The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[ford91exploder]

I would say more 1920's Weimar. If you ever get a chance to see "Triumph of the Will", pay attention the subtitles, the language of the politicians is not much different than today.

No it's not that film was Leni Riefenstahl's masterwork - the fact that it was a propaganda masterwork notwithstanding. EVERYONE should see this film and think very hard on where we are going.

 

[nor'easter]

E]

Nah, I'll see them both ... and Newsies and Book of Mormon and call it a week in NYC!

Consensus on Rocky is that it sucks up until the last 20 minutes. Aladdin is ok, much better than Disney's more recent Broadway stinkers but not as innovative as The Lion King. Personally, I hated Book of Mormon. Some funny parts, but I'm not a fan of gross out humor (I bet even you will be shocked). IlBut the cool critics seem to like it (or say they do). You should check out Woody Allen's Bullets over Broadway, or the revival of Cabaret.

 

[Gabe1]

[/QUOTE]

I'm not really sure how to take this, but Cabana Bay is much more than just another cheap hotel. Universal and Lowes have really built something special. I think it would still be sold out even if it wasn't such a great value.

As I stated I stayed at Portofino's, for about a decade now. I move over to Disney for the rest of my vacation. I doubt though that Uni's new value would be sold out already if it mirrored the prices of AoA at Disney. Disney isn't selling out AoA suites very often.

While I agree Potter 2.0 is going to be a major draw and will push attendance, the Bay will be a draw since it is very reasonably priced for on property. I don't believe the resort from the videos I've seen is 'something special'. It is a nice suite inside, but there is not any 'wow' factor there, it mirrors chains that has been building these type of suites hotels for a couple of decades already.

The price is the major draw, the suite layout and on property is the secondary draw for the Uni CB. Now Portofino, that has the claim of 'wow,' they built something special and Rock comes close. Royal, not so much, nice but not something special.

 

[ford91exploder]

But we're aren't going to be killed for the government here. Please guys let's not compare anything to 1930's Germany. Plus it's in our damn constitution that we can say whatever we damn well please, granted not that we are following that anymore since our freedom of speech was essentially taken away post 9/11, but come on now guys Nazi Germany... Really?

We have a chief executive who asserts the right to kill american citizens without a trial anywhere in the world including US soil, pervasive monitoring of all communications channels government propaganda as 'news' - wait I forgot government run 'Youth' programs and a fixation on the 'natural' world.

Yeah i'd say the parallels are there for those to choose to see them.

For the rest we have 'American Idol', The View and other pablum on TV. One wonders if those who choose to take refuge in drugs or alcohol are in reality the sane ones in an insane world.

 

[PeterAlt]

I was just thinking... What will motivate WDW is for a paradigm shift to happen in Orlando. So, I tried to brain storm for what could possibly cause such a paradigm shift... And, then, I got it!

I remembered reading long ago that Orlando wanted to make a bid for the Olympics. Let's say the Olympics committee chooses Orlando to host the games. What effect would that have on Disney?

Think about it... with all the hotel rooms, ESPN, EPCOT Center, convention space, etc... In addition to all the new stadiums and arenas that would be built throughout the Orlando area (and maybe within WDW), there would be a real boom in construction every where, as well as mass transit links built (as every city that has hosted the Olympics has done)...

The fact that there's already plenty of hotel rooms, convention space, media facilities, sports facilities, stadiums, etc., makes Orlando that much more attractive as candidate for hosting the games...

 

[Gabe1]

As I said in another post somewhere Universal is building a huge new fan base that they never had before.

Now this I agree with if we are discussing parks.

Uni's and its outsourced resorts are just far more savvy when it comes to pricing their resorts and because of the value Uni will not likely be plagued with the room occupancy deficit that Disney is experiencing. Fall till Thanksgiving/Christmas will be telling.

All things Potter will be the major turning point for the parks capturing new fans, a brilliant move as it captures so many age demographics. Now furthering luring guests away from day visiting Uni with affordable suites demonstrates that Uni comprehends 'what the market will bear,' something that Disney has lost track of. The combo of building attractions that draw attendance and affordable housing is an amazing hook, Uni has for sure hooked a whole new fan base.

 

[71jason]

To be fair, I probably should have specified that I was talking about friends 30 and under. Folks who moved to the town to go to school and work at the theme parks, get recognized for their skills and abilities and have careers.

I agree there is a real issue with the way WDW operates--you have far too many leads/coordinators/assistant manager types convinced they'll move up the corporate ladder if they play good soldier and work 16-hours days Christmas week. Unfortunately, there aren't that many jobs available higher up. It's not a Ponzi scheme per se, but it definitely feels like something along those lines.

But this just isn't a very nice state, greatly overrated weather aside. Hell, we have evil incarnate running the place from Tally (gotta love how Governor Voldy thinks $33,000 cover charges for hospital visits are just fine ... of course, he'll get reelected because we have the dumbest electorate as well!)

Pockets of inbred hillbillies surrounded by large groups of retired folks who cared so much about the communities they grew up in--where they were born, worked, went to church, raised their kids--that they abandoned them for no snow. Plus a lot of developers trying to make a quick buck. Most Florida voters care as much about the state's future in 10 years as TWDC execs care about the company's future in 5 years.

Honestly, that's why Orlando is one of the few cities I'd live in down here. It actually has a vibrant population of mixed ages and even something resembling local culture at times.

I agree with a chunk of that, although I know plenty of online fans who have families, jobs (some quite kewl and well-paying) and lives way beyond a fan site. ... But I also don't find Orlando to be a happy place largely except for college kids and retirees.

I know plenty of people between college and retirement who are very happy. But they are the ones who visit once or twice a month, have maybe a faint clue Disney is doing something with Avatar, and long ago put their boxes of pins in a closet and forgot about them.

As for somewhat well-adjusted hardcore online fans living in Orlando with kewl jobs--well there's me. And @PhotoDave219. I'd love to meet some of the others. (Not that I think the worst of the online fanbois actually live in town.)

 

[71jason]

That is shame because DH, kids and I were thinking about moving down there from Indiana one year soon to be closer to the magic. Yet everything we read or learn about the area is negative, saying no jobs, high cost of living, and so on. it gets rather depressing but is still a dream of ours some day.

It's been said already in this thread, but having known plenty of people who moved down here to be closer to Disney, it's the worst possible reason to move. The real world is the real world no matter where you live. Still have to have a job, still have to go to the grocery store, still going to spend more nights at home watching TV than anything else. And even WDW gets old, especially during the crowded times of year once you've been spoiled by visiting when it's almost empty.

BTW, there are jobs here, but they don't pay a lot. I wouldn't say the cost of living is that high, CMs find ways to survive on peanuts, and there is no state income tax. To an extent, of course, that depends on what part of town you live in--Celebration is ridiculously overpriced, Polk County is a real bargain. You mention kids, the schools are horrible. But it's a friendly town, the weather is decent but for the brutal Summers, you can never be bored. In other words, there are a lot of pros and cons. But if your motivation is simply to be by Disney, I've never seen that end well.

 

[fbb]

Some friends of ours were trying to book at the new Cabana Bay hotel over at Universal and they found it completely sold out for at least June and July. That seemed surprising to me, but I guess it's going to be crazy busy this summer. I thought with the lack of express it may be less popular, but it may wind up being a runaway hit.

I see availability for anytime in June or July?

 

[ford91exploder]

I can't imagine they won't jack up the prices soon after opening. If the place is sold out at current prices basic economics tells you to raise prices. Universal has generally followed Disney with prices at the parks. If it's priced less than a value resort at Disney that makes little economic sense. They will probably raise the base price and then offer discounts in the off season.

What I can see happening is pricing at a small premium to comparable off-site hotels, What's fascinating about the Poly is that it was designed as a economical resort for families to stay at, It's why all the effort was poured into the GCH for the atmosphere and with the exception of exterior theming the longhouses were on par with a good Holiday Inn, This allowed Disney to economize yet have a fantastic overall hotel experience because in reality for most people rooms are simply a place to sleep.

 

[Nubs70]

I can't imagine they won't jack up the prices soon after opening. If the place is sold out at current prices basic economics tells you to raise prices. Universal has generally followed Disney with prices at the parks. If it's priced less than a value resort at Disney that makes little economic sense. They will probably raise the base price and then offer discounts in the off season.

Conversely, if the current price point yields acceptable net margin, build more hotels.

 

[bhg469]

What I can see happening is pricing at a small premium to comparable off-site hotels, What's fascinating about the Poly is that it was designed as a economical resort for families to stay at, It's why all the effort was poured into the GCH for the atmosphere and with the exception of exterior theming the longhouses were on par with a good Holiday Inn, This allowed Disney to economize yet have a fantastic overall hotel experience because in reality for most people rooms are simply a place to sleep.

I never thought about this because it was out of my price range my entire adult life. Its amazing how much those rooms cost and even more amazing is that people arre willing to pay it. When I travel for work they keep me under 170 a night except in NY LA and Boston. Having said that the moderates should be priced at a microtel.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

They market towards little children whose parents are struggling to make ends meet yet ignore the tens-of-millions of North American adults best able to afford WDW's prices.

Absolutely. Their focus is always on the next gen lil' Disney soldier. Parents beg, borrow, and steal to make it happen because of nostalgia.

But times and culture change.

Adults who don't have kids yet are a fantastic demographic for Disney to catch. Instead of "make memories like I did when I was young," they are a fresh objective perspective.

If Disney doesn't cater to that, then they are playing a game of diminishing returns. Imagine when these young adults DO have children. The next generation of kids will remember Universal as their greatest childhood vacation. . . That's bad news for a WDW currently reliant on those memories for their success.

 

[GoofGoof]

Conversely, if the current price point yields acceptable net margin, build more hotels.

That may be the way they go if they think it will work. Just keep this in mind. We hear a lot about Disney being a heartless corporation only concerned about the bottom line. Comcast is no different. If they can have higher margins by charging more they will. Comcast isn't in this to build the most popular or most affordable theme park. They are in it to make the most money they can make, just like Disney. If like many people are claiming their new resort is more in line with a moderate at Disney and it is wildly popular there is no reason they won't raise the prices to the point of the Disney moderates.

I assume the people running Universal look at the current Disney situation and the glut of hotel rooms and don't make the same mistake by overbuilding. Having available on site rooms can be profitable for them, but once the rooms become the business and the parks become secondary they will be right where Disney is now.

 

[GoofGoof]

What I can see happening is pricing at a small premium to comparable off-site hotels, What's fascinating about the Poly is that it was designed as a economical resort for families to stay at, It's why all the effort was poured into the GCH for the atmosphere and with the exception of exterior theming the longhouses were on par with a good Holiday Inn, This allowed Disney to economize yet have a fantastic overall hotel experience because in reality for most people rooms are simply a place to sleep.

This makes sense. I think it is currently priced at a premium to off site hotels. You can get a standard motel room on intl drive for $50 or less some times of the year. I kinda think Universal wants to have the appearance of competing directly with WDW as opposed to the chain hotels and motels.

They are going to need to ramp up their special events on property to fill these rooms in the off season. WDW has for years been hosting sports events, school events, conventions and other gimmicks to get people to their rooms when the parks aren't busy. If Universal wants to expand their hotel offerings even more they are going to need to get more active in this game. Even Harry Potter can't fill all those rooms in September or January. Maybe they will break out a free dining plan

 

[ford91exploder]

This makes sense. I think it is currently priced at a premium to off site hotels. You can get a standard motel room on intl drive for $50 or less some times of the year. I kinda think Universal wants to have the appearance of competing directly with WDW as opposed to the chain hotels and motels.

They are going to need to ramp up their special events on property to fill these rooms in the off season. WDW has for years been hosting sports events, school events, conventions and other gimmicks to get people to their rooms when the parks aren't busy. If Universal wants to expand their hotel offerings even more they are going to need to get more active in this game. Even Harry Potter can't fill all those rooms in September or January. Maybe they will break out a free dining plan

What I was thinking of as competition was the Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham etc - not so much the low price brands which compete on price only.

 

[Bolna]

I would say more 1920's Weimar. If you ever get a chance to see "Triumph of the Will", pay attention the subtitles, the language of the politicians is not much different than today.

No it's not that film was Leni Riefenstahl's masterwork - the fact that it was a propaganda masterwork notwithstanding. EVERYONE should see this film and think very hard on where we are going.

Actually Triumph of the Will is from the 1934 Nazi Party Annual Rally. Interestingly, the copyright is owned by the German state and hence here in Germany you can only see it as part of an educational screening in museums or such. It will always include commentary and an introduction.

while the rhetoric in this film might be especially obvious, there are enough other examples for it. And for someone like me who grew up learning that we have a responsibility that this part of my country's history May never again repeat itself, a lot of political rhetoric easily becomes cringe-worthy, especially listening to US politicians. But I don't think it is the rhetoric that make something bad, it is the content. While certain means might be a warning sign (if I sell by appealing only to feelings, not to ratio) it is no way a sign that everything is bad.

Sorry for the thread thrift, it is just a topic that makes me write a lot (and if you make the connection of marketing a product instead of ideas in a purely emotional, not rational form, we could even make a connection back to those who sell pixie dust ;-) )

 

[ScoutN]

I see availability for anytime in June or July?

As do I

 

[Kuzcotopia]

That may be the way they go if they think it will work. Just keep this in mind. We hear a lot about Disney being a heartless corporation only concerned about the bottom line. Comcast is no different. If they can have higher margins by charging more they will. Comcast isn't in this to build the most popular or most affordable theme park. They are in it to make the most money they can make, just like Disney. If like many people are claiming their new resort is more in line with a moderate at Disney and it is wildly popular there is no reason they won't raise the prices to the point of the Disney moderates.

I assume the people running Universal look at the current Disney situation and the glut of hotel rooms and don't make the same mistake by overbuilding. Having available on site rooms can be profitable for them, but once the rooms become the business and the parks become secondary they will be right where Disney is now.

I agree. Everyone in the greater Orlando area is out to make as much money as possible.

I think people really disagree about what services /prices actually produce the more success long term (as opposed to short term).

WDW doesn't seem to be thinking long term, and Universal is.

But then again, for all we know, Universal's long term plan is to invest now, let things decline for 15 years, and watch the profits roll in for the foreseeable future.

We really have no way of knowing for sure. All we can see is what everyone's doing now, and get a sense of their plans only a couple years out.

 

[ScoutN]

Uni's values- standard starts at $93 standard, Suites start at $134; moderate 165-186 depending on which; Deluxe, where I stay at start at $204. AoA rack rates start at $164 standard for the values and $391 for a value suite.
I understand why tourists are going to Uni for values, because they are just that a Value. Disney's Moderate resorts are slightly more than Uni's deluxe resort.

I saw this and got excited with the $93 bit. I couldn't find that on any date and searched a good chunk of times looking for a time to check Cabana Bay out.