The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Team Gloom - Does not believe the status quo is good enough anymore. They want attraction development and tangible new entertainment experiences.They want added attractions with few removals and barring that they want vastly superior additions when subtractions are made. This team wants attractions not meet and greets. Did I mention this team wants attractions? They have no problem pointing out short-comings.

Team Pixie Dust - This team thinks that while there may be room for improvement, everything is okay as it is. This team thinks if you can keep it clean and running even with diminishing or non-operational features, it's okay. This team is okay with attractions being removed and replaced with meet and greets. This team thinks meet and greets are attraction additions. This team doesn't like others pointing out short-comings of the thing they love.

Needless to say, both groups love WDW and the other Disney parks. They love it so much, they visit a fan website to participate in a forum. They will argue their point of view because the love Disney. Did I mention both groups love Disney?

A accurate division description.
I also see this as a accurate description of 'yesterday's Disney Coporate attitude' and 'today's Disney Corporate attitude' when it comes to the Theme Parks.


The first team describes the attitude of many of the people who used to be in Corporate positions of power within WD Productions/ TWDC who pushed for such things and fought battles for them to happen.
In several cases, because they did, they were sent away and are not longer around.
'The Disney of Yesterday' would fit into the first team.


The second team describes many of the people who are currently working for TWDC in Corporate positions of power and upper management in some key areas.
'The Disney of Today' is most certainly on the second team described above.

Do they both 'love Disney'..?
Sure.

'Yesterday's Disney' loved making amazing themed Guest experiences.
Yes, they liked to make money..but much of it was put right back into the Parks and it showed..as in brick n' mortar showed.
'Yesterday's Disney' was all about wowing people with quality, innovation, and top notch unique entertainment.

'Today's Disney' loves making a great quarter and having a rosey bottom line for Wall Street investors.
They love to make money ....but little of it is put back into the Parks, and if it is, does not show in a brick n' mortar sense.
'Today's Disney' is all about making maximine profit and minimum expense...and quality, innovation, and top notch unique entertainment somewhat suffer.
 
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Nubs70

Well-Known Member
A accurate division description.
I also see this as a accurate description of 'yesterday's Disney Coporate attitude' and 'today's Disney Corporate attitude' when it comes to the Theme Parks.


The first team describes the attitude of many of the people who used to be in Corporate positions of power within WD Productions/ TWDC who pushed for such things and fought battles for them to happen.
In several cases, because they did, they were sent away and are not longer around.
'The Disney of Yesterday' would fit into the first team.


The second team describes many of the people who are currently working for TWDC in Corporate positions of power and upper management in some key areas.
'The Disney of Today' is most certainly on the second team described above.

Do they both 'love Disney'..?
Sure.

'Yesterday's Disney' loved making amazing themed Guest experiences.
Yes, they liked to make money..but much of it was put right back into the Parks and it showed..as in brick n' mortar showed.
'Yesterday's Disney' was all about wowing people with quality, innovation, and top notch unique entertainment.

'Today's Disney' loves making a great quarter and having a rosey bottom line for Wall Street investors.
They love to make money ....but little of it is put back into the Parks, and if it is, does not show in a brick n' mortar sense.
'Today's Disney' is all about making maximine profit and minimum expense...and quality, innovation, and top notch unique entertainment somewhat suffer.
The problem with "Today's Disney" is that it is not sustainable. Given long enough, top line revenue will fall and the need for large scale renovation and additions will become manifest in order to regain top line revenue. However, based on bottom line "uber alles" operational philosophy, there will come a time where capital will not be authorized for renovations and additions. This will be the point of no return.

Question is are we quickly approaching that point?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
The problem with "Today's Disney" is that it is not sustainable. Given long enough, top line revenue will fall and the need for large scale renovation and additions will become manifest in order to regain top line revenue. However, based on bottom line "uber alles" operational philosophy, there will come a time where capital will not be authorized for renovations and additions. This will be the point of no return.

Question is are we quickly approaching that point?

That all depends on if guest attendance drops off.

I dont believe that the guests will always come.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
The problem with "Today's Disney" is that it is not sustainable. Given long enough, top line revenue will fall and the need for large scale renovation and additions will become manifest in order to regain top line revenue. However, based on bottom line "uber alles" operational philosophy, there will come a time where capital will not be authorized for renovations and additions. This will be the point of no return.

Question is are we quickly approaching that point?

Agree.
In some people's opinion, we have already reached the point you speak of.

There has been a few small projects/additions made , but nothing really major for some time with the exception of New Fantasyland..and even that is debatable in some opinions.
Many feel it could have been more, and was a addition that was not 'major' enough.

The behavior and actions the Company has done over the last couple of years seems to indicate there is something amiss.
Something not quite 'right' behind the scenes in the big offices.

To quote a metaphoric description of TWDC....said by a CM of yore....

"Disney is like a duck floating on top of the water.
The water looks calm, but just below the surface the duck's feet are moving like crazy to keep itself afloat!"
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
You would know more than I but I just feel like they are offering very little right now but still drawing crowds. You think that will end?

The global middle class is ever expanding as former developing countries get richer, and Walt Disney World is seen as a dream destination for many. More and more countries will send more and more people every year, and they won't have a clue that the resort is a shadow of its former self.

Attendance figures will grow and grow, even if Disney does nothing. When Avatar comes online, and any Star Wars stuff that may happen in the next decade, that will top up figures with lots of western guests returning after years of not bothering.

So basically yes, we all need attendance to drop to see some action, but I can't see it happening any time soon.

The only figure that can change is percentage of time spent on property. As the alternatives from Universal, I-Drive etc., get more and more irresistable, I think Disney will notice that people aren't as happy to spend two weeks Magical Expressing without going anywhere else anymore.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
I just posted what may just be my most controversial post ever. It touches on what we've been talking about here but explores another way of doing it than what has already been discussed. I posted it under Inagineering (because I know the mods will move it there any way) and entitled it "The Park Formerly Known as EPCOT Center". Either you're going to love it or hate it.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
You would know more than I but I just feel like they are offering very little right now but still drawing crowds. You think that will end?

They are offering very little new, but there are still many people who have never been to WDW or haven't been in years and they will go/return and lots of things that we all consider stale will be brand new and "magical" to them. They won't realize how many cuts occurred or what's missing. There are also lots of people who loved WDW in the past and haven't been in a while but are now having kids. They want their kids to experience it. Even though some things are stale to the parents it's all new and amazing to the kids. I know this is true first hand.

I think right now they are starting to lose repeat American visitors. The type of people who liked to go once a year or more frequently. It's just getting way too expensive. Those people are being mostly replaced by one time visitors and international guests.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Your teams are off. They are much more extreme than that.

Team Doom and Gloom: Dislikes anything new no matter what it is or at least finds a negative. WDW has gone to crap. TDO sucks. It's all because the pixie dusters accept everything and never complain.

Team Pixie Dust: loves everything new no matter what it is or at least they buy the company line on why it is good. Thinks WDW is great as is and getting better every day. They can't understand why the doom and gloomers would spend so much time and money at a place they hate or on an online forum about a place they hate.

There are about 5 people who post here who actually fit these descriptions (yes, I'm talking about you) and the rest of us are somewhere in the middle. It's probably just silly to even talk about.
I'm on neither team. I've always been a lone drummer and independent thinker. There are points that I agree with from both the teams you mentioned, but I don't find allegiance with either one of them.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Just so I/we can differentiate these teams, I propose outlining their platforms starting with the following definitions:

Team Gloom - Does not believe the status quo is good enough anymore. They want attraction development and tangible new entertainment experiences.They want added attractions with few removals and barring that they want vastly superior additions when subtractions are made. This team wants attractions not meet and greets. Did I mention this team wants attractions? They have no problem pointing out short-comings.

Team Pixie Dust - This team thinks that while there may be room for improvement, everything is okay as it is. This team thinks if you can keep it clean and running even with diminishing or non-operational features, it's okay. This team is okay with attractions being removed and replaced with meet and greets. This team thinks meet and greets are attraction additions. This team doesn't like others pointing out short-comings of the thing they love.

Needless to say, both groups love WDW and the other Disney parks. They love it so much, they visit a fan website to participate in a forum. They will argue their point of view because the love Disney. Did I mention both groups love Disney?
There are two basic groups of people who post here:

1. People who love the way WDW is.
2. People who love the way WDW was.

Those who love the way WDW is don't like to read criticism of their beloved parks.

Those who love the way WDW was want a return to WDW's glory days.

Neither group wants Iger's higher prices, quality cuts, or delayed attractions. :arghh:
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
The global middle class is ever expanding as former developing countries get richer, and Walt Disney World is seen as a dream destination for many. More and more countries will send more and more people every year, and they won't have a clue that the resort is a shadow of its former self.

Attendance figures will grow and grow, even if Disney does nothing. When Avatar comes online, and any Star Wars stuff that may happen in the next decade, that will top up figures with lots of western guests returning after years of not bothering.

So basically yes, we all need attendance to drop to see some action, but I can't see it happening any time soon.

The only figure that can change is percentage of time spent on property. As the alternatives from Universal, I-Drive etc., get more and more irresistable, I think Disney will notice that people aren't as happy to spend two weeks Magical Expressing without going anywhere else anymore.


No. It's not attendance anyone really cares about. It's revenue.

If revenue drops..... Then you'll see heads roll.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
There are two basic groups of people who post here:

1. People who love the way WDW is.
2. People who love the way WDW was.

Those who love the way WDW is don't like to read criticism of their beloved parks.

Those who love the way WDW was want a return to WDW's glory days.

Neither group wants Iger's higher prices, quality cuts, or delayed attractions. :arghh:
Who doesn't like Disney as it was and likes it as it is? A company which (before and during Eisner) was willing and had planned and prepared for monorail system expansion (or light rail) to a company unwilling to invest in proper maintenance of the current system to the point of decay that has already taken lives.

Eccentric as I may be about this issue, I am right.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Everything ends at some point.
All my best memories of anything were doing times that no longer exist and can't happen today. If you encounter a moment that makes you smile, enjoy it because one day - no matter what it is - whatever it is will end as well.

- A sobering lesson from life experience.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Let's hope it's the drought of good ideas.

Funny side story, my wife and I went to dinner with a couple. The my friends wife has never been to wdw, this has been the only reason in the past 2 years that I want to go. For some reason the thought of going with a first timer is still intriguing.
We went with another family on our last trip who were first timers. I think maybe the wife had been as a kid, but it was in the 80s. I had to bite my tongue a few times to stop from ruining their pixie dusted good thoughts. You people are rubbing off on me;). Ignorance sometimes really is bliss. One thing that was interesting is we did a few things that we would normally just skip because they really wanted to do it and I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed them. It was kinda fun being the "tour guide" too. I have a wealth of mostly useless WDW knowledge I could lay on them.
 

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