The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Is being a disney fan the half step between those two things?
So you're saying that the fact that I admire and support the idea of an actual once live person (Walt Disney if you haven't figured that out) and enjoy what he created in his mind and built from scratch is the same thing as having a somewhat questionable love affair with a pen and ink drawn character that never existed and does a make-believe number of super human things that didn't actually happen.

Before you say it, I know that Mickey Mouse is a pen and ink character that never really existed, but, most of us are fans of an actual existing entity in our world... The Disney Parks. Mr. Mouse is just a small part of it. One of them built by a remarkable human being and, even 50 years after his death, continues to be inspired by him and his concepts covering almost the world now. Tell me when superman ever did such a thing. The fans you are talking about are obsessed with fantasy and escapism of a totally imaginary nature. Disney fans are fans of a brilliant concept that continues to this day.

The Frozen change isn't so much about taking out the boat ride, it is about it being a FUNDAMENTAL shift in the way things have been done in the World Showcase, and the entire mission of the world showcase, and in what it could mean for the future.

Aladdin ride in Morrocco, Lion King for Africa, etc etc,

changing the focus from the countries themselves, to being a focus on whats hot now.
That ship sailed when Donald Duck landed in Mexico.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Spirited Weekend Musings:

Well, nothing like waiting on a real life autopsy to do one on the recent fan community hysterics. But I would be remiss if I didn't thank all if you for the kind words and notes during a very crappy period. We got some crazies here to be sure, but at least they are nice crazies. And classy ones.

First, since I awoke to it in print this morning, let's talk about Soup & Salad Sandra's story on Frozen at EPCOT. I am sure she thinks it was fair and balanced. I am sure Celebration Place still feels like they were viciously and unfairly attacked by the evil Sentinel. And I am sure that every Lifestyler quoted in it will attempt (laughably) to use their presence in it to push their significance to Disney.

The story, which ran with the headline ''Epcot moves from culture to cartoons" (the most hard-hitting theme) here in SoFl., was largely written from the conclusion that Disney was just giving people what they wanted and that was a good thing. That's not how a truly fair and balanced piece should be structured, even if it is common in journalism today.

The story fell into the same potholes that the fan community has since word started leaking of this earlier in the year.

Look, you can think this is the greatest thing in the world, the worst thing, something in between or not gives damn at all. But you don't get to go change the rules for what should be on the menu in a given park just because it is easy, lazy and convenient to do so. You know, like Disney doing the easy, lazy and convenient thing by sticking in Frozen and then trying to contrive any backstory or press release that explains it away.

Frozen is going into Norway not because the film was (fill this part of my post in with some blather talking about the landscapes, culture and natural beauty of Norway serving as inspiration and whatever you come up with will likely make as much sense as what Disney has) ... Nope, Frozen is going into Norway because why spend hundreds of millions of dollars on creating something new at either MK or whatever they call the Studios park in a few years, both places where it would fit, when you can spend well under $100 million on replacing an attraction at a park that is desperate for something new that isn't the $6 ' sample' of the year at Food and Wine 2014?

At the risk of sounding like my little pal the Epcot Explorer, the thematic integrity disintegrates into chaos when you try and rewrite the mission statement of a park little by little. I was at EPCOT Center when it opened and have been there annually many times annually since. When it opened there was no presence of Disney characters at all. None. Except for on some merchandise at the Centorium. The only characters were Figment and Dreamfinder. And it was like that for years. Indeed, when Disney foamheads came to EPCOT, they weren't everywhere and they didn't overpower. They had a character bus. They'd dress in funky spacey outfits in FW. Maybe they'd be part of a show at America Gardens. But they complimented what existed. They didn't clash (you know, like the Marvel BRAND does with Disney no matter how hard it makes Bob Iger).

You can talk until you no longer have a voice or type until you break the crappy keypad on your new iPhone6 and you still won't be able to come up with a rational reason for why bringing toons to the World Showcase in such a blatant money-grubbing fashion is somehow good and the right choice. Sure, you can like it. You can defend it based on your opinion. But you can't defend it based upon the ethos (God, I am sounding like a cross between EE and Fidel's Little Bro Andy) that created the place. You can,t because it fundamentally goes against everything WS was about. And whether you liked Maelstrom, hated it or were ambivalent about it also isn't the point.

Something either fits or it doesn't-

One of WDW's biggest problems, and it has plenty as it becomes middle aged, is an identity crisis. We touch upon it here in so many threads from recreating DD yet again and what should or shouldn't be there to the proliferation of DVC to upcharge events ... It's sorta like the 19-year-old fresh faced farm boy from Kansas that comes to WDW to come out and see who he really is. Except WDW really doesn't know what it is or what it is supposed to be in the 21st century. There is no cohesion. No vision. Nothing but crappy branded merchandise that links the giant resort. ....So, instead of committing to visions, to identities for WDW as a whole and the individual parks on their own, Disney has done the cheap, easy, lazy and convenient ... If it has something to do with a Disney BRAND, franchise or IP, then it belongs anywhere and everywhere.

Hey, let's be honest, the vast majority of WDW fans today were certainly not fans in the 70s, most not in the 80s either, and a large part were just getting their feet wet with Disney in the 90s (even if they have books, blogs or podcasts today). They believe that if Disney puts something in a park, then that is enough to say it belongs. Forget about John Hench, Herb Ryman, Marc Davis. Marty Sklar still shows up at D23 events, so he must agree with what the WDC is doing, right?

Of course, Guardians of the Galaxy belongs anywhere ... And Sofia the First ... And Yoda's Tatooine Review Dinner Show and ... Toon Princesses belting out Let it Go in what was supposed to be a pavilion about the culture, history and people of Norway. I am sure that 19-year-old farm boy will be singing his way through it and that's what's important, right?

Disney got where it did by giving people what they asked for, right?

You do realize how wrong that statement is, don't you? You do realize that none of the most amazing things Disney has created would have ever happened by ''giving people what they asked for''?

Disney, in Orlando, is becoming like Subway. Bland and boring, but safe, and the exact same everywhere.

Going back to Sandra's story, one can only wonder why she never bothered to look at old copies of her newspaper (I have them) from 1982 and read about what World Showcase was about and write a story about why Disney has decided to move away and bastardize that vision. She might have asked why Disney is pitching $500 million Frozen projects in Asia that are fully thought out while shoehorning a cheap (yes, $75 million is cheap) overlay into a place it doesn't belong. She might want to walk back her statement that kids learn about transportation in 20 minutes on their toys, so they need Tron Track so they don,t need ADD meds. But ultimately, it wouldn't' matter. Until there is a major housecleaning at the company, this is simply what will continue to happen.

From Bob, Tom and Jay down to Glendale over to TDO ... Time to bring in the industrial strength enemas.

BTW, I heard that @ScarlettAshley1 dropped in. I would hoped you treated her well and that she'll be around from time to time. I'd like to hear her perspective ..
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How the **** does TDO not think of the money that could be made if they built a Frozen E ticket and a Frozen dining experience INSIDE Elsa's castle?! They would immediately see returning profits. TDO must be the stupidest group of executives on this planet

It is all about spending as little as humanly possible and making as much as possible off that minimal investment.

Look for lots of 'projections' (fancy word for screens) in this attraction.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
OK, so I see I have 49,888 likes here ... And 8 is a very lucky number in my second home of China, so I am going to take that as a good sign considering how crappy the last few weeks have been.

BTW, is it true that @marni1971 is at WDW now? Those crazy UKers ... Only they could appreciate Florida in September (only 4-6 weeks of summer to go!)
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
It is all about spending as little as humanly possible and making as much as possible off that minimal investment.

Look for lots of 'projections' (fancy word for screens) in this attraction.

Maelstrom, sorry, 'Arrendele', is going to have more HD screens than a Best Buy by the time they've finished, and all playing clips from the Frozen Blu-Ray too, also just like a Best Buy.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
OK, so I see I have 49,888 likes here ... And 8 is a very lucky number in my second home of China, so I am going to take that as a good sign considering how crappy the last few weeks have been.

BTW, is it true that @marni1971 is at WDW now? Those crazy UKers ... Only they could appreciate Florida in September (only 4-6 weeks of summer to go!)

Yes. Yes he is.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Disney got where it did by giving people what they asked for, right?

You do realize how wrong that statement is, don't you? You do realize that none of the most amazing things Disney has created would have ever happened by ''giving people what they asked for''?

It's hopeless - exactly what you posted here a few like @lazyboy97o and I laid out for days in the Frozen thread and people simply don't care. They roll right into the traps and are gitty to do so. I had to walk away.. because its no longer ignorance of what made Disney great.. it's eager stupidity willing to close their eyes because they are so eager to get 'something' - they'll take anything and give Iger a slap on the back for doing so.
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
So you're saying that the fact that I admire and support the idea of an actual once live person (Walt Disney if you haven't figured that out) and enjoy what he created in his mind and built from scratch is the same thing as having a somewhat questionable love affair with a pen and ink drawn character that never existed and does a make-believe number of super human things that didn't actually happen.

Before you say it, I know that Mickey Mouse is a pen and ink character that never really existed, but, most of us are fans of an actual existing entity in our world... The Disney Parks. Mr. Mouse is just a small part of it. One of them built by a remarkable human being and, even 50 years after his death, continues to be inspired by him and his concepts covering almost the world now. Tell me when superman ever did such a thing. The fans you are talking about are obsessed with fantasy and escapism of a totally imaginary nature. Disney fans are fans of a brilliant concept that continues to this day.


That ship sailed when Donald Duck landed in Mexico.
If he could make the same outlandish comment that being a comic book fan was like being into bronies I was making an exaggeration that being a disney fan was the same thing. Though I guess I need to crank the sarcasm machine up next time. Throw in a couple of these:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:. Both if not all fanbses have their weird and creepy fans who take things way to far, that's a given.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Frozen is going into Norway not because the film was (fill this part of my post in with some blather talking about the landscapes, culture and natural beauty of Norway serving as inspiration and whatever you come up with will likely make as much sense as what Disney has) ...

I agree with much of what you said overall, but folks who would know a heck of a lot better than you or I - like actual Norwegians or experts on Norway - have made pretty eloquent cases otherwise. It's beyond "landscapes" and such. For example -

Norwegian Connections in Frozen

Where is Arendelle?


Hey, would I rather get a huge attraction somewhere else? Sure. But I also am not going to cry and moan about the loss of Epcot over it. To be honest - I'll miss Maelstrom, but I don't think this is a tragedy, either. I truly get all that is actually behind the furor, I just think a lot of it is being focused on this one thing and it's being used as a punching bag by folks who would rather Disney not touch WS than do anything new there that they don't like. Disney still sucks donkey doo, we all know that - they are cheap, etc. - but I think the furor is misdirected, as culturally - the loss of entertainment is a much larger blow than this, by many magnitudes - but folks have their lasers out for anything Frozen or characters when in fact they have been doing this "creep" since 1985 since they started the character bus going around WS.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Spirited Weekend Musings:

Well, nothing like waiting on a real life autopsy to do one on the recent fan community hysterics. But I would be remiss if I didn't thank all if you for the kind words and notes during a very crappy period. We got some crazies here to be sure, but at least they are nice crazies. And classy ones.

First, since I awoke to it in print this morning, let's talk about Soup & Salad Sandra's story on Frozen at EPCOT. I am sure she thinks it was fair and balanced. I am sure Celebration Place still feels like they were viciously and unfairly attacked by the evil Sentinel. And I am sure that every Lifestyler quoted in it will attempt (laughably) to use their presence in it to push their significance to Disney.

The story, which ran with the headline ''Epcot moves from culture to cartoons" (the most hard-hitting theme) here in SoFl., was largely written from the conclusion that Disney was just giving people what they wanted and that was a good thing. That's not how a truly fair and balanced piece should be structured, even if it is common in journalism today.

The story fell into the same potholes that the fan community has since word started leaking of this earlier in the year.

Look, you can think this is the greatest thing in the world, the worst thing, something in between or not gives **** at all. But you don't get to go change the rules for what should be on the menu in a given park just because it is easy, lazy and convenient to do so. You know, like Disney doing the easy, lazy and convenient thing by sticking in Frozen and then trying to contrive any backstory or press release that explains it away.

Frozen is going into Norway not because the film was (fill this part of my post in with some blather talking about the landscapes, culture and natural beauty of Norway serving as inspiration and whatever you come up with will likely make as much sense as what Disney has) ... Nope, Frozen is going into Norway because why spend hundreds of millions of dollars on creating something new at either MK or whatever they call the Studios park in a few years, both places where it would fit, when you can spend well under $100 million on replacing an attraction at a park that is desperate for something new that isn't the $6 ' sample' of the year at Food and Wine 2014?

At the risk of sounding like my little pal the Epcot Explorer, the thematic integrity disintegrates into chaos when you try and rewrite the mission statement of a park little by little. I was at EPCOT Center when it opened and have been there annually many times annually since. When it opened there was no presence of Disney characters at all. None. Except for on some merchandise at the Centorium. The only characters were Figment and Dreamfinder. And it was like that for years. Indeed, when Disney foamheads came to EPCOT, they weren't everywhere and they didn't overpower. They had a character bus. They'd dress in funky spacey outfits in FW. Maybe they'd be part of a show at America Gardens. But they complimented what existed. They didn't clash (you know, like the Marvel BRAND does with Disney no matter how hard it makes Bob Iger).

You can talk until you no longer have a voice or type until you break the crappy keypad on your new iPhone6 and you still won't be able to come up with a rational reason for why bringing toons to the World Showcase in such a blatant money-grubbing fashion is somehow good and the right choice. Sure, you can like it. You can defend it based on your opinion. But you can't defend it based upon the ethos (God, I am sounding like a cross between EE and Fidel's Little Bro Andy) that created the place. You can,t because it fundamentally goes against everything WS was about. And whether you liked Maelstrom, hated it or were ambivalent about it also isn't the point.

Something either fits or it doesn't-

One of WDW's biggest problems, and it has plenty as it becomes middle aged, is an identity crisis. We touch upon it here in so many threads from recreating DD yet again and what should or shouldn't be there to the proliferation of DVC to upcharge events ... It's sorta like the 19-year-old fresh faced farm boy from Kansas that comes to WDW to come out and see who he really is. Except WDW really doesn't know what it is or what it is supposed to be in the 21st century. There is no cohesion. No vision. Nothing but crappy branded merchandise that links the giant resort. ....So, instead of committing to visions, to identities for WDW as a whole and the individual parks on their own, Disney has done the cheap, easy, lazy and convenient ... If it has something to do with a Disney BRAND, franchise or IP, then it belongs anywhere and everywhere.

Hey, let's be honest, the vast majority of WDW fans today were certainly not fans in the 70s, most not in the 80s either, and a large part were just getting their feet wet with Disney in the 90s (even if they have books, blogs or podcasts today). They believe that if Disney puts something in a park, then that is enough to say it belongs. Forget about John Hench, Herb Ryman, Marc Davis. Marty Sklar still shows up at D23 events, so he must agree with what the WDC is doing, right?

Of course, Guardians of the Galaxy belongs anywhere ... And Sofia the First ... And Yoda's Tatooine Review Dinner Show and ... Toon Princesses belting out Let it Go in what was supposed to be a pavilion about the culture, history and people of Norway. I am sure that 19-year-old farm boy will be singing his way through it and that's what's important, right?

Disney got where it did by giving people what they asked for, right?

You do realize how wrong that statement is, don't you? You do realize that none of the most amazing things Disney has created would have ever happened by ''giving people what they asked for''?

Disney, in Orlando, is becoming like Subway. Bland and boring, but safe, and the exact same everywhere.

Going back to Sandra's story, one can only wonder why she never bothered to look at old copies of her newspaper (I have them) from 1982 and read about what World Showcase was about and write a story about why Disney has decided to move away and bastardize that vision. She might have asked why Disney is pitching $500 million Frozen projects in Asia that are fully thought out while shoehorning a cheap (yes, $75 million is cheap) overlay into a place it doesn't belong. She might want to walk back her statement that kids learn about transportation in 20 minutes on their toys, so they need Tron Track so they don,t need ADD meds. But ultimately, it wouldn't' matter. Until there is a major housecleaning at the company, this is simply what will continue to happen.

From Bob, Tom and Jay down to Glendale over to TDO ... Time to bring in the industrial strength enemas.

BTW, I heard that @ScarlettAshley1 dropped in. I would hoped you treated her well and that she'll be around from time to time. I'd like to hear her perspective ..

Well said, and i agree with Spirit here.
Identity crisis indeed. Placement and purpose seem to be afterthoughts today at WDW.

If you visited WDW back when there were only TWO Parks, you would be utterly stunned at the differences in both the Corporate attitude towards the Florida Property and the quality of the experiences to be had within said Property.

It is near impossible for someone who never had the chance to experience the WDW Resort back in the late 70s/early 80s understand what it was really like.
 

FigmentForver96

Well-Known Member
Well said, and i agree with Spirit here.
Identity crisis indeed. Placement and purpose seem to be afterthoughts today at WDW.

If you visited WDW back when there were only TWO Parks, you would be utterly stunned at the differences in both the Corporate attitude towards them and the quality of the experiences to be had in them.

It is near impossible for someone who never had the chance to experience the WDW Resort back in the late 70s/early 80s understand what it was really like.

Back when they actually cared about the park. You could go almost every year and was guaranteed to see something new or redone at the parks. You NEVER waited years for a small land or ride to be built, because they were on their ball game at that point trying to make the best theme park experience possible.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Well said, and i agree with Spirit here.
Identity crisis indeed. Placement and purpose seem to be afterthoughts today at WDW.

If you visited WDW back when there were only TWO Parks, you would be utterly stunned at the differences in both the Corporate attitude towards the Florida Property and the quality of the experiences to be had within said Property.

It is near impossible for someone who never had the chance to experience the WDW Resort back in the late 70s/early 80s understand what it was really like.
If only I had a time machine. Just one of the Disney related things I would want to do with it (I would also want to personally shake hands with Walt). Many other things not at all related to Disney to do as well, way too much to list here.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Theme parks are fun to visit. I've been to WDW dozens of times, worked there as a CM for a short time, etc. Admittedly, I haven't set foot in the parks since 2011. So I've spent my fair share of time in the parks over the years. This isn't directed at anyone in particular.

That said, I just don't get the outcry of the fan community. I wouldn't shed a tear if any attraction in any park was closed. You could replace Spaceship Earth with a hot dog stand, and I wouldn't protest it.

A letter-writing campaign to protest the closure of Maelstrom? My honest response to that wouldn't get past the filter here. I think of the news this week -- a presidential speech on yet more U.S. military involvement in the Middle East, the anniversary of 9/11, etc. -- and I just shake my head at the theme park fan community.

This fan community is an honest-to-God dissertation and publishable manuscript for some aspiring psychology graduate student somewhere.

All of the objections to Frozen/Maelstrom -- Frozen "breaks the theme" of World Showcase, Maelstrom is a "great ride" that we're losing, etc. -- it's just so over-the-top and petty. I can understand if you're in the design industry that you might have a strong opinion about this change. It's no different than anyone else having an opinion about their professional industry.

Most of the of the people in the fan community, however, aren't part of that industry. In the words of Oingo Boingo, they're "on the outside looking in." I can't imagine caring so much about the purity of Epcot's theme or the integrity of World Showcase that I would contact WDW to register my complaint that Maelstrom is going away. Anyone typing "the purity of Epcot's theme" should be harshly fined. (I'll include myself in that.)

I think this is the first time I've posted anything on Frozen/Maelstrom, but seeing all the breathless complaining today just makes me think.

Earlier this week, Spirit was talking about the final stages of a relative's illness. I saw someone today write that they wish Disney had given them more advance notice so that they could visit and "say goodbye to Maelstrom." Someday, you would hope, the fan community would realize all of these rides (and indeed, the parks, too!) will all eventually be shuttered... The people are what matter. And isn't that supposed to be the "theme" of Epcot?

I both like and dislike your post strongly, my friend. Probably I am as conflcted as you are over the Tangled toilets taking the place of our beloved quail tile facilities.

Life is more important than anything we are going to chat about here. Believe me, I know that. I wasn't joking about awaiting autopsy results.

But we are here because we all are fans of WDW (some of us more so, some of us the Disney BRAND, some theme parks in general, some of us are simply entertainment junkies). It doesn't make something wrong with us that we enjoy this (yes, I work in media and entertainment, but, no, I have never worked in the theme park business despite knowing many folks and even being hit on by a Disney exec or two!):D;):greedy:

The world is falling apart, but does that mean we can't enjoy life in the very brief window we have for living it? I have made some wonderful amazing friendships due to my time online (and here on MAGIC) by arguing about the thematic integrity of the World Showcase!:eek::D:) I suppose I could have used the time to devote my energies to Habitat For Humanity (oh wait, they only want volunteers that they hand pick so no, I couldn''t be building houses for the homeless).

It sorta reminds me of 9/11 and how for a week I barely left my TV, let alone house, and all I did was watch the horrific coverage. And then one night I switched channels and saw Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory and I watched Gene Wilder and I smiled and I laughed and the next day I showered and shaved and left the house. The next weekend I was at WDW.

98 percent of what is on the Internet is likely a total waste of your time, is only good for another one percent , so what does that leave?

I am passionate about EPCOT Center because it truly inspired me. The technology was amazing. And all of those countries? I hadn't been to Los Angeles or the Grand Canyon yet. Those nations were amazing for me to get a true taste of, even Disneyfied (that isn't the same as being puked on by any of Disney's BRANDS of today). I have now been to every country in WS, but two. ... So when I see Disney systematically Separating the place because it is the cheap and easy and lazy thing to do, it bothers me. I may sound like a total Disney geek, but EPCOT inspired me in so many ways. So many ways that Frozen or a $79 after hours snack party with dancing (naturally) will never do.

So, I want to push an agenda here that is distinctly anti-current Disney management. It can (and does) make a difference in the real world (just ask Georgie K if he has to hold one in when I start suggesting there's more to Golden Oak than meets the eye here and to those behind the scenes).

Is it life or death? Nah.

But it's like watching the NFL, restoring old motorcycles or painting on the weekends ... It's a fun hobby that I am passionate about that is just a small piece of who I am.

So, King Poopyhead, stop ragging on those of us who care about the thematic integrity of EPCOT's Norway pavilion. It's not like we're like those fanbois who rub their privates up against EPCOT wall carpeting until they bleed. C'mon. They're just the minions I keep chained in the closet (many of them are happiest there anyway, ya know?):D:devilish::cool:
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
Spirited Weekend Musings:

Well, nothing like waiting on a real life autopsy to do one on the recent fan community hysterics. But I would be remiss if I didn't thank all if you for the kind words and notes during a very crappy period. We got some crazies here to be sure, but at least they are nice crazies. And classy ones.

First, since I awoke to it in print this morning, let's talk about Soup & Salad Sandra's story on Frozen at EPCOT. I am sure she thinks it was fair and balanced. I am sure Celebration Place still feels like they were viciously and unfairly attacked by the evil Sentinel. And I am sure that every Lifestyler quoted in it will attempt (laughably) to use their presence in it to push their significance to Disney.

The story, which ran with the headline ''Epcot moves from culture to cartoons" (the most hard-hitting theme) here in SoFl., was largely written from the conclusion that Disney was just giving people what they wanted and that was a good thing. That's not how a truly fair and balanced piece should be structured, even if it is common in journalism today.

The story fell into the same potholes that the fan community has since word started leaking of this earlier in the year.

Look, you can think this is the greatest thing in the world, the worst thing, something in between or not gives **** at all. But you don't get to go change the rules for what should be on the menu in a given park just because it is easy, lazy and convenient to do so. You know, like Disney doing the easy, lazy and convenient thing by sticking in Frozen and then trying to contrive any backstory or press release that explains it away.

Frozen is going into Norway not because the film was (fill this part of my post in with some blather talking about the landscapes, culture and natural beauty of Norway serving as inspiration and whatever you come up with will likely make as much sense as what Disney has) ... Nope, Frozen is going into Norway because why spend hundreds of millions of dollars on creating something new at either MK or whatever they call the Studios park in a few years, both places where it would fit, when you can spend well under $100 million on replacing an attraction at a park that is desperate for something new that isn't the $6 ' sample' of the year at Food and Wine 2014?

At the risk of sounding like my little pal the Epcot Explorer, the thematic integrity disintegrates into chaos when you try and rewrite the mission statement of a park little by little. I was at EPCOT Center when it opened and have been there annually many times annually since. When it opened there was no presence of Disney characters at all. None. Except for on some merchandise at the Centorium. The only characters were Figment and Dreamfinder. And it was like that for years. Indeed, when Disney foamheads came to EPCOT, they weren't everywhere and they didn't overpower. They had a character bus. They'd dress in funky spacey outfits in FW. Maybe they'd be part of a show at America Gardens. But they complimented what existed. They didn't clash (you know, like the Marvel BRAND does with Disney no matter how hard it makes Bob Iger).

You can talk until you no longer have a voice or type until you break the crappy keypad on your new iPhone6 and you still won't be able to come up with a rational reason for why bringing toons to the World Showcase in such a blatant money-grubbing fashion is somehow good and the right choice. Sure, you can like it. You can defend it based on your opinion. But you can't defend it based upon the ethos (God, I am sounding like a cross between EE and Fidel's Little Bro Andy) that created the place. You can,t because it fundamentally goes against everything WS was about. And whether you liked Maelstrom, hated it or were ambivalent about it also isn't the point.

Something either fits or it doesn't-

One of WDW's biggest problems, and it has plenty as it becomes middle aged, is an identity crisis. We touch upon it here in so many threads from recreating DD yet again and what should or shouldn't be there to the proliferation of DVC to upcharge events ... It's sorta like the 19-year-old fresh faced farm boy from Kansas that comes to WDW to come out and see who he really is. Except WDW really doesn't know what it is or what it is supposed to be in the 21st century. There is no cohesion. No vision. Nothing but crappy branded merchandise that links the giant resort. ....So, instead of committing to visions, to identities for WDW as a whole and the individual parks on their own, Disney has done the cheap, easy, lazy and convenient ... If it has something to do with a Disney BRAND, franchise or IP, then it belongs anywhere and everywhere.

Hey, let's be honest, the vast majority of WDW fans today were certainly not fans in the 70s, most not in the 80s either, and a large part were just getting their feet wet with Disney in the 90s (even if they have books, blogs or podcasts today). They believe that if Disney puts something in a park, then that is enough to say it belongs. Forget about John Hench, Herb Ryman, Marc Davis. Marty Sklar still shows up at D23 events, so he must agree with what the WDC is doing, right?

Of course, Guardians of the Galaxy belongs anywhere ... And Sofia the First ... And Yoda's Tatooine Review Dinner Show and ... Toon Princesses belting out Let it Go in what was supposed to be a pavilion about the culture, history and people of Norway. I am sure that 19-year-old farm boy will be singing his way through it and that's what's important, right?

Disney got where it did by giving people what they asked for, right?

You do realize how wrong that statement is, don't you? You do realize that none of the most amazing things Disney has created would have ever happened by ''giving people what they asked for''?

Disney, in Orlando, is becoming like Subway. Bland and boring, but safe, and the exact same everywhere.

Going back to Sandra's story, one can only wonder why she never bothered to look at old copies of her newspaper (I have them) from 1982 and read about what World Showcase was about and write a story about why Disney has decided to move away and bastardize that vision. She might have asked why Disney is pitching $500 million Frozen projects in Asia that are fully thought out while shoehorning a cheap (yes, $75 million is cheap) overlay into a place it doesn't belong. She might want to walk back her statement that kids learn about transportation in 20 minutes on their toys, so they need Tron Track so they don,t need ADD meds. But ultimately, it wouldn't' matter. Until there is a major housecleaning at the company, this is simply what will continue to happen.

From Bob, Tom and Jay down to Glendale over to TDO ... Time to bring in the industrial strength enemas.

BTW, I heard that @ScarlettAshley1 dropped in. I would hoped you treated her well and that she'll be around from time to time. I'd like to hear her perspective ..

This is by far one of my favorite posts of yours in a LONG time. It sums up the identity crisis that most of WDW has been experiencing for quite some time. It's a shame we can't make it required reading for all WDC execs involved with Parks & Resorts. Unfortunately that still probably wouldn't make a difference as it's obvious these people have zero passion for the company, their job, or the product. Recent moves like Frozen in WS continue to make all of this painfully obvious.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Well said, and i agree with Spirit here.
Identity crisis indeed. Placement and purpose seem to be afterthoughts today at WDW.

If you visited WDW back when there were only TWO Parks, you would be utterly stunned at the differences in both the Corporate attitude towards the Florida Property and the quality of the experiences to be had within said Property.

It is near impossible for someone who never had the chance to experience the WDW Resort back in the late 70s/early 80s understand what it was really like.
So why is everyone trying so hard to do so. Whatever identity that the Disney Co. currently imposes on any of the parks are their prerogative. They decide what direction it will take and we have only one control. That control has been mentioned over and over. Any of us can decide that since it has wandered away from the 40 year old intent then none of us should support it with our money, if it offends us that much.

But to think that WE define the intent of a theme park throughout the years is just crazy. We do not. They give us what they want and we either accept it or we move on to find something that does agree with our thoughts. At this point, personally, I still love the original EPCOT concept, but, that disappeared a long time ago. The change resulted from a different outlook and opinion of what we like, coupled with economic factors that made it so that the return on investment asked of the sponsors, no longer was worth the investment. Simple fact of life! I wish I was 25 again, but, I have to accept that I am not now nor ever will be again.
 

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