The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Nubs70]

I stand by my claim that rides have NOT been refurbished and only minimal maintenance is performed, The space mountain 're-furb' is an example - slapped a little paint here and there added new audio, The track is in rough shape and the cars needed additional braking because they go too fast for condition of track.

To be fair at Space mountain a full refurbishment WAS planned but the bean counters at TDO nixed it.

The monorail is another, out of service for huge portions of the day for months on end and minimal work performed in the monorail's case not even a heavy cleaning and paint touchup

HM - Doom buggies out of service, You see the same thing at Buzz.

I'm sorry there has been no 'refurbishment' in the sense an industrial engineer would use in a VERY long time at WDW.

There has been 'maintenance' and cosmetic reworks - but no 'refurbishment' as understood by an engineer.

This is very true. I'm working a 24 hour maintenance down as I type. The facilities I work in have different levels of maintenance activities.

1. Down day - typically every 5 to 6 weeks. Range from 8 to 24 hours.
2. Annual outage - once a year for 7 days. This is where major refurbishment takes place. Often up to 200 contractors are on site and work goes 24 hours a day. Staffing is dictated by the available time frame not by budget.

 

[Captain Neo]

You are touting something that hasn't even been built yet? A single piece of concept art?

And Horizons isn't part of Michael's Disney? Really? Because I was alive back then and I know it opened on EPCOT's one-year anniversary and was about 11 months old when Michael took over Disney.

And Imagination? You mean the ride MDE rode and asked 'What did you do with my (blanking) $57 million?!!' And, yes, I know someone who was there for that memorable ridethru.

And you show Bob Iger getting shown the door by Bob Iger as something good?!?! Iger inherited the guy ... a creative genius ... and he kept him doing NOTHING of note for far longer than he sat under MDE.

Why? Why am I wasting time with this?

Point 1: It's not a single piece of concept art. There are full scale models, several pieces of concept art, and details about Avatar Land. It will deliver just like Cars Land delivered and you know damn well that it will.

Point 2: As you yourself said Horizons already existed before Eisner entered the picture. He and his team were the ones that ruined Epcot because it wasn't "hip" enough and had Horizons and World of Motion replaced with bare bone thrill rides, set up that ugly fiesta crap in the plaza, ruined Universe of Energy with a stupid ellen degeneris tie-in, etc.

Point 3: Your playing games. Eisner's boys are the ones that ruined Imagination in the first place in 1999 and even if he didn't like the end result the second version (JIYI W/ Figment) was just as awful. Arguably more so since it turned figment into an obnoxious character.

Point 4: Eisner and his team are the ones that neutered Baxter in the first place and had him just sitting in a corner not doing anything for a DECADE. At least Iger had the decency to let him supervise the Disneyland portfolio for his last few years and gave him authority to green light pet projects like Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough, reopening Captain EO, etc.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Point 1: It's not a single piece of concept art. There are full scale models, several pieces of concept art, and details about Avatar Land. It will deliver just like Cars Land delivered and you know damn well that it will.

Point 2: As you yourself said Horizons already existed before Eisner entered the picture. He and his team were the ones that ruined Epcot because it wasn't "hip" enough and had Horizons and World of Motion replaced with bare bone thrill rides, set up that ugly fiesta crap in the plaza, ruined Universe of Energy with a stupid ellen degeneris tie-in, etc.

Point 3: Your playing games. Eisner's boys are the ones that ruined Imagination in the first place in 1999 and even if he didn't like the end result the second version (JIYI W/ Figment) was just as awful. Arguably more so since it turned figment into an obnoxious character.

Point 4: Eisner and his team are the ones that neutered Baxter in the first place and had him just sitting in a corner not doing anything for a DECADE. At least Iger had the decency to let him supervise the Disneyland portfolio for his last few years and gave him authority to green light pet projects like Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough, reopening Captain EO, etc.

If they were still around Iger would be looking to replace Horizons, World of Motion and Imagination nor would he have empowered Tony Baxter. All of those things represent a vision of theme parks not specifically tied to marketing established franchises created by other divisions of the Company. You're so caught up in some recent aesthetic changes that you're completely missing the continued and accelerated rejection of the heart of the parks as something more than crass marketing.

 

[71jason]

they are closing attractions that get fallout from the pyro... wouldn't do to light honey boo boo's bouffant, what with the flammability of aquanet...

Those are some powerful fireworks when their fallout can set a fire over 3 hours before they're shot off.

 

[71jason]

Here's something that's probably going to be unpopular and irritate several of you…

So I finally checked out the frozen fireworks spectacular summer fun shindig. The crowd? Easily two or three times bigger then the Star Wars fireworks crowd.

It's pretty ridiculous… on the other hand? I can't say the last time I saw the studios that crowded on an average Tuesday night in the summer.

Jibes with what I've heard about the park getting a late afternoon surge, stealing crowds from EPCOT this Summer.

Of course, also supports my theory about the Star Wars fanbase being fanatical but not large by mainstream measures.

 

[Captain Neo]

If they were still around Iger would be looking to replace Horizons, World of Motion and Imagination nor would he have empowered Tony Baxter. All of those things represent a vision of theme parks not specifically tied to marketing established franchises created by other divisions of the Company. You're so caught up in some recent aesthetic changes that you're completely missing the continued and accelerated rejection of the heart of the parks as something more than crass marketing.

We don't know what Iger would have done if Horizons, World of Motion or Imagination so its a moot point. Although given his MO, he probably wouldn't do anything and just leave them as is.

He obviously did not empower Baxter but my point was that it was Eisner who pushed him into irrelevance a decade prior.

Eisner is the one that spearheaded the concept of replacing attractions to better tie them into established franchises. Did we so quickly forget Countdown to extinct becoming DINOSAUR, Alien Encounter becoming Stitch Great Escape, dream flight becoming buzz lightyear spin, tiki room under new management, adventures through inner space becoming Star Tours, Captain Eo, Indiana Jones Adventure & Stunt show, etc. etc.? He's the guy who came up with this idea and put it into Iger/staggs/rasulo's heads and Disney is still running with those ideas to this day.

 

[doctornick]

Of course, also supports my theory about the Star Wars fanbase being fanatical but not large by mainstream measures.

I think SWW attractions a certain level of obsessed follower of SW, but honestly doesn't appeal to most "ordinary" fans of the franchise of which there are a lot. I mean, what are the unique offerings: meeting some C-list actors who were in the movies or do voice work for the cartoons, a mediocre parade, M&Gs with characters that any adult knows are not "real"? The fireworks show seems nice, but are people really going to make special trip to Florida for it?

I think I'm a pretty big Star Wars fan but I don't have the slightest desire to go to a SWW. Sure, if I were in town during that time, I'd go, but I wouldn't plan a trip over being there at that time. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but an actual land with high quality rides and the chance to "visit" Star Wars places would appeal to far more people than meeting Jeremy Bulloch.

 

[lazyboy97o]

We don't know what Iger would have done if Horizons, World of Motion or Imagination so its a moot point. Although given his MO, he probably wouldn't do anything and just leave them as is.

He obviously did not empower Baxter but my point was that it was Eisner who pushed him into irrelevance a decade prior.

Eisner is the one that spearheaded the concept of replacing attractions to better tie them into established franchises. Did we so quickly forget Countdown to extinct becoming DINOSAUR, Alien Encounter becoming Stitch Great Escape, dream flight becoming buzz lightyear spin, tiki room under new management, adventures through inner space becoming Star Tours, Captain Eo, Indiana Jones Adventure & Stunt show, etc. etc.? He's the guy who came up with this idea and put it into Iger/staggs/rasulo's heads and Disney is still running with those ideas to this day.

We are all well aware of Eisner's work. What you seem to be repeatedly ignoring is that almost everything you mention as a negative is a view shared by, continued by and often accelerated by Iger. The emphasis on synergy was pushed by Strategic Planning. That group was disbanded but the people remained, namely the two men who under Iger have been CFO and head of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. Especially when it comes to the theme parks, Iger is almost everything bad about Eisner with almost none of the good.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Mizers--the only lounge in the signature WDW resort--stopped serving complimentary bowls of mixed nuts this weekend as a cost-cutting measure. Apparently bulk nuts were cutting into the margins from the 800% mark-up on liquor.

Oh for crying out loud....

 

[stevehousse]

Mizers--the only lounge in the signature WDW resort--stopped serving complimentary bowls of mixed nuts this weekend as a cost-cutting measure. Apparently bulk nuts were cutting into the margins from the 800% mark-up on liquor.

R we talking about bowls of nuts sitting on the bar for everyone to snack on? (Sorry I've never been to Mizers) If so, do u know for a fact they got rid of them for a cost cutting measure??? Most bars and restaurants have actually stopped this practice as it has actually become a health issue more than anything...just think of how many dirty unwashed hands were all over those nuts. (LOL...sorry that sounds a little childish) But in all seriousness, that is the main reason most places stopped doing this, or if they do still do it, they give out individual little bowls instead of the big free for all bowls.

Just think how many booger and filled hands have been digging in those bowls

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think SWW attractions a certain level of obsessed follower of SW, but honestly doesn't appeal to most "ordinary" fans of the franchise of which there are a lot. I mean, what are the unique offerings: meeting some C-list actors who were in the movies or do voice work for the cartoons, a mediocre parade, M&Gs with characters that any adult knows are not "real"? The fireworks show seems nice, but are people really going to make special trip to Florida for it?

I think I'm a pretty big Star Wars fan but I don't have the slightest desire to go to a SWW. Sure, if I were in town during that time, I'd go, but I wouldn't plan a trip over being there at that time. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but an actual land with high quality rides and the chance to "visit" Star Wars places would appeal to far more people than meeting Jeremy Bulloch.

And Jason's point is that Star Wars weekends is patronize mostly by the same people over and over again. And I got to back up on that one.

My point is that the audience today from frozen ridiculously out through the audience from Star Wars weekends. Based on just mere observational data.

now will frozen last 37 years? Good question.

 

[marni1971]

And Imagination? You mean the ride MDE rode and asked 'What did you do with my (blanking) $57 million?!!' And, yes, I know someone who was there for that memorable ridethru.

As do I. Was quite the spectacle apparently.

 

[PhotoDave219]

And now Lauren Bacall -- what a week for the movies.

She was one of the last links to the Golden Age of Hollywood. Kirk Douglas and Olivia de Havilland are still alive. Who else from that era?

(And I googled it on a hunch, and Bacall was at the grand opening of Disney-MGM Studios. Amazing the star power they were able to draw back then.)

Slight difference - I had no idea she was still alive. Sad tho.

 

[asianway]

Here's something that's probably going to be unpopular and irritate several of you…

So I finally checked out the frozen fireworks spectacular summer fun shindig. The crowd? Easily two or three times bigger then the Star Wars fireworks crowd.

It's pretty ridiculous… on the other hand? I can't say the last time I saw the studios that crowded on an average Tuesday night in the summer.

Look at the Wdw fb wall post about the extension - The number of likes and comments is huge

 

[Clamman73]

Here's something that's probably going to be unpopular and irritate several of you…

So I finally checked out the frozen fireworks spectacular summer fun shindig. The crowd? Easily two or three times bigger then the Star Wars fireworks crowd.

It's pretty ridiculous… on the other hand? I can't say the last time I saw the studios that crowded on an average Tuesday night in the summer.

A friend's family (DVC members) were there in July - he said it was the best money spent.

 

[ParentsOf4]

R we talking about bowls of nuts sitting on the bar for everyone to snack on? (Sorry I've never been to Mizers) If so, do u know for a fact they got rid of them for a cost cutting measure??? Most bars and restaurants have actually stopped this practice as it has actually become a health issue more than anything...just think of how many dirty unwashed hands were all over those nuts. (LOL...sorry that sounds a little childish) But in all seriousness, that is the main reason most places stopped doing this, or if they do still do it, they give out individual little bowls instead of the big free for all bowls.

Just think how many booger and filled hands have been digging in those bowls

During a visit to Victoria Falls (the bar at the Animal Kingdom Lodge) in April, the server brought out a free bowl of nuts for me and my DW.

I assume it was fresh, not recycled from another table.

If it was recycled, then any health problem lies with Disney's practices.

During a July visit, we did not receive any complementary nuts at the Territory Lounge (the bar at the Wilderness Lodge).

At the prices they charge for drinks, let's hope Disney hasn't stooped to counting peanuts.

 

[WildcatDen]

Are you familiar with the work of Edward Tufte

No, but I have heard of the work done by Willie Krakwonov. A true master of his Crapht.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

\
Anyone in the mood for some HoJo's ice cream, maybe after a hot dog or some fried clams ? Ask the folks running Burger King\

@WDW1974 You always struck me as a chocolate chip kind of spirit.

While @Lee was a Pecan Brittle sort of guy.

I am,however, a Butterscotch sort of fanboi.

Howard Johnson's 28 Flavors of Ice Cream

Banana
Black Raspberry
Burgundy Cherry
Butter Pecan
Buttercrunch
Butterscotch
Caramel Fudge
Chocolate
Chocolate Chip
Coconut
Coffee
Frozen Pudding
Fruit Salad
Fudge Ripple
Lemon Stick
Macaroon
Maple Walnut
Mocha Chip
Orange-Pineapple
Peach
Peanut Brittle
Pecan Brittle
Peppermint Stick
Pineapple
Pistachio
Strawberry
Strawberry Ripple
Vanilla

 

[xdan0920]

R we talking about bowls of nuts sitting on the bar for everyone to snack on? (Sorry I've never been to Mizers) If so, do u know for a fact they got rid of them for a cost cutting measure??? Most bars and restaurants have actually stopped this practice as it has actually become a health issue more than anything...just think of how many dirty unwashed hands were all over those nuts. (LOL...sorry that sounds a little childish) But in all seriousness, that is the main reason most places stopped doing this, or if they do still do it, they give out individual little bowls instead of the big free for all bowls.

Just think how many booger and filled hands have been digging in those bowls

No place should have big bowls anymore. I assume, Mizers was using handy dandy individual bowls for groups of guests.

But for fun, let's assume they were using big bowls, and they said, oh this is not sanitary, we need to stop. Then the actual solution is the small bowls. Not removal of the munchies. Which by the way, drive drink sales.

 

[71jason]

R we talking about bowls of nuts sitting on the bar for everyone to snack on? (Sorry I've never been to Mizers) If so, do u know for a fact they got rid of them for a cost cutting measure??? Most bars and restaurants have actually stopped this practice as it has actually become a health issue more than anything...just think of how many dirty unwashed hands were all over those nuts. (LOL...sorry that sounds a little childish) But in all seriousness, that is the main reason most places stopped doing this, or if they do still do it, they give out individual little bowls instead of the big free for all bowls.

Just think how many booger and filled hands have been digging in those bowls

Yes. And yes, it was cost-cutting (specifically the kitchen at Citricos, who were stuck paying for them). Health was never an issue because everyone got their own small bowl, run through dishwasher after each guest.