn't get more and denigrate what we did get less. Who/what should we be mad at... Storybook Circus? Or TDO?

Even by WDI standards, Storybook Circus couldn't have cost much. Re-skin the old tents, Donald's Boat is now Casey Jr., the old TTF playground is now inside a tent and is the Dumbo queue, another Dumbo spinner and repaint the old one (shouldn't we be doing that anyway?), along with some bathrooms and a proper train station 20 years after the fact.

It seems silly to get worked up about SBC either in the positive or the negative... it's basically TTF with fancy pavement that ops will probably rip out when WDI isn't looking.

Is SBC really what's standing in the way of whatever attractions were cut from the $800M New Fantasyland? It isn't the money and it isn't the space: we have "the blessing of size". There's plenty more expansion or underutilized space in the MK.
 
ellie-badge

ellie-badge

Well-Known Member
I realize that this is slightly off topic... but what does TDO stand for? I've always been able to grasp every other acronym somebody throws at me or others in a forum, but this one is stumping me! o_O
 
S

ScarForKing

New Member
Buried20KLeague said:
Yep.
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Sorry, at this point I am really not interested in the "wetness" of guests in the park or the trolling or who is nice and who is mean...it seems like there is some information here that is trying to work its way to the surface. Are you implying that a major media outlet is going to start putting some pressure on Disney to fix the yeti? Either everyone else here knows what is implied and I am completely in the dark or this is getting lost in the crazy.
 
asianway

asianway

Well-Known Member
bubbles1812 said:
Team Disney Orlando... don't worry, I had trouble with that one too when I first joined. :)
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Yes, but its more than just the building, its the mentality that Meg, Al and the rest of their ilk have ingrained in the entire management team across property, whether they be in TDO, locally at the parks, or Spirits favorite, Celebration Place...
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Not to throw the discussion off track, but is it really necessary to have soaking wet children running around theme parks?
I think not, and feel that such areas have no place in any Disney park.

But that's just me...
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I'd say I agree, except as a kid I would get soaked in the jumping fountains outside of Imagination.
WDW1974 said:
There isn't even a real D-Ticket, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Other parks can add major attractions every few years, but the alleged No. 1 in the world hasn't had a major addition in two decades -- and that attraction is literally falling apart.

Yet, folks will justify it.

What kind of psyche does it take to do so (I ask as someone seriously thinking of writing a book on Mental Health and the Disney Fan Community: How Pixie Dust Destroys Minds!)? I would think the natural role of a fan IS to be critical and demanding and ALWAYS want the best. Yet WDW fans are, by and large, a lethargic group that sits back and just mindlessly accepts whatever substandard product is tossed their way, along with the requisite price increases. Then, almost unbelievably, they turn around and defend the company that is giving them the white glove treatment. I will never get that mindset.
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For a while, the mindset was that WDW guests only come back every 3.75 years so they only need to add a major addition ever 3.75 years. I look at this as a chicken vs. the egg scenario. Add in the fact that they’re being a lot looser in what they classify as a major addition now (lately it’s been replacements or enhancements in the case of TSMM and ST2.0) and it’s fairly easy to see why they’re losing market share.
 

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