The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
MichWolv said:
This is not true. Mathematically. Unless you believe that people decide whether or not to get into a line based on a its physical length versus is chronological length.
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Now we are getting into queuing theory. :)

To be clear, when I write about the length of a line, I'm referring to its wait time, not its physical length. When people see a line, they don't say, "It's 200 feet long". They say, "It's a 45-minute wait".

Setting aside how the length of a line (i.e. queue) influences a guest's decision to enter that line, the wait time is determined by supply (i.e. ride capacity) and demand (i.e. how many want to ride it).

What FastPass+ (or any preferred line system does) is artificially lower the price for a subset of guests. "With my FastPass+, I only have to wait for 10 minutes for Peter Pan." (Having ridden PP many times with FP/FP+, that's about right.)

However, that reduced wait time is not free. It comes at the expense of the wait times of those in the Standby line. If you will, those in the FastPass+ line 'cut' in front of those in the Standby line.

Very simplistically, if the average wait time of Peter Pan without FastPass+ is 30 minutes, but then I let in half the guests on the ride in only 10 minutes, then those in the Standby line end up waiting 50 minutes. The total wait time for all participants does not change. However, how that wait time is distributed among all participates does change.

The dynamics of a queue are more complicated than this because as the Standby wait time increases, fewer guests are willing to pay the higher 'price'. Conversely, the FastPass+ line creates artificial demand. Some guests might not be willing to 'pay' 30 minutes but will gladly 'pay' 10 minutes, causing the Standby line wait time to increase.

If there were no FastPass+ lines, then everyone would wait 30 minutes. With FastPass+, some people wait 10 minutes while others wait 50 minutes.

Ultimately, FastPass+ (or Universal's Express Pass) makes the Standby line longer.

There's a reason they call them "standby". :D
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
MDactor1980 said:
I agree with all of this!! I feel like both can co-exist without there being so much comparison.

Also, I know I've read about this on the forums somewhere, but isn't there some agreement that the technology on HPFJ is off limits for any other parks for ten years or something? SO it's ten years (give or take) for Disney to get access to that technology. For them to "beat" all of the HP element at USF, then need to find the next big thing in terms of theme parks? That seems like it would take a good bit of time and research...
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Disney waiting to use the exact side ride system would not be innovation nor are ride systems the only way to be innovative.
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
PrincessNelly_NJ said:
So apparently, It was an 8 hour wait to get in Hogsmeade but only 2 hours to ride FJ.
While Diagon Alley is 3-6 hours to get in and 6 1/2 hours to ride Gringotts.

So pretty close.
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If that's correct.... with Gringott's capacity being pretty low due to running few vehicles (and apparently having some breakdowns) compared to FJ which (I think) was running at relatively full capacity to start, doesn't that suggest that perhaps the attendance at DA on day 1 is less than Hogsmeade? Of course, DA is physically larger so maybe it is just more people present who aren't bothering to get in line for Gringotts but are checking out the stores.
 
MDactor1980

MDactor1980

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Disney waiting to use the exact side ride system would not be innovation nor are ride systems the only way to be innovative.
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Yeah, but they can't even "improve" upon the ride system until then. I personally gravitate toward ride systems (as I feel many people do), but any innovative idea for an attraction/experience requires a good deal of time spent in research and development before any ground can be broken.
 
Ranch Dressing

Ranch Dressing

Well-Known Member
First off lets establish I love Disney and Universal both, I hold no preference to either company, Im a theme park fan.

That out of the way, Gringotts lived up to the hype. There are two OMG moments youre going to remember long after your trip is over. I dont want to give out specifics, but after the ride ended everyone was applauding. The best way to describe the ride is its like the Mummy on steroids times 100.

The bad? Screen dependent. It stops a couple times for little speeches. The blue screen overlay of the actors in one scene is pretty bad.

The ride raises the bar just a little more, I was completely impressed. Sorry this took so long, I'm getting hammered with phone calls about it.
 
R

Ray B

Member
My only question is if you get motion side can you ride this? I miss the motion simulators which really stinks. I can do BTMR and usually get through Space Mountain but the simulators would destroy me.
 
MichWolv

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
ParentsOf4 said:
Now we are getting into queuing theory. :)

To be clear, when I write about the length of a line, I'm referring to its wait time, not its physical length. When people see a line, they don't say, "It's 200 feet long". They say, "It's a 45-minute wait".

Setting aside how the length of a line (i.e. queue) influences a guest's decision to enter that line, the wait time is determined by supply (i.e. ride capacity) and demand (i.e. how many want to ride it).

What FastPass+ (or any preferred line system does) is artificially lower the price for a subset of guests. "With my FastPass+, I only have to wait for 10 minutes for Peter Pan." (Having ridden PP many times with FP/FP+, that's about right.)

However, that reduced wait time is not free. It comes at the expense of the wait times of those in the Standby line. If you will, those in the FastPass+ line 'cut' in front of those in the Standby line.

Very simplistically, if the average wait time of Peter Pan without FastPass+ is 30 minutes, but then I let in half the guests on the ride in only 10 minutes, then those in the Standby line end up waiting 50 minutes. The total wait time for all participants does not change. However, how that wait time is distributed among all participates does change.

The dynamics of a queue are more complicated than this because as the Standby wait time increases, fewer guests are willing to pay the higher 'price'. Conversely, the FastPass+ line creates artificial demand. Some guests might not be willing to 'pay' 30 minutes but will gladly 'pay' 10 minutes, causing the Standby line wait time to increase.

If there were no FastPass+ lines, then everyone would wait 30 minutes. With FastPass+, some people wait 10 minutes while others wait 50 minutes.

Ultimately, FastPass+ (or Universal's Express Pass) makes the Standby line longer.

There's a reason they call them "standby". :D
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Untrue.

If 1,000 people can ride Peter Pan's flight in an hour, and there are, with no FP, 1,000 people in line, every person with wait 60 minutes (assuming steady-state line length). If Disney tells 500 of those people they don't need to wait, and can simply come back at the appointed time, the remaining 500 people will still each wait 60 minutes, but the 500 people who get FP will wait zero minutes. The total wait time of all guests is cut in half. Obviously, it doesn't work quite as smoothly as that, so the 500 people who get FP will actually wait a few minutes each, but the savings is not illusory or at the expense of standby riders.

What is true is that the savings are disproportionately the benefit of FP users at the expense of those who do not use FP. FP+, if it encourages broader and more even use of the system, will help to spread the benefits more evenly...likely to my detriment, as I had historically used FP for more than 3 attractions most days.
 
PrincessNelly_NJ

PrincessNelly_NJ

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
If that's correct.... with Gringott's capacity being pretty low due to running few vehicles (and apparently having some breakdowns) compared to FJ which (I think) was running at relatively full capacity to start, doesn't that suggest that perhaps the attendance at DA on day 1 is less than Hogsmeade? Of course, DA is physically larger so maybe it is just more people present who aren't bothering to get in line for Gringotts but are checking out the stores.
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Well now Gringotts is up to 450 minutes. So 7 hours to ride, not including the 3-4 wait to get into DA.
Idk how many times FJ broke down on opening day. Plus many guest are spreading out between both parks so irdk.
 
WDWFanDave

WDWFanDave

Well-Known Member
Soarin' Over Pgh said:
I don't see any arguing. But then again, my ignore list is well fed at this point.

I'm finding it very interesting to see the wait times and crowds at UO today... especially from my desk at work.

Anyone know what Disney parks are looking like right now?
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As of right now, according to MDE App, here are some highlights:

SDMT closed temporarily
PPF 55 minutes
IASW 30 minutes
Space 60 minutes
Splash 90 minutes
Soarin' 105 minutes
SSE 25 minutes
TT 30 minutes
Maelstrom 35 minutes
ToT 20 minutes
TSMM 65 minutes
RNRC 40 minutes
ExEv 35 minutes
Kali 80 minutes
 

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