The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
The global middle class is ever expanding as former developing countries get richer, and Walt Disney World is seen as a dream destination for many. More and more countries will send more and more people every year, and they won't have a clue that the resort is a shadow of its former self.

Attendance figures will grow and grow, even if Disney does nothing. When Avatar comes online, and any Star Wars stuff that may happen in the next decade, that will top up figures with lots of western guests returning after years of not bothering.

So basically yes, we all need attendance to drop to see some action, but I can't see it happening any time soon.
The numbers suggest change is happening, and it's not the kind of change that corporate Disney wants.

No amount of Frozen meet & greets will bring 'guests' to the parks if they no longer can afford WDW.

WDW's attendance over the last few years was propped up by a South American market that's now in an economic crisis and, before that, by discounts that reduced WDW's gross margins to record lows.

Today's WDW prices are driving people away. WDW's 'cheapest' base tickets are up 28% since 2010. Family income simply hasn't kept pace.

Based on historical data, WDW attendance should be up anywhere from 5% to 10% this year. Revenue should be up well into the teens, perhaps even breaking 20%.

Instead, WDW is seeing an anemic 1-to-2% attendance increase and is struggling to reach double-digit revenue growth.

Iger’s P&R strategy has hamstrung WDW, smothering it exactly when it should be blooming.

Price hikes, quality cuts, and delayed investments are not the paths to healthy growth.

Eisner used to call Theme Park executives “monkeys” because, Eisner thought, running a theme park was so easy that even a monkey could do it.

When it comes to WDW, Iger and his brain trust have proved that Eisner was right.
 
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Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
No. It's not attendance anyone really cares about. It's revenue.

If revenue drops..... Then you'll see heads roll.

revenue will more than likely rise with the additional Avatar and Star Wars attractions coming. Especially considering they will have new movies in each franchise every year after 2015 and thats not counting endless novels, comics, games, etc. Sci-Fi is always popular and Star Wars has never lost its luster even after Lucas spent the past decade going nuts and making very horrendous decisions for the brand. Throw in a little Frozen and Marvel and Disney pretty much has nowhere to go but up for the remainder of the decade. Really the only hope right now is that Disney management does it's regular management musical chairs and we end up with a Matt Ouimet like figure for at least a decent period of time.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
Let's hope it's the drought of good ideas.

Funny side story, my wife and I went to dinner with a couple. The my friends wife has never been to wdw, this has been the only reason in the past 2 years that I want to go. For some reason the thought of going with a first timer is still intriguing.


From a long-time DL person who finally landed in Florida last year, it was interesting to see the sheer SIZE of MK and the overall layout but the differences were immediately evident. The lack of trees and greenery (hanging flower baskets, shrubs, etc) on Main Street is the more glaring quickly followed by the huge castle which has this giant open ...courtyard, basically, in front of it and a stage plopped in front that matches absolutely nothing and makes no sense for it's existence if there is not a show going on at the exact time you find yourself in front of it.

I understand why MSUSA is so wide, but that also takes away from the charm of DL MSUSA, of feeling like a tight knit little town and you're literally walking down Main Street, USA. At MK, it feels like a wide expanse of concrete with no benches nor shade and there's ...almost the feeling or urgency to walk through it quickly. It's not as welcoming as DL is.

That said, there are some pluses MK has. I really like MKs castle more than DL, but I love the way DL s castle opens into a new world, whereas MK ...I didn't even realize you were able to walk through it. But going around the side, it doesn't have that one-two punch of entering a new realm. Size isn't always a good thing.

Words can't express how much I love the peoplemover, and miss it at DL so, so much.

I also liked splash mountain at MK over DL. Then again, I saw it a month after a fantastic refurb, so there's that.


Lopping this ridiculous post back to yours, I think you would be surprised what a first timer has to say about wdw. There's a lot of glamour of the parks, but the reality is, there's always comparisons and...well, they're not always pretty. People notice flaws whether they've been there a thousand times or just once (the smell of the monorails will never, I fear, leave my nostrils) and whether they've read Internet forums or not.

I think I had a leg up compared to someone who has never read up on wdw, and just went in basically blind. But I research the hell out of everything...vacations, computers, my next cable package, before buying. I sorta knew what I was getting into, however it had less of an impact because it was so new and fresh, as a first timer.

Even still, you learn quickly.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
revenue will more than likely rise with the additional Avatar and Star Wars attractions coming. Especially considering they will have new movies in each franchise every year after 2015 and thats not counting endless novels, comics, games, etc. Sci-Fi is always popular and Star Wars has never lost its luster even after Lucas spent the past decade going nuts and making very horrendous decisions for the brand. Throw in a little Frozen and Marvel and Disney pretty much has nowhere to go but up for the remainder of the decade. Really the only hope right now is that Disney management does it's regular management musical chairs and we end up with a Matt Ouimet like figure for at least a decent period of time.

Im not disagreeing with you at all.

I'm trying to make the point that the only thing the executives care about is the revenue.

Beyond that, once Star Wars land comes on (hopefully before I'm 50), revenue will continue to be obscene.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Let's hope it's the drought of good ideas.

Funny side story, my wife and I went to dinner with a couple. The my friends wife has never been to wdw, this has been the only reason in the past 2 years that I want to go. For some reason the thought of going with a first timer is still intriguing.

My cousin was the ultimate hardcore Disney kid. Lion King everything when she was small. So much so I hated the company for a time (before coming back in 2002). But she never went, still hasnt been and has zero desire to do so.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Perhaps in DHS...
Perhaps. There's also this backstage parking space they could put to use that seems big enough for a major ride.
image.jpg

If Star Wars can work in the Tomorrowlands elsewhere, Guardians should be no problem in Magic Kingdom (except of course for TDO who's averse to spending).
 
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Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Perhaps. There's also this parking space they could put to use that seems big enough for a major ride.
View attachment 65004
If Star Wars can work in the Tomorrowlands elsewhere, Guardians should be no problem in Magic Kingdom (except of course for TDO who's averse to spending).

I haven't seen Guardians, but I get from friends who HAVE seen it that it's a bit more adult in tone than Star Wars...some pretty rough language, as I understand it. That's why I suggested DHS, if a Guardian ride or attraction was ever built in WDW (and I wonder what Universal would have to say about that...?)
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I haven't seen Guardians, but I get from friends who HAVE seen it that it's a bit more adult in tone than Star Wars...some pretty rough language, as I understand it. That's why I suggested DHS, if a Guardian ride or attraction was ever built in WDW (and I wonder what Universal would have to say about that...?)
Very simple fix for that, don't write a script with that kind of language for the ride. Also it has been said in this thread that Guardians is good to go for WDW, hence why we got the preview among other things without any flak from Uni.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
I truly side with no one, I just demand more from Disney. They should be held to the highest standard and they are coming nowhere near it. The companies behind the parks... That is a whole other story. They're both pretty terrible in the end but this is about the parks.

I'm a Disney fan, would like to see them return to their glory days. But I'm also a central Florida resident--a huge percentage of my friends are directly employed by the Mouse, and many more are indirectly supported. Not to mention I live in what may be the last true "company town" in America. All these factor into my analysis of what they do.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
The numbers suggest change is happening, and it's not the kind of change that corporate Disney wants.
...

Iger’s P&R strategy has hamstrung WDW, smothering it exactly when it should be blooming.

Price hikes, quality cuts, and delayed investments are not the paths to healthy growth.

Had an interesting conversation with a friend tonight, one who still frequents the DISBoards I abandoned years ago because it had become pixie dust central. Apparently even the owner over there has soured on WDW, taking them to task for the Villains Party debacle and the upcharge event at MNSSHP. That's huge. It feels like a sea change this year; they've found the breaking point where all but the fans they have on the payroll have said, "whoa, you've gone too far."
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
WON"T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?! There's nothing rough in Guardians of the Galaxy and the only references that ARE made will go over young kids' heads.

Again, because Indy, and Pirates and Haunted Mansion and Alien Encounter and other darker attractions have never been in a MK park...
A ride where one of the first things you see is a guy who hung himself. Man Disney was awesome back in the day, would LOVE to see the Disney of today push something like that :happy:
 

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
Ummmm... Dark huh....

Bambi's mom is broasted in the first few minutes, the dog always dies, the father Lion dies because of his son, poison apple, spinning wheel, sleepy hollow, Mr. Toad in hell, headhunters in a Jungle Cruise, Skeletal remains from the Eye of Mara, Jack Skelington's assorted cast mates, pirates and their general practices, Captain Hook's hand as an appetizer, Alice's hallucinogenic drug trip featuring a queen with a fascination with head removal, 2 yeti-like creatures terrorizing mountains on separate coasts, a terrible fall into a briar patch based on a movie that can't be found in the USA, the oh so cheerful platitudes of Tom Sawyer,happy episodic adventures of Rod Serling featuring the free-fall of elevators, the wholesome music and behavior of Aerosmith, the reminiscent thoughts of a president assassinated in a theater and accompanying civil war jubilance.

I have many more uplifting and radiant examples of the never dark Disney subject matter, but that run-on sentence for which my English professors would surely punish me, has left me exhausted. So to quote the songwriter and composer Harry Nilsson of the under-appreciated "The Point"..."Thank You....and Good Night!"

*1023*
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
WON"T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?! There's nothing rough in Guardians of the Galaxy and the only references that ARE made will go over young kids' heads.

Again, because Indy, and Pirates and Haunted Mansion and Alien Encounter and other darker attractions have never been in a MK park...

I think the children will be perfectly fine..... with a nice lemon and butter sauce and a lil bit of garlic.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Perhaps. There's also this parking space they could put to use that seems big enough for a major ride.
View attachment 65004
If Star Wars can work in the Tomorrowlands elsewhere, Guardians should be no problem in Magic Kingdom (except of course for TDO who's averse to spending).

What is people's obsession with the Tomorrowland Speedway? Its the ultimate 3-8 year old's attraction. They get to drive!
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
The problem with Iger is that he doesn't have what George Herbert Walker Bush called the "vision thing". He looks at theme parks with an accountant's eye and has no imagination as for where to take it (i.e a "vision"). It is said that he came up with the idea for Avatar at DAK while at a Hollywood party.

Correction: He does have some imagination but that imagination is driven by factors other than a creative long term vision. Now, I wasn't inside his head at the time, but I can pretty much guess is thought pattern leading up to his idea for Avatar.

It went like this. Looking at the numbers for the Disney parks, DAK is clearly a day park. Those hours at night being closed is a waste of a potential money generator. In order for it to pull in revenue at night, it would need new attractions that can stay open in the nighttime hours. This is where he probably struggled with for some time, asking himself repeatedly "what kind of attraction would have night appeal... Hmm...". He probably thought long and hard about this over and over again. Then, at the Hollywood party, the "glow" of the lighting there reminded him of that magical glow scene moment in Avatar when Jake notices all the bioluminescent life in the forest. In this eureka moment, he "clearly" equated bioluminescent life with DAK's theme of "Tree if Life" and (to him) was a natural fit that would be great to see at night and BINGO! - this was what DAK needed that (to him) was perfect in theme and what was necessary to make DAK a full-day attraction in order for it to generate evening hour revenue. The only hurdle at that point was getting James Cameron on board. He immediately called Cameron and Cameron was as excited (if not more excited) than Iger and the deal was sealed.
 
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