The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
Attitudes are not much different from 1930's Germany I find that scary in the extreme, I've brought up this subject before and was called a 'conspiracy theorist' etc
But we're aren't going to be killed for the government here. Please guys let's not compare anything to 1930's Germany. Plus it's in our damn constitution that we can say whatever we damn well please, granted not that we are following that anymore since our freedom of speech was essentially taken away post 9/11, but come on now guys Nazi Germany... Really?
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to place it here, but there was a fascinating little discussion on the twitter this week between a dead guy that used to run Disney ... E.Cardon Walker ... and a live guy that takes nice pics for Micechat, Andy Castro regarding all the cuts that happen at WDW ... worth a look for you Tweeters or just lookers.
A discussion regarding all the cuts at WDW? Must be an all day read.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
I'm not really sure how to take this, but Cabana Bay is much more than just another cheap hotel. Universal and Lowes have really built something special. I think it would still be sold out even if it wasn't such a great value.
Having been there in person all around the grounds yes it is! What they've done is absolutely incredible IMO. It's so obvious Universal is taking it to a Disney (parks wise) right now I don't get how anybody can even think Disney is hanging. Universal is destroying Disney at their own game. They are about to open an Incredibly detailed over the top land that has real "wow" factor and meanwhile we are looking through a chicken wire fence at Disneys new coaster. As I said in another post somewhere Universal is building a huge new fan base that they never had before. Give it a generation and they will have the only thing that disney has going for it as well... Nostalgia. Then we have a truly equal playing field.
 

Mickey_777

Well-Known Member
Thats why i moved SOUTH. Still warm, better job market, slightly less traffic (very slightly), and far less tourists (tho that has been steadily increasing these days). And hey, I get to drive by not one, but TWO disney cruise lines every day.

I love hearing about traffic in other places. Here in DC rush hour traffic spreads 30 miles into the Virginia and Maryland suburbs in every direction. It used to take me over an hour and a half to get to work dowtown from my home in VA 25 miles away. Our winters up here are brutal (more snow on the way and it's almost april!) and our humid summers rival what you find in Florida. And if you're not into meuseums, there isn't a whole lot to do from Nov-April cause it's too cold out. If I can get a good job lined up, I'll take the sunshine state for 300 Alex.

you take a great photo btw
 
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englanddg

One Little Spark...
I love hearing about traffic in other places. Here in DC rush hour traffic spreads 30 miles into the Virginia and Maryland suburbs in every direction. It used to take me over an hour and a half to get to work dowtown from my home in VA 25 miles away. Our winters up here are brutal (more snow on the way and it's almost april!) and our humid summers rival what you find in Florida. And if you're not into meuseums, there isn't a whole lot to do from Nov-April cause of the weather. If I can get a good job lined up, I'll take the sunshine state for 300 Alex.

you take a great photo btw
I suspect NOVA.

Springfield or so.

Take the METRO.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
You truly have a gift for missing the point. I don't want to be nasty, so that's all I'll say.
Well, you have a gift for exaggerating a situation that has no point. So I guess we are even. The point wasn't missed, my point was elaborated to show the foolishness of it all. There are things to fear in life, and when those are brought up, I will fight right along side you, however, this is not one of them. I find the whole discussion of "Theme Park" tracking asinine and that is my point that you and others refuse to see.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
But we're aren't going to be killed for the government here. Please guys let's not compare anything to 1930's Germany. Plus it's in our damn constitution that we can say whatever we damn well please, granted not that we are following that anymore since our freedom of speech was essentially taken away post 9/11, but come on now guys Nazi Germany... Really?

almost.....you know when all that stuff occurred in nazi Germany they said the same things? really, not now ect....you believe only what you think YOU could imagine. Those in power are not you and CAN imagine crueler things than the devil....(hes contractually obligated)

edit (this is why im so pro gun) (it is the only real insurance policy) that most of our friends in Europe have abandoned.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Attitudes are not much different from 1930's Germany I find that scary in the extreme, I've brought up this subject before and was called a 'conspiracy theorist' etc

no conspiracy theorist live in bunkers and avoid human contact and or stand on corners with the end is near signs. a smart citizen cant trust a single politician as far as he can throw him and keeps a box of 100 grain hoping never to need it. alot of Americans have no issue with surrendering privacy and liberty to be "safe" that "safe" is just a perception....the privacy and liberty you surrendered are real freedoms. hell we brought an empire to its knees to make it clear..than we saved there a** twice and they still think were ignorant.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm not really sure how to take this, but Cabana Bay is much more than just another cheap hotel. Universal and Lowes have really built something special. I think it would still be sold out even if it wasn't such a great value.

I can't imagine they won't jack up the prices soon after opening. If the place is sold out at current prices basic economics tells you to raise prices. Universal has generally followed Disney with prices at the parks. If it's priced less than a value resort at Disney that makes little economic sense. They will probably raise the base price and then offer discounts in the off season.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Here is what has made the hotel situation worse. Since 2001 they have added just over 7,000 rooms.
The low point, from the graph by @ParentsOf4 , in empty room nights came in 2007-08, and most of those additional rooms were already available then. Hence, you are correct, we can't blame the current reduction in resort occupancy just on having too many rooms; Rather, the problem appears to be one of prices raised to wholly unreasonable levels. Indeed, while there are other factors at work, there is a much stronger correlation between ticket prices and hotel occupancy than I would have imagined.
Thanks to the both of you for posting.

It's nice so many recognize that WDW's problems aren't from a single source. It's complicated, very complicated. A weak economy is a problem, excess hotel construction is a problem, overpriced rooms are a problem, lack of exciting additions is a problem, competition is a problem, DVC is a problem, advertising strategy is a problem. Overriding it all though, the total price of a WDW vacation is the greatest problem.

It's difficult to show the total price in a single graph. There are so many variables. However, nearly everyone who visits WDW buys a ticket. And those vacationing at WDW tend to buy multiday tickets. WDW's multiday ticket prices are representative of what's occurring at the macro level.

What the growing number of empty rooms is indicative of is a management team that does not respect its customer, of a business that is beginning to price itself out of its core market. It's indicative of an organization that's a few years away from potentially serious economic trouble.

WDW is selling theme park tickets because of its former greatness, because of nostalgia, because of what Roy Disney created, because of what Card Walker and Michael Eisner expanded on. Not because of anything being done by current leadership.

People hear about record profits, record attendance, but don't look behind those numbers to see where they are coming from and what they mean for the future.

Corporate Disney is using latest trends from lean manufacturing and cost accounting to prop up margins. They cut corners, removing details that separated WDW from the competition and, in doing so, cheapen the product. They raise the price of a 5-day ticket by $15 and then offer a $10 limited-time "discount". These tricks are indicative of a management team more concerned with this year's annual bonus than with the health of the organization 5 or 10 years from now, of a management team that has no vision. Of a team that has no heart for the theme park business. How much more can extracted from paying customers before it begins to boomerang?

They green-light NextGen and yet let J.K. Rowling walk. They move forward with Avatar Land yet dither on Star Wars Land. They expand their most popular theme park yet let three theme parks languish. They market towards little children whose parents are struggling to make ends meet yet ignore the tens-of-millions of North American adults best able to afford WDW's prices.

It's not leadership whose decisions instill confidence.

Ultimately, all roads lead to the top; to Iger, Rasulo, and Staggs. Those in Orlando are just foot soldiers. It's the generals in Burbank that are sending them their marching orders.

WDW desperately needs someone in charge who has that "vision thing" and who possesses enough clout to make things happen. Instead they have a bunch of administrators who should be working on Wall Street. Or at Walmart. :(
 
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CrescentLake

Well-Known Member
They already masterplanned a resort where River Country sits and rots (maybe Dr. Blondie or Bland Tommy or Crazy Gary can do a blog post about RC 'Then and Now' ...) that was shelved due to cost.

BUT ... building one in the EPCOT parking lot would be far less costly ... yes, I am serious ... yes, they have a plan.


Thank you for the reply. If it were over the RC spot, I would be okay with it as it would breath new life into the area. (Disney needs to do something about the area, anything.) The Epcot parking lot has to be a joke. That'll be an operations nightmare, an ugly place for a resort...and just...why? If you're gonna keep building up the Epcot Resort Area, fine, but at least give us something to do in Epcot that isnt TT, Soarin and drinking.

(Not directed at you, just at recent posts after your reply) I'm not gonna touch the freedom/rights/NSA discussion with a ten foot pole. All I can say is the amount of misinformation and fear mongering here is off putting, to say the least.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Attitudes are not much different from 1930's Germany I find that scary in the extreme, I've brought up this subject before and was called a 'conspiracy theorist' etc
I would say more 1920's Weimar. If you ever get a chance to see "Triumph of the Will", pay attention the subtitles, the language of the politicians is not much different than today.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Thanks to the both of you for posting.

It's nice so many recognize that WDW's problems aren't from a single source. It's complicated, very complicated. A weak economy is a problem, excess hotel construction is a problem, overpriced rooms are a problem, lack of exciting additions is a problem, competition is a problem, DVC is a problem, advertising strategy is a problem. Overriding it all though, the total price of a WDW vacation is the greatest problem.

It's difficult to show the total price in a single graph. There are so many variables. However, nearly everyone who visits WDW buys a ticket. And those vacationing at WDW tend to buy multiday tickets. WDW's multiday ticket prices are representative of what's occurring at the macro level.

What the growing number of empty rooms is indicative of is a management team that does not respect its customer, of a business that is beginning to price itself out of its core market. It's indicative of an organization that's a few years away from potentially serious economic trouble.

WDW is selling theme park tickets because of its former greatness, because of nostalgia, because of what Roy Disney created, because of what Card Walker and Michael Eisner expanded on. Not because of anything being done by current leadership.

People hear about record profits, record attendance, but don't look behind those numbers to see where they are coming from and what they mean for the future.

Corporate Disney is using latest trends from lean manufacturing and cost accounting to prop up margins. They cut corners, removing details that separated WDW from the competition and, in doing so, cheapen the product. They raise the price of a 5-day ticket by $15 and then offer a $10 limited-time "discount". These tricks are indicative of a management team more concerned with this year's annual bonus than with the health of the organization 5 or 10 years from now, of a management team that has no vision. Of a team that has no heart for the theme park business. How much more can extracted from paying customers before it begins to boomerang?

They green-light NextGen and yet let J.K. Rowling walk. They move forward with Avatar Land yet dither on Star Wars Land. They expand their most popular theme park yet let three theme parks languish. They market towards little children whose parents are struggling to make ends meet yet ignore the tens-of-millions of North American adults best able to afford WDW's prices.

It's not leadership whose decisions instill confidence.

Ultimately, all roads lead to the top; to Iger, Rasulo, and Staggs. Those in Orlando are just foot soldiers. It's the generals in Burbank that are sending them their marching orders.

WDW desperately need someone in charge who has that "vision thing" and who possesses enough clout to make things happen. Instead they have a bunch of administrators who should be working on Wall Street. Or at Walmart. :(
Wow, you preach the Disney Gospel!

Amen, brother!
 

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