The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[PeterAlt]

From a long-time DL person who finally landed in Florida last year, it was interesting to see the sheer SIZE of MK and the overall layout but the differences were immediately evident. The lack of trees and greenery (hanging flower baskets, shrubs, etc) on Main Street is the more glaring quickly followed by the huge castle which has this giant open ...courtyard, basically, in front of it and a stage plopped in front that matches absolutely nothing and makes no sense for it's existence if there is not a show going on at the exact time you find yourself in front of it.

I understand why MSUSA is so wide, but that also takes away from the charm of DL MSUSA, of feeling like a tight knit little town and you're literally walking down Main Street, USA. At MK, it feels like a wide expanse of concrete with no benches nor shade and there's ...almost the feeling or urgency to walk through it quickly. It's not as welcoming as DL is.

That said, there are some pluses MK has. I really like MKs castle more than DL, but I love the way DL s castle opens into a new world, whereas MK ...I didn't even realize you were able to walk through it. But going around the side, it doesn't have that one-two punch of entering a new realm. Size isn't always a good thing.

Words can't express how much I love the peoplemover, and miss it at DL so, so much.

I also liked splash mountain at MK over DL. Then again, I saw it a month after a fantastic refurb, so there's that.


Lopping this ridiculous post back to yours, I think you would be surprised what a first timer has to say about wdw. There's a lot of glamour of the parks, but the reality is, there's always comparisons and...well, they're not always pretty. People notice flaws whether they've been there a thousand times or just once (the smell of the monorails will never, I fear, leave my nostrils) and whether they've read Internet forums or not.

I think I had a leg up compared to someone who has never read up on wdw, and just went in basically blind. But I research the hell out of everything...vacations, computers, my next cable package, before buying. I sorta knew what I was getting into, however it had less of an impact because it was so new and fresh, as a first timer.

Even still, you learn quickly.

Another advantage the MK had over DL is that attractions are not literally on top of each other, like they are at DL. At DL, just look at the Adventurelaand/Frontierland/New Orleans Square area. Here, you have Indiana Jones, Jungle Cruise, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, PotC, and Haunted Mansion all budding heads at each other in very close proximity. If you look at a satellite image of the MK, you will see that there's plenty of land for the MK to grow. It's just a shame that every single ride (except Splash Mountain and Haunted Mansion) at DL are much improved over their MK counterparts. I used to say that PotC in DL was light years ahead of the MK version, but recent upgrades to the MK version has closed the gap the best they could do without adding addition trackage to the ride. The recent update to Space Mountain at the MK was an improvement to how it was (minus the queue which is now worse) but leaves the DL version still light years ahead in terms of ride condition and quality, show elements, and special effects. IASW at the MK is an embarrassment and needs to be torn down completely. The new ending of DL's BTMRR is major and should be done with the MK's version. Just start by bringing these rides up to DL's standards and follow this with new attractions and our MK could easily be the flagship Disney MK park.

Just looking at the satellite imagery of the MK, Fire Mountain fits nicely on top of Jungle Cruise (with Jungle Cruise becoming a mostly indoors special effects laden dark ride type of ride with previews of other Adventureland attractions like how the WEDway Peoplemover is to Tomorrowland). There's an empty track of land to the southwest of Jungle Cruise that could easily be home to an Indiana Jones clone (with access to it via an entrance tunnel through Fire Mountain or under Jungle Cruise).

But it takes "vision" by Disney management and executives to understand this.

 

[BrerJon]

I mean the other parking space, the backstage one with real cars in it. With space like that why remove anything? Just add. I'll edit my original post so it's more clear.

It's probably a top management parking area. Can't see the high-up execs wanting to join the lackeys on the bus from West Clock for the sake of improving the guest experience.

Actually what am I talking about, TDO execs don't even go near the parks most of the time.

 

[PeterAlt]

It's probably a top management parking area. Can't see the high-up execs wanting to join the lackeys on the bus from West Clock for the sake of improving the guest experience.

Actually what am I talking about, TDO execs don't even go near the parks most of the time.

How is it that there are two entirely different corporate cultures between TDO and TDA when both groups are owned by the same parent company? When did the two become so DISimilar? Can't the parent company force TDO to conform to the same philosophy as TDA?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Looks like Scott Adams had WDW in mind when he composed today's Dilbert.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The numbers suggest change is happening, and it's not the kind of change that corporate Disney wants.

No amount of Frozen meet & greets will bring 'guests' to the parks if they no longer can afford WDW.

WDW's attendance over the last few years was propped up by a South American market that's now in an economic crisis and, before that, by discounts that reduced WDW's gross margins to record lows.

Today's WDW prices are driving people away. WDW's 'cheapest' base tickets are up 28% since 2010. Family income simply hasn't kept pace.

Based on historical data, WDW attendance should be up anywhere from 5% to 10% this year. Revenue should be up well into the teens, perhaps even breaking 20%.

Instead, WDW is seeing an anemic 1-to-2% attendance increase and is struggling to reach double-digit revenue growth.

I agree, but, I would like to take the emphasis off of increased ticket prices as a large part of the problem. A factor, for sure, but a small one. The cost of everything else is what has driven attendance growth downward. Hell, I can afford tickets without a blink, it's getting there, staying there and eating there that are presently killing the dog.

In my mind, if anyone can say that even a $100.00 per day that this isn't one of the most basically inexpensive venues of entertainment out there, what is? From opening to closing, constant entertainment, in the form of attractions, shows, parades, etc., all for one price. Four, count'um FOUR parks to choose from. Every possible means of transportation within the resort covered under that cost. Coupled with how few actually pay that day rate (yes, I know that some do pay that, but, seriously how many?) If anything is killing them it is the greed from their desire to quickly capture every nickle that anyone might bring with them.

Even though, of course, it would affect it to a degree, if they gave out free admission to the parks for anyone staying onsite, how much would that realistically change the cost of going there to a level that all could afford?

 

[aladdin2007]

I mean the other parking space, the backstage one with real cars in it. With space like that why remove anything? Just add. I'll edit my original post so it's more clear.

Ive always wondered who exactly rates to get to park in that area? All the park managers? Or just certain ones etc?

 

[cjkeating]

Perhaps. There's also this backstage parking space they could put to use that seems big enough for a major ride.
View attachment 65004
If Star Wars can work in the Tomorrowlands elsewhere, Guardians should be no problem in Magic Kingdom (except of course for TDO who's averse to spending).

I am sure this would annoy a minority but getting rid of the Speedway looks like a beyond obvious choice for an expansion.

 

[marni1971]

Can't the parent company force TDO to conform to the same philosophy as TDA?

They've tried when they've had to.

Phil Holmes ruining of the 2009 Space Mountain refurb woke them up to what was happening. Since then they've forced the issue on Star Tours, NFL and Avland. But so long as the money keeps coming in and innovative ways are invented to screw the guest even more to cover up the huge cost overrun of MyMagic there's a status quo. After all, TDO management are paid their huge salaries and bonuses to run the place so Burbank doesn't have to.

 

[marni1971]

Perhaps. There's also this backstage parking space they could put to use that seems big enough for a major ride.
View attachment 65004
If Star Wars can work in the Tomorrowlands elsewhere, Guardians should be no problem in Magic Kingdom (except of course for TDO who's averse to spending).

An ex partly guest area that was actually taken off the paying guest so managers would have more parking. Wonderful. And of course it removed the pesky stage shows they had to pay for. Obviously removing a live band and piping in the music wasn't enough money saved. Remember when both MK stage shows had actual real live musicians for every showing?

Anyway, if they wanted to keep their parking they could always utilise the expansion pad between the Cop and Skyway toilets. Imagine if we saw another berm - crossing attraction. I doubt we will again.

 

[danlb_2000]

Had an interesting conversation with a friend tonight, one who still frequents the DISBoards I abandoned years ago because it had become pixie dust central. Apparently even the owner over there has soured on WDW, taking them to task for the Villains Party debacle and the upcharge event at MNSSHP. That's huge. It feels like a sea change this year; they've found the breaking point where all but the fans they have on the payroll have said, "whoa, you've gone too far."

The DISBoards tend to be on the positive side, but I have listed to the podcast for while now and it is generally pretty balanced. They are not afraid to call out Disney, or and other Orlando park for that matter, when they don't like something. This is especially surprising because the people who do the podcast run an Orlando travel agency.

 

[PeterAlt]

They've tried when they've had to.

Phil Holmes ruining of the 2009 Space Mountain refurb woke them up to what was happening. Since then they've forced the issue on Star Tours, NFL and Avland. But so long as the money keeps coming in and innovative ways are invented to screw the guest even more to cover up the huge cost overrun of MyMagic there's a status quo. After all, TDO management are paid their huge salaries and bonuses to run the place so Burbank doesn't have to.

Can't they just relocate TDA people to Orlando and hope to stir things up that way?

 

[marni1971]

Can't they just relocate TDA people to Orlando and hope to stir things up that way?

If they don't think things are that bad why would they?

 

[bhg469]

An ex partly guest area that was actually taken off the paying guest so managers would have more parking. Wonderful. And of course it removed the pesky stage shows they had to pay for. Obviously removing a live band and piping in the music wasn't enough money saved. Remember when both MK stage shows had actual real live musicians for every showing?

Anyway, if they wanted to keep their parking they could always utilise the expansion pad between the Cop and Skyway toilets. Imagine if we saw another berm - crossing attraction. I doubt we will again.

This is what team doom and gloom is about. Hoping for the best but knowing it's an impossible dream, like more monorail lines.

 

[PeterAlt]

If they don't think things are that bad why would they?

Because things are too bad. You said it yourself when you said they've tried on occasions such as FLE.

 

[bhg469]

Because things are too bad. You said it yourself when you said they've tried on occasions such as FLE.

Things are bad for the guest, they're incredible for the almighty dollar, for the time being anyway. Disney is not going to change anything until they cannot sustain profitability short term anymore. If I understand @ParentsOf4 that will eventually happen.

 

[PeterAlt]

This is what team doom and gloom is about. Hoping for the best but knowing it's an impossible dream, like more monorail lines.

That's possible, but the will to do it isn't there. Actually, I was just reading this article comparing light rail to monorail and it made a good strong case for light rail as opposed to monorail. Not only is light rail a third less expensive to build and operate, but it accelerates 30% faster, resulting in more frequent trains and faster destination arrivals. Also, the capacity of a light rail train is much greater than monorail.

I've been converted to light rail. Disney needs to get their act together and start building light rail lines!

 

[PeterAlt]

Things are bad for the guest, they're incredible for the almighty dollar, for the time being anyway. Disney is not going to change anything until they cannot sustain profitability short term anymore. If I understand @ParentsOf4 that will eventually happen.

I certainly hope so!

 

[marni1971]

Because things are too bad. You said it yourself when you said they've tried on occasions such as FLE.

Me saying it and management saying it is chalk and cheese.

Until profits and gate clicks drop nothing major will happen.

And please leave the light rail discussions to some of your other unique threads.

 

[PeterAlt]

Me saying it and management saying it is chalk and cheese.

Until profits and gate clicks drop nothing major will happen.

Or until the new CEO takes charge.

 

[bhg469]

Me saying it and management saying it is chalk and cheese.

Until profits and gate clicks drop nothing major will happen.

And please leave the light rail discussions to some of your other unique threads.

I have never heard that phrase before, chalk and cheese? Made me chuckle.