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News Tomorrowland love

MansionButler84

Well-Known Member
Although I disagree about the nasty brown mountain, you’re right about the “self-referential and ludicrously expensive designs.”

This IS on topic, and I realize it might not be a popular opinion. Please bear with me.

I love the theme parks and much of the company’s creative output, but the Internet has fed an unhealthy obsession with Disney lifestyling; and it feels too slick now that the company has picked it up too.

When fans held their own Dapper Days and created their own DisneyBound outfits, those felt like genuine, nostalgic nods to the parks and their history.

Fast forward a few years, and the company itself produces countless special edition ears and dresses; WDI designs Insta-ready photo opps (including the stupid Purple Wall); and merch puts out an entire line of purple clothing and purple cupcakes to capitalize on the Purple Wall obsession. They’ve taken cute fan initiatives and turned them into cash grabs.

Now to tie this together: Tomorrowland is being renovated to look like the 1960s. I like the aesthetic, but why not do something new? Why are our two choices retro or steampunk? Why couldn’t the MK’s 1994 sci-fi vision get updated, especially since in the late ‘90s, it was second only to Paris? Is it a weird form of self-worship, a return to a past that represents the established Brand instead of continuing to innovate? It reminds me of the topiaries Disney plans to permanently install at the Epcot entrance. Don’t they realize SSE and Epcot itself are already just as “Disney” as a Donald Duck topiary?

When we long-time fans decry the lower standards at the parks, or when we talk about how great Horizons, Journey into Imagination, and Alien Encounter were, we’re asking for a return to high creative standards and storytelling. We’re not asking to seal WDW in a time capsule.

And the TL updates feel like a fan-service time capsule rather than a vision of the future. It’s a weird, self-feeding cycle of nostalgia instead of Tomorrow.
Well, we mitch and boan every time they try anything new or different, too. They can’t freakin change a dessert or drop a park from three places serving burgers to JUST TWO without us having a hissy fit. Nostalgia has become an albatross around WDW’s neck. Anytime they suggest changing ANYTHING, we flip. Remember when they went from chicken fingers to chicken nuggets?

That said, if they ever get rid of that peanut butter pie at Contempo, I’ll lose my schnitzel. And they damn well better keep my Tower of Terror a permanent time capsule.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
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Well, we mitch and boan every time they try anything new or different, too. They can’t freakin change a dessert or drop a park from three places serving burgers to JUST TWO without us having a hissy fit. Nostalgia has become an albatross around WDW’s neck. Anytime they suggest changing ANYTHING, we flip. Remember when they went from chicken fingers to chicken nuggets?

That said, if they ever get rid of that peanut butter pie at Contempo, I’ll lose my schnitzel. And they damn well better keep my Tower of Terror a permanent time capsule.
Ah, but NOSTALGIA is what fueled all of WDW's popularity over the years...espcially for the decades there was not much new happening. Nostalgia is part of the brand and part of it's success.
And the quality chicken fingers to crappy pressed and formed pink sludge chicken nuggets should make everyone mad... It was a total decline in food quality!
 

MickeyMinnieMom

Well-Known Member
Well, we mitch and boan every time they try anything new or different, too. They can’t freakin change a dessert or drop a park from three places serving burgers to JUST TWO without us having a hissy fit. Nostalgia has become an albatross around WDW’s neck. Anytime they suggest changing ANYTHING, we flip. Remember when they went from chicken fingers to chicken nuggets?
Nostalgia remains an asset overall. Some people will freak out about ANY decision. Luckily, when it comes to small stuff especially, it's usually a relatively small group on unofficial "fan" boards. And Disney is smart enough to ignore if they notice. :) Surveys have a use to any well-run company -- stuff like the griping on here by small, vocal groups doesn't.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Nostalgia as a business model only works if you can get the next generation to buy into what the previous generation did. Otherwise, you're only going to have an aging and diminishing clientele buying what you're selling.

You get a new generation thinking that what their parents and grandparents are waxing nostalgic over is not cool, then it's only a matter of time before your business is dead. If you have kids who've grown up on iPad babysitters rolling their eyes at limited motion pirate mannequins... it's game over... eventually.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Well, we mitch and boan every time they try anything new or different, too. They can’t freakin change a dessert or drop a park from three places serving burgers to JUST TWO without us having a hissy fit. Nostalgia has become an albatross around WDW’s neck. Anytime they suggest changing ANYTHING, we flip. Remember when they went from chicken fingers to chicken nuggets?

That said, if they ever get rid of that peanut butter pie at Contempo, I’ll lose my schnitzel. And they damn well better keep my Tower of Terror a permanent time capsule.
Ah, but NOSTALGIA is what fueled all of WDW's popularity over the years...espcially for the decades there was not much new happening. Nostalgia is part of the brand and part of it's success.
And the quality chicken fingers to crappy pressed and formed pink sludge chicken nuggets should make everyone mad... It was a total decline in food quality!
Nostalgia remains an asset overall. Some people will freak out about ANY decision. Luckily, when it comes to small stuff especially, it's usually a relatively small group on unofficial "fan" boards. And Disney is smart enough to ignore if they notice. :) Surveys have a use to any well-run company -- stuff like the griping on here by small, vocal groups doesn't.
There’s an enormous difference between Americana-style nostalgia and simply refusing to innovate. For example, Pooh’s Hunny Hunt at TDL encapsulates nostalgia but uses tech that’s still mind-blowing, despite being almost 15 years old.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Nostalgia as a business model only works if you can get the next generation to buy into what the previous generation did. Otherwise, you're only going to have an aging and diminishing clientele buying what you're selling.

You get a new generation thinking that what their parents and grandparents are waxing nostalgic over is not cool, then it's only a matter of time before your business is dead. If you have kids who've grown up on iPad babysitters rolling their eyes at limited motion pirate mannequins... it's game over... eventually.
Good thing that’s not happening, because SSE has proven immersive pirate sets are still more exciting than touchscreens in a cart. ;)

Magic Kingdom parks thrive on idealized, nostalgic views of bygone eras, times that never existed, and times that might exist. But when the company simply repackages a pixie-dust nostalgia for the way the parks used to be — rather than what guests actually experience — it will eventually ring false and catch up to them.

Exhibit A: HM merchandise that prominently features Ghost Host lines you can’t hear on the ride because the spiel now begins before you walk into the stretching room, which itself now begins stretching before the door is closed.

Is WDI going to restore Tomorrowland’s original architecture and fill the Monsters and Stitch buildings with good attractions? Will COP continue rotating with broken AAs and poor audio? Will Space ever get a new track? We’ll see.
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
There’s an enormous difference between Americana-style nostalgia and simply refusing to innovate. For example, Pooh’s Hunny Hunt at TDL encapsulates nostalgia but uses tech that’s still mind-blowing, despite being almost 15 years old.
Exactly. And Walt himself really understood this fantastic mix. He adroitly moved between a reverence for the past and an optimistic view of the future. Disneyland (just like the Magic Kingdom) lays it out for you: You walk a stylized turn-o'-the century Main Street, USA, with a tangible Fantasyland ahead; and just before you get there you are balanced to your left and right by lands of the past (Frontierland) and full of adventure that are opposite a land dedicated to the promise of Tomorrow -- all of which are stylized with whimsy but using modern technology and amenities (indoor plumbing on Tom Sawyer Island anyone?).

The far and away difference that Disney parks and resorts made was always enthusiasm and wonder. It was always "authentic" but infused with modern technology. The key, I think, is caring.

And being self referential is also a double-edged sword. Done right it is a way to keep up the ideals and quality -- and even a little wink and a nod for fun; but done wrong it can actually be self deprecating, even unintentionally.

So a good balance of reverence for the past -- its own and others' -- and love for the future and innovation has always informed Disney designs. But to get the balance right I think it takes some care.
 

DisneyGentlemanV2.0

Well-Known Member
Exactly. And Walt himself really understood this fantastic mix. He adroitly moved between a reverence for the past and an optimistic view of the future. Disneyland (just like the Magic Kingdom) lays it out for you: You walk a stylized turn-o'-the century Main Street, USA, with a tangible Fantasyland ahead; and just before you get there you are balanced to your left and right by lands of the past (Frontierland) and full of adventure that are opposite a land dedicated to the promise of Tomorrow -- all of which are stylized with whimsy but using modern technology and amenities (indoor plumbing on Tom Sawyer Island anyone?).

The far and away difference that Disney parks and resorts made was always enthusiasm and wonder. It was always "authentic" but infused with modern technology. The key, I think, is caring.

And being self referential is also a double-edged sword. Done right it is a way to keep up the ideals and quality -- and even a little wink and a nod for fun; but done wrong it can actually be self deprecating, even unintentionally.

So a good balance of reverence for the past -- its own and others' -- and love for the future and innovation has always informed Disney designs. But to get the balance right I think it takes some care.
...reverence for the past .... love for the future ...

...picking your pockets clean for the present
 

HauntedPirate

Premium Member
Exactly. And Walt himself really understood this fantastic mix. He adroitly moved between a reverence for the past and an optimistic view of the future. Disneyland (just like the Magic Kingdom) lays it out for you: You walk a stylized turn-o'-the century Main Street, USA, with a tangible Fantasyland ahead; and just before you get there you are balanced to your left and right by lands of the past (Frontierland) and full of adventure that are opposite a land dedicated to the promise of Tomorrow -- all of which are stylized with whimsy but using modern technology and amenities (indoor plumbing on Tom Sawyer Island anyone?).

The far and away difference that Disney parks and resorts made was always enthusiasm and wonder. It was always "authentic" but infused with modern technology. The key, I think, is caring.

And being self referential is also a double-edged sword. Done right it is a way to keep up the ideals and quality -- and even a little wink and a nod for fun; but done wrong it can actually be self deprecating, even unintentionally.

So a good balance of reverence for the past -- its own and others' -- and love for the future and innovation has always informed Disney designs. But to get the balance right I think it takes some care.
Well said. There is a balancing act, which Disney management of yore handled well, but more recent management took the easy way out and has little care of balance, only margins.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
Exhibit A: HM merchandise that prominently features Ghost Host lines you can’t hear on the ride because the spiel now begins before you walk into the stretching room, which itself now begins stretching before the door is closed.

Completely off topic, but... is this still happening?

We didn't get a chance to ride HM last visit. Is the spiel and stretching still starting before doors are closed? I know this was an issue, but I am wondering if this is actually part of operating procedures, or a result of CM's who are just trying to push through as many guests as possible.

Remember, Show before Efficiency?

EDIT: Just read the other thread about this. What a mess.
 
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trainplane3

Well-Known Member
Completely off topic, but... is this still happening?

We didn't get a chance to ride HM last visit. Is the spiel and stretching still starting before doors are closed? I know this was an issue, but I am wondering if this is actually part of operating procedures, or a result of CM's who are just trying to push through as many guests as possible.

Remember, Show before Efficiency?
I'd say it is. @tirian made a thread about it recently actually.
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
I'd say it is. @tirian made a thread about it recently actually.
I'd say it is. @tirian made a thread about it recently actually.
Somehow I missed that thread! Just saw it. Thanks for the heads up.
 
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