lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Nobody has been denying the aesthetic inspirations.
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The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I both like and dislike your post strongly, my friend. Probably I am as conflcted as you are over the Tangled toilets taking the place of our beloved quail tile facilities.
Life is more important than anything we are going to chat about here. Believe me, I know that. I wasn't joking about awaiting autopsy results.
But we are here because we all are fans of WDW (some of us more so, some of us the Disney BRAND, some theme parks in general, some of us are simply entertainment junkies). It doesn't make something wrong with us that we enjoy this (yes, I work in media and entertainment, but, no, I have never worked in the theme park business despite knowing many folks and even being hit on by a Disney exec or two!)
The world is falling apart, but does that mean we can't enjoy life in the very brief window we have for living it? I have made some wonderful amazing friendships due to my time online (and here on MAGIC) by arguing about the thematic integrity of the World Showcase!I suppose I could have used the time to devote my energies to Habitat For Humanity (oh wait, they only want volunteers that they hand pick so no, I couldn''t be building houses for the homeless).
It sorta reminds me of 9/11 and how for a week I barely left my TV, let alone house, and all I did was watch the horrific coverage. And then one night I switched channels and saw Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory and I watched Gene Wilder and I smiled and I laughed and the next day I showered and shaved and left the house. The next weekend I was at WDW.
98 percent of what is on the Internet is likely a total waste of your time, is only good for another one percent , so what does that leave?
I am passionate about EPCOT Center because it truly inspired me. The technology was amazing. And all of those countries? I hadn't been to Los Angeles or the Grand Canyon yet. Those nations were amazing for me to get a true taste of, even Disneyfied (that isn't the same as being puked on by any of Disney's BRANDS of today). I have now been to every country in WS, but two. ... So when I see Disney systematically Separating the place because it is the cheap and easy and lazy thing to do, it bothers me. I may sound like a total Disney geek, but EPCOT inspired me in so many ways. So many ways that Frozen or a $79 after hours snack party with dancing (naturally) will never do.
So, I want to push an agenda here that is distinctly anti-current Disney management. It can (and does) make a difference in the real world (just ask Georgie K if he has to hold one in when I start suggesting there's more to Golden Oak than meets the eye here and to those behind the scenes).
Is it life or death? Nah.
But it's like watching the NFL, restoring old motorcycles or painting on the weekends ... It's a fun hobby that I am passionate about that is just a small piece of who I am.
So, King Poopyhead, stop ragging on those of us who care about the thematic integrity of EPCOT's Norway pavilion. It's not like we're like those fanbois who rub their privates up against EPCOT wall carpeting until they bleed. C'mon. They're just the minions I keep chained in the closet (many of them are happiest there anyway, ya know?)
I personally despise the fact that frozen is going into the world showcase. I find it shortsighted and ridiculous.
What turns me off about the entire equation? It's the fanboy reaction. They act like it's the worst thing since Hitler invaded Poland.
Of a side note, a friend mentioned to me that maelstrom had an 80 minute line yesterday.
Honestly, if they're trying to get more attractions into Epcot, there's plenty of land you can use in the future world. There is an entire pavilion sitting unused that can be turned into else's Arctic paradise… Or something of that nature.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Also the fan boys took their slacktivism to a whole new level when they started that Epcot hashtag on Twitter…
TeriofTerror
Well-Known Member
No one is denying that Disney has the right to do as they please. If people truly thought that, they'd be suing instead of complaining. But just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.
Kungaloosh1937
Active Member
There is a reason why the name "Disney" became Disney. What the company is doing now is not how they got to be that way. That's the crux of it.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised no one tweeted phone numbers or email addresses out. THAT'S how you get TWDC's attention, not that you, and I certainly do, #believeinEpcot.
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Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Not just that, the experience as a whole entity was completely different when compared to today's Guest experience at WDW.
I am setting aside the 'nostalgia' factor, and just recalling the overall vibe of the Resort back then -
The WDW Resort back then was classy.
It was , dare i day, 'upscale' in some respects.
MK was a wonderful colorful tapestry that blended perfectly within itself in both concept, scope, scale, and design. Enchanting.
EPCOT Center was a stunning, unique, and mentally inspiring experience where you came away feeling personally empowered.
The two Parks were purposely built to compliment each other, not compete, and the early MK and EC were just that.
It worked as a whole.
The few Resort hotels that existed then were posh by late 70s/early 80s standards. The Contemp and Poly were in their prime.
Dining was classy. I have photos that would probably make today's newer visitors faint out of sheer disbelief.
"THAT is a restaurant at WDW...at a hotel...??"
Top Of The World ( original, at the Contemporary )...classy night club-ish feel with LIVE bands and dancing. People dressed up in suits and gowns to dine.
The Empress Lily...originally...in it's previous incarnation as a beautifully adored, downright swag dining location...with live entertainment aboard.
The Disney Village ( pre-Downtown Disney ) was also completely different.
It was like a green park with lots of trees and walking paths.
Search out some old photos...it is a sharp contrast to what has been there over the last 15+ years.
The Village had a relaxing vibe to it. Low key but beautifully landscaped. A place to 'escape' the whirl of the Parks.
The shops were selling unique items and many you could watch being made.
There was also some decent dining there. It was the anti-mall.
These are just a few examples that pop into my head as i sit here and reminisce.
I am not even touching on the Attractions to be had back then...the quality and quantity.
Most here are aware of those...regardless of when they first started visiting WDW, so no need to elaborate the point.
We lost some stunning works in the madness to conform, convert, and crossover.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Yes, things change....and things can never be what they once were, but when a Company sets forth such a grand vision and sets such a high bar previously it is difficult and disappointing to see the diminished scope.
Change is absolutely essential to the survival of anything, especially a entity such as a elaborately designed Theme Park.
When said elaborate Park starts seeing changes that may in some strong opinions be detrimental to it's overall long term health it raises some eyebrows.
There should be concern for changes that are being made for the 'wrong reasons'.
From a fan perspective this can be a debatable area...as everyone has their own feelings towards what those 'right' and 'wrong' reasons are.
A know a lot of folks seem to get 'a desire to return to the past' confused with wanting to 'bring back all the cool old stuff' to the Parks.
There is a difference, at least from my perspective.
I'm in the camp that would like to see the Company return to their roots and focus more on developing the Florida Property positively and creatively in a long term way...not a short term way.
I am aware of many fans who will likely equate that with bringing back old Attractions...but that is folly.
What is past is past, those times had their 'time'...and we are now in a different era.
However, there is nothing wrong with building upon the fine foundation already set in place by those efforts previously.
Today's Disney does not seem interested in doing so.
This is where i express difference.
There has to be a balance, and it seems the scales have been off-center for a while.
I look forward to the day when they may be re-set...
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Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
...Did they just redesign the Orange Bird into a human superhero?
Does he punch Anita Byrant in the first issue?
And isn't that what fanbois really want?
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
I hoped over to EPCOT before I left today just to ride one last time. All the FP+ were gone and the listed wait was 50 minutes. In the end I waited about 25.
ogryn
Well-Known Member
Totally this. Without trying to write too much hyperbole, Epcot solidified who I am and my career path. As a young teenager it was unlike any place I'd visited before (and maybe never again?)
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
He's just a reimagining of the original Captain Citrus, which was really just an orange with a face and cape.Does he punch Anita Byrant in the first issue?
And isn't that what fanbois really want?
TeriofTerror
Well-Known Member
This fangirl wants to see someone punch Anita Bryant. I'd pay really good money for that!Does he punch Anita Byrant in the first issue?
And isn't that what fanbois really want?
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine any twitter obsessed fanboi actually using their phones to talk to anyone important. Or mail a letter (stamps and all!) to get someone's attention. They're more than happy to live in their social media bubble and avoid actual confrontation.
The Nowergian citizens and government could also confront Disney, but if they only shout in their own media circles it won't get their attention either.
How much internet ink has been spilt raging about this change when a fraction of the time could have been spent talking to someone with some importance?
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Same here.
EPCOT Center did the same for me.
It meant so much more then just a 'fun day out at a Theme Park' back then.
It was life changing. It left you with a sense of empowerment.
When you left, you wanted to go out into the world and DO something.
I can't say i get that feeling from today's version of EPCOT.
Too much over-saturation and once great concepts diluted or just outright destroyed for petty reasons.
There is still 'something' there though...but i will confess i think for me it is the 'nostalgia factor' now.
Still, it will be a place i will look back on with fond memories for the most part.
It is important to see it develop in new directions but some just do not compliment the Park well.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Walt Disney's goal was to create entertainment for all ages:
I wish those running corporate Disney would contemplate Walt Disney's sage advice when running Disney's theme parks.
"The idea for Disneyland came about when my daughters were very young and Saturday was always Daddy's day with the two daughters. ... I felt there should be something built where the parents and the children could have fun together."
"Adults are interested if you don't play down to little two- or three-year-olds or talk down. I don't believe in talking down to children."
"You can't live on things made for children or for critics. I never made films for either of them. Disneyland is not just for children. I don't play down."
"In the wintertime you can go [to Disneyland] during the week and you won't see any children. You'll see the oldsters out there riding all those rides and having fun and everything. Summertime, of course, the average would drop down. But the overall, year-round average, it's four adults to one child."
"Part of the Disney success is our ability to create a believable world of dreams that appeals to all age groups. The kind of entertainment we create is meant to appeal to every member of the family."
"You're dead if you only aim for kids."
"Adults are interested if you don't play down to little two- or three-year-olds or talk down. I don't believe in talking down to children."
"You can't live on things made for children or for critics. I never made films for either of them. Disneyland is not just for children. I don't play down."
"In the wintertime you can go [to Disneyland] during the week and you won't see any children. You'll see the oldsters out there riding all those rides and having fun and everything. Summertime, of course, the average would drop down. But the overall, year-round average, it's four adults to one child."
"Part of the Disney success is our ability to create a believable world of dreams that appeals to all age groups. The kind of entertainment we create is meant to appeal to every member of the family."
"You're dead if you only aim for kids."
I wish those running corporate Disney would contemplate Walt Disney's sage advice when running Disney's theme parks.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
EPCOT Center was absolutely awesome.....for it's time....back in the 80s/early 90s.
There was a incredible lead-up to the Park opening in 1982, and when it finally did....it blew the world away.
There was a lot of serious thought put into the concepts expressed in that original incarnation of the Park.
Some very impressive stuff.
For one thing, at that time, the selection of Attraction experiences and the tech used to showcase them was stunning.
Many of the 'classics' fans talk about today were labeled such for good reason.
When i look back at some of the displays and exhibits that used to be there, some of them may be considered hokey to today's standards...but at the time they were originally presented in those early days it was nothing short of mesmerizing.
Visiting EPCOT Center back then was a incredibly forward-thinking experience in many respects.
It challenged your thinking and stimulated your thought process.
This is why i loved it so...you were not merely a passive observer like today.
You went in those gates expecting to see some neat things and instead came out a changed person for the better in many cases.
Time and time again i read about fan recollections of visiting EC back in the day and how immensely it effected them.
Many pursued careers in the science and tech industry after visiting EPCOT Center, and many more became enamored with wanting to learn more about something they first saw or experienced at the Park.
Do Guests that visit EPCOT today do that...?
Do today's Guests get 'inspired' by what they experience at EPCOT..?
Is there thinking capacity being challenged or enhanced, or are they merely observing in a dim wakefulness?
There are still remnants of that old original spirit.
'The American Adventure' is pure 'Classic EPCOT Center' still..thankfully...and 'Living with The Land' is in some aspects still keeping the flame burning.
I think the ones who keep the flame burning even more so are those whose lives were touched by that original Theme Park experience and will never forget it's impact on their lives.
It would be nice if a few of the folks still left at Corporate could remember that experience too....and try to recapture that spirit for today's Guests in new exciting ways.
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Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I don't really care about mission statements when it comes to Epcot. As with any organization, they're meaingless if actions go against those statements. EPCOT's vision has changed so many times since Walt's death that I doubt any one, clear, true vision exists. Card Walker's plaque that has been quoted as gospel here, was really just a PR move done to make everyone forget about that movie from October 1966 that showed very clearly what EPCOT meant to the leader of the company.
Disney's real (meaning, in practice) mission with WS since opening has been to sell food and merch. No other theme park land in the company's history has been so skewed towards those activities. 1 ride has been added to the area since 1982, but 3 new restaurants have opened in the last 5 years. Even during the explosion of growth in WDW during the 90s and changes made to Future World that decade, nothing happened with WS beyond upgrading the AAs at American Adventure. We still have that "temporary" Outpost pretending to be a new country.
Adding Frozent to Malestrom does not change this focus. It's not a new ride, nor really a better one since it will still be short with overlong queues. If it wasn't being built, than WS's attraction mix would stay the same and Malestrom would still lacking in potential. With today's Disney Frozen is hardly stopping any other ride from being built. As for characters, not building Frozen wouldn't get Nemo out of the Living Seas or the Princesses out of Akershus (a popular meal with the masses) [I view Gran Fiesta differently than most because I'm actually familiar with the content and context of The Three Caballeros, but I doubt many EPCOT Center fanbois have even watched the movie, let alone owned a copy - that and the original boat ride was nothing special]
People talk about "the big picture", but really Frozen is anything but. It's a symptom of the situation, not a major deal unto itself. Unless it's razed and redone from scratch, Maelstrom will always be a minor attraction and any changes to it (for better or worse, this includes the non-Frozen proposed upgrade) will be minor for the park as a whole. If people really want to get upset, complain about the fact that overlays are seen as a good enough substitute for new experiences at Epcot, and that Disney thinks building food boths is more valuable to WS than Mt. Fuji, the Matterhorn or new countries.
Epcot: Where Dinner is Served
Disney's real (meaning, in practice) mission with WS since opening has been to sell food and merch. No other theme park land in the company's history has been so skewed towards those activities. 1 ride has been added to the area since 1982, but 3 new restaurants have opened in the last 5 years. Even during the explosion of growth in WDW during the 90s and changes made to Future World that decade, nothing happened with WS beyond upgrading the AAs at American Adventure. We still have that "temporary" Outpost pretending to be a new country.
Adding Frozent to Malestrom does not change this focus. It's not a new ride, nor really a better one since it will still be short with overlong queues. If it wasn't being built, than WS's attraction mix would stay the same and Malestrom would still lacking in potential. With today's Disney Frozen is hardly stopping any other ride from being built. As for characters, not building Frozen wouldn't get Nemo out of the Living Seas or the Princesses out of Akershus (a popular meal with the masses) [I view Gran Fiesta differently than most because I'm actually familiar with the content and context of The Three Caballeros, but I doubt many EPCOT Center fanbois have even watched the movie, let alone owned a copy - that and the original boat ride was nothing special]
People talk about "the big picture", but really Frozen is anything but. It's a symptom of the situation, not a major deal unto itself. Unless it's razed and redone from scratch, Maelstrom will always be a minor attraction and any changes to it (for better or worse, this includes the non-Frozen proposed upgrade) will be minor for the park as a whole. If people really want to get upset, complain about the fact that overlays are seen as a good enough substitute for new experiences at Epcot, and that Disney thinks building food boths is more valuable to WS than Mt. Fuji, the Matterhorn or new countries.
Epcot: Where Dinner is Served
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Unless the bottom completely falls out of the interest in the film, the new ride will just help reinforce present views that minimal invest is best for Walt Disney World.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I meant within the context of WS. If the Frozen makeover wasn't happening, some new ride would not suddenly get built in another country.