The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Untrue.
If 1,000 people can ride Peter Pan's flight in an hour, and there are, with no FP, 1,000 people in line, every person with wait 60 minutes (assuming steady-state line length). If Disney tells 500 of those people they don't need to wait, and can simply come back at the appointed time, the remaining 500 people will still each wait 60 minutes, but the 500 people who get FP will wait zero minutes. The total wait time of all guests is cut in half. Obviously, it doesn't work quite as smoothly as that, so the 500 people who get FP will actually wait a few minutes each, but the savings is not illusory or at the expense of standby riders.

What is true is that the savings are disproportionately the benefit of FP users at the expense of those who do not use FP. FP+, if it encourages broader and more even use of the system, will help to spread the benefits more evenly...likely to my detriment, as I had historically used FP for more than 3 attractions most days.
Be careful not to forget that for the 500 with a return time, a virtual queue exists. Wait time is not cut in half.

When someone is given a return time, they are waiting, just not in the physical line.

This was the idea behind the original FastPass. Save guests a spot in line and (hopefully) they’ll go to the shops and buy stuff. The reality was that most guests simply jumped into another Standby line. Effectively, they were in two lines at once, increasing overall demand.

Using your example, if Peter Pan has a capacity of 1000 guests/hour and 1000 people randomly show up to ride it over the course of the hour, then the wait time is essentially 0.

In this example, giving half those people a FP+ return time is meaningless since the ride is essentially a walk-on. In this case, supply equals demand.

Now let’s take the other extreme and say that all 1000 of those people show up at the exact same instant. In this case, the first person in line waits 0 while the last person waits 60 minutes. The average wait time is 30 minutes.

Now let’s say that Disney gives these last 500 people a return time. Those people still wait 31 to 60 minutes; they simply don’t wait in the physical line.

Wait times have not changed; only the geography of where the wait occurs has changed.

Disney wants you to use that time to shop. Me, I'm going to jump in the line for IASW, increasing the demand for that attraction, causing its Standby line wait time to increase.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Further, the actual ride system employed is frequently less important than the presentation and scale of the complete attraction experience. Some of Disney's most enduring, inspiring, and well done attractions are very basic omnimovers or boat-rides (Spaceship Earth, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, etc.).

This. I tend to think that people make far too big a deal about the specific ride system or being "innovative". It's the execution that is far more important. You can use a boring ride system and have a beautiful immersive ride that can be just as exciting as something using the latest and greatest Tech.

I've watched ride throughs of Mystic Manor and the fact that it is trackless/LPS seems to be incidental to how amazing the ride is. It could probably be an Omnimover and be virtually as awesome because the storyline and effects are so fantastic.
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
Disney has a number of innovative attractions from Disney parks around the globe which could readily be cloned in Walt Disney World - Carsland, Ratatouille, and Mystic Manor are among them and would do wonders for the Florida parks. Then there are all the ("blue-sky") attraction concept proposals which never made it further than coffee-table books and artwork of what might have been. Point is, there is no shortage of ideas which could quickly break ground without prior development.

Further, the actual ride system employed is frequently less important than the presentation and scale of the complete attraction experience. Some of Disney's most enduring, inspiring, and well done attractions are very basic omnimovers or boat-rides (Spaceship Earth, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, etc.).
This is true! as much as people love to point out how trackless systems are so cool, what would be the big deal is haunted mansion was trackless. It's still the best dark ride in history. Granted mystic manor looks fantastic.

I would love to see what universal could do with a family friendly dark ride because Disney cut most of the dark ride elements from mine train so they obviously want to go for the cheaper, more thrilling coaster sections.
 

cheezbat

Well-Known Member
I was one of those nutjobs in line at 5am this morning at Universal...I went through the hell of the original Wizarding World in 2010...I was at Antarctica's grand opening last year (also hell), and while it was insanely busy today, it was by far the most comfortable and organized wait of the openings I've been to.

I'm a big Disney and Universal fan. I'm not a big Potter fan...but Diagon Alley was even more amazing than I imagined. I brought my skeptical brothers with me and even both of them agreed the land was phenomenal, and a game changer. My younger bro kept trying to view outside entities or find unfinished areas while in D.A. He couldn't. This land is so well done that it makes Hogsmeade pale in comparison. As for Gringott's....LOVED the ride! So immersive and seamless in presentation! It exceeded my expectations as well. I found it to be even more enjoyable than Forbidden Journey or Spider-Man.

This ride just took my #1 spot.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Be careful not to forget that for the 500 with a return time, a virtual queue exists. Wait time is not cut in half.

When someone is given a return time, they are waiting, just not in the physical line.

This was the idea behind the original FastPass. Save guests a spot in line and (hopefully) they’ll go to the shops and buy stuff. The reality was that most guests simply jumped into another Standby line. Effectively, they were in two lines at once, increasing overall demand.

Using your example, if Peter Pan has a capacity of 1000 guests/hour and 1000 people randomly show up to ride it over the course of the hour, then the wait time is essentially 0.

In this example, giving half those people a FP+ return time is meaningless since the ride is essentially a walk-on. In this case, supply equals demand.

Now let’s take the other extreme and say that all 1000 of those people show up at the exact same instant. In this case, the first person in line waits 0 while the last person waits 60 minutes. The average wait time is 30 minutes.

Now let’s say that Disney gives these last 500 people a return time. Those people still wait 31 to 60 minutes; they simply don’t wait in the physical line.

Wait times have not changed; only the geography of where the wait occurs has changed.

Disney wants you to use that time to shop. Me, I'm going to jump in the line for IASW, increasing the demand for that attraction, causing its Standby line wait time to increase.
I like the way you explained this. It is clear and understandable. I love fast pass plus. The interesting this today is Universal started giving out return time to DA. I knew they would have to do something because all those people standing in line cant spend anything on food or other stuff.
 

PrincessNelly_NJ

Well-Known Member
As of right now, according to MDE App, here are some highlights:

SDMT closed temporarily
PPF 55 minutes
IASW 30 minutes
Space 60 minutes
Splash 90 minutes
Soarin' 105 minutes
SSE 25 minutes
TT 30 minutes
Maelstrom 35 minutes
ToT 20 minutes
TSMM 65 minutes
RNRC 40 minutes
ExEv 35 minutes
Kali 80 minutes
Wow... EE, ToT, and TT have less 35 minutes wait during the Summer?
I wonder why...:rolleyes:
3550278-8528698284-_1360.gif

1404856547_zps9e57edd5.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'm not opposed to having a child oriented ride for Star Wars -- even a flat ride, though I'd prefer a dark ride -- but there is no reason to have another spinner at WDW. There's lots of other types of flat rides that can be joffered that offer something different than a spinner.

If they did an indoor x-wing spinner or even x-wing/TIE spinner that made it seem like you were in space and maybe even shooting things that could work. It would be different enough but still be a spinner that all ages could enjoy.
 
I'm not opposed to having a child oriented ride for Star Wars -- even a flat ride, though I'd prefer a dark ride -- but there is no reason to have another spinner at WDW. There's lots of other types of flat rides that can be offered that offer something different than a spinner.

2 Dumbo rides at MK
Flying Carpets of Aladdin at MK
Triceratop Spin at AK

Do we seriously need a 4th/5th spinner ride?
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Yep, looks like nobody is excited about Diagon Alley! Totally gonna be a ghost town by next week.
I didn't say ghost town! I just don't think it will be like the original land was where you had to wait in a line to get into the land for the first few months of operation. And a big part of that is because hogsmeade can help alleviate some of the crowds! I'm still saying it's going to be 2 plus hour waits for all the attractions. But it shouldn't be the absolute mess of crowds the original land was in first few months of ops.
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
This is true! as much as people love to point out how trackless systems are so cool, what would be the big deal is haunted mansion was trackless. It's still the best dark ride in history. Granted mystic manor looks fantastic.

I would love to see what universal could do with a family friendly dark ride because Disney cut most of the dark ride elements from mine train so they obviously want to go for the cheaper, more thrilling coaster sections.

But the trackless system allows guests to re-ride with a different perspective in parts of the ride.

Another thing, the ending of Mystic Manor wouldn't be the same with an omnimover. You could come into it mid-spiel ala Madame Leota and it wouldn't be as effective.
 
Last edited:

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Even without Universal's exclusivity, Disney would not be the ones doing any advancements to the ride system. The technology was developed and is owned by KUKA. Disney could work with KUKA to develop something new and still considered different or, as often happens in the industry, work alone or with someone else to develop a system that achieves a similar result but does not run afoul of any patents owned by others.

The ride system utilized by Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey was freely and publicly available before Universal signed an exclusivity deal. Nothing stops Disney from utilizing new systems from ride system manufacturers and it would not be anything new for Disney either.

I remember reading about an Incredibles ride that was to use the Kuka or another robotic arm. I guess the arm picked up the ride vehicle and wasn't always attached but others would probably know more than me. I thought this ride would work so much better in DHS than Carsland.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
Maybe she had a small wedding.
A wedding is a wedding if you are talking about significant life events. Marriage is usually towards the top, assuming it all works out. I would think that as far as life events go, it would be something like this:

1. Marriage
2. Birth of Child(ren)
3. Child gets married
4. Birth of grandchild(ren)
.
.
.
.
.
999. New Star Wars Movie Opens (who am I kidding, that would be #5) ;)
1000. Opening of Diagon Alley

I don't know, call me crazy.
 
Last edited:

crispy

Well-Known Member
I didn't say ghost town! I just don't think it will be like the original land was where you had to wait in a line to get into the land for the first few months of operation. And a big part of that is because hogsmeade can help alleviate some of the crowds! I'm still saying it's going to be 2 plus hour waits for all the attractions. But it shouldn't be the absolute mess of crowds the original land was in first few months of ops.

Just a bit of teasing on my part. I knew what you meant.
 

PrincessNelly_NJ

Well-Known Member
I didn't say ghost town! I just don't think it will be like the original land was where you had to wait in a line to get into the land for the first few months of operation. And a big part of that is because hogsmeade can help alleviate some of the crowds! I'm still saying it's going to be 2 plus hour waits for all the attractions. But it shouldn't be the absolute mess of crowds the original land was in first few months of ops.
I think waits will drop off faster than they did with FJ simply because Hogsmeade was the first of its kind, most people are waiting to go, and because many are deciding to stay on-site & use early entry to avoid crowds.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom