The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[seascape]

They are handing out return times for entry into DA (Not valid for rides)

I have stayed off today but found the tread very interesting. I kept wondering what they would do that because no one can shop or eat while they are waiting on a line. If your posts are correct and people are spending that much time in lines it's time they can't be spending money and sales would not be as high as everyone kept posting. I think this move was smart a day fair for everyone.

 

[71jason]

Very simplistically, if the average wait time of Peter Pan without FastPass+ is 30 minutes, but then I let in half the guests on the ride in only 10 minutes, then those in the Standby line end up waiting 50 minutes. The total wait time for all participants does not change. However, how that wait time is distributed among all participates does change.

The dynamics of a queue are more complicated than this because as the Standby wait time increases, fewer guests are willing to pay the higher 'price'. Conversely, the FastPass+ line creates artificial demand. Some guests might not be willing to 'pay' 30 minutes but will gladly 'pay' 10 minutes, causing the Standby line wait time to increase.

Completely agree--and in practice, it's even worse, because it takes a small amount of time for every switch from standby to FP and back, and also because you get situations like at PotC where as the FP line dwindles, boats go off half-full, until more standby guests can be diverted to the other side.

 

[FigmentJedi]

As of right now, according to MDE App, here are some highlights:

SDMT closed temporarily
PPF 55 minutes
IASW 30 minutes
Space 60 minutes
Splash 90 minutes
Soarin' 105 minutes
SSE 25 minutes
TT 30 minutes
Maelstrom 35 minutes
ToT 20 minutes
TSMM 65 minutes
RNRC 40 minutes
ExEv 35 minutes
Kali 80 minutes

Soarin's only an hour and a half in a summer period? Universal really is cutting into attendance.

 

[Stevek]

So I may have to dig a little back on twitter but one of the comments I read this morning was one lady stating that the opening of Diagon Alley was bigger than her wedding day.

If I were her husband, divorce papers would be waiting for that nut.

 

[tahqa]

So I may have to dig a little back on twitter but one of the comments I read this morning was one lady stating that the opening of Diagon Alley was bigger than her wedding day.

If I were her husband, divorce papers would be waiting for that nut.

Maybe he agrees.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, but they can't even "improve" upon the ride system until then. I personally gravitate toward ride systems (as I feel many people do), but any innovative idea for an attraction/experience requires a good deal of time spent in research and development before any ground can be broken.

Even without Universal's exclusivity, Disney would not be the ones doing any advancements to the ride system. The technology was developed and is owned by KUKA. Disney could work with KUKA to develop something new and still considered different or, as often happens in the industry, work alone or with someone else to develop a system that achieves a similar result but does not run afoul of any patents owned by others.

The ride system utilized by Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey was freely and publicly available before Universal signed an exclusivity deal. Nothing stops Disney from utilizing new systems from ride system manufacturers and it would not be anything new for Disney either.

 

[mahnamahna101]

As of right now, according to MDE App, here are some highlights:

SDMT closed temporarily
PPF 55 minutes
IASW 30 minutes
Space 60 minutes
Splash 90 minutes
Soarin' 105 minutes
SSE 25 minutes
TT 30 minutes
Maelstrom 35 minutes
ToT 20 minutes
TSMM 65 minutes
RNRC 40 minutes
ExEv 35 minutes
Kali 80 minutes

Seems like DHS, AK and Epcot got hurt a little by Diagon.. MK more or less stayed the same

 

[FigmentJedi]

So I may have to dig a little back on twitter but one of the comments I read this morning was one lady stating that the opening of Diagon Alley was bigger than her wedding day.

If I were her husband, divorce papers would be waiting for that nut.

Fans are pretty prone to hyperbole man.

 

[CDavid]

Who do you think the people are who go every year? The top third of the population is who is the target audience of both Disney and Universal. The bottom 50% can't afford it and the other 17% go once or twice a lifetime.

Disney's target audience is middle class America, including many people from that "bottom 50%", who may have saved up for years, but for whom a Walt Disney World vacation has historically been within reach.

Untrue.

If 1,000 people can ride Peter Pan's flight in an hour, and there are, with no FP, 1,000 people in line, every person with wait 60 minutes (assuming steady-state line length). If Disney tells 500 of those people they don't need to wait, and can simply come back at the appointed time, the remaining 500 people will still each wait 60 minutes, but the 500 people who get FP will wait zero minutes. The total wait time of all guests is cut in half. Obviously, it doesn't work quite as smoothly as that, so the 500 people who get FP will actually wait a few minutes each, but the savings is not illusory or at the expense of standby riders.

What is true is that the savings are disproportionately the benefit of FP users at the expense of those who do not use FP. FP+, if it encourages broader and more even use of the system, will help to spread the benefits more evenly...likely to my detriment, as I had historically used FP for more than 3 attractions most days.

No, @ParentsOf4 was correct. Total attraction capacity is a constant; There is no way to cut everyone's wait time unless you either reduce demand (fewer guests getting in line or returning with an FP+) or increase capacity (as with Dumbo). FastPass does neither. In your example, without any form of FastPass the 500th person in line will board in 30 minutes, but with FP using half the capacity, that 500th person will now board in 60 minutes. Indeed, you say the exact same thing in your example above. Wait time is reduced to a few minutes (assuming no backups at FP return) for FP users, but it necessarily comes at the expense of the standby queue, where the line now moves slower because you are letting other guests - those with an FP - cut in front.

 

[crispy]

So I may have to dig a little back on twitter but one of the comments I read this morning was one lady stating that the opening of Diagon Alley was bigger than her wedding day.

If I were her husband, divorce papers would be waiting for that nut.

Maybe she had a small wedding.

 

[baymenxpac]

Untrue.

If 1,000 people can ride Peter Pan's flight in an hour, and there are, with no FP, 1,000 people in line, every person with wait 60 minutes (assuming steady-state line length). If Disney tells 500 of those people they don't need to wait, and can simply come back at the appointed time, the remaining 500 people will still each wait 60 minutes, but the 500 people who get FP will wait zero minutes. The total wait time of all guests is cut in half. Obviously, it doesn't work quite as smoothly as that, so the 500 people who get FP will actually wait a few minutes each, but the savings is not illusory or at the expense of standby riders.

What is true is that the savings are disproportionately the benefit of FP users at the expense of those who do not use FP. FP+, if it encourages broader and more even use of the system, will help to spread the benefits more evenly...likely to my detriment, as I had historically used FP for more than 3 attractions most days.

ummm...not the first person in line. or the second. or the third. every person will not wait 60 minutes.

@ParentsOf4 is right on this one.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Further proof that DA is the necessary fire under Disney's butt:
I'm listening to a MouseChat interview now with Jim Hill (I know he's not the most popular guy on these boards, but I love listening to his interviews). Per JH, the wand effect at WWoHP has got Disney planning to have a similar "Force" effect -- possibly tied to Magic Bands. Also:
The Cantina is a definite (of course).
Some stupid (did I say that out loud?) Dumbo-like spinner for the kiddies (because there weren't enough of those at WDW).
Jedi Training Academy moving into Sounds Dangerous (we knew that already, too), with a possible addition of a Yoda A-A.
Due to obligations to corporate events, cheerleader competitions, etc. (plus the recent acquisition of IJ film rights), the Indy show is staying through at least 2017.
Still listening so there may be more. Here's the link:
http://mousechat.net/index.php/2014/07/07/jim-hill-disney-world-universal-future-rides/

 

[Kman101]

And not to mention the people literally crying that it's open.

 

[Kman101]

Further proof that DA is the necessary fire under Disney's butt:
I'm listening to a MouseChat interview now with Jim Hill (I know he's not the most popular guy on these boards, but I love listening to his interviews). Per JH, the wand effect at WWoHP has got Disney planning to have a similar "Force" effect -- possibly tied to Magic Bands. Also:
The Cantina is a definite (of course).
Some stupid (did I say that out loud?) Dumbo-like spinner for the kiddies (because there weren't enough of those at WDW).
Jedi Training Academy moving into Sounds Dangerous (we knew that already, too), with a possible addition of a Yoda A-A.
Due to obligations to corporate events, cheerleader competitions, etc. (plus the recent acquisition of IJ film rights), the Indy show is staying through at least 2017.
Still listening so there may be more. Here's the link:
http://mousechat.net/index.php/2014/07/07/jim-hill-disney-world-universal-future-rides/

Gosh, wouldn't want them to build an actual ride. Of course they have a spinner planned. Sigh.

 

[Mr. Moderate]

So I may have to dig a little back on twitter but one of the comments I read this morning was one lady stating that the opening of Diagon Alley was bigger than her wedding day.

If I were her husband, divorce papers would be waiting for that nut.

That's why the word Fan is derived from the word, Fanatic. That kind of mentality scares me, but in reality it's no different from the idiots who go to extremes you see at sporting events doing stupid stuff to show their support for the team they're way too emotional involved with. It's my hope that the girl in that tweet is just young and acting stupid, like a lot of us were back then, but I do admit, she makes me uncomfortable. I get the excitement of this new, jaw dropping expansion and I look forward to seeing it myself, but no way would I be standing in line for 4 hours or so as the line stretches on forever it seems. I've seen the photo updates on face book and the pictures of fans dressed up in Potter robes and other gear, standing in long lines with no shade or relief from the heat, makes me seriously question their sanity.

 

[MichWolv]

No, @ParentsOf4 was correct. Total attraction capacity is a constant; There is no way to cut everyone's wait time unless you either reduce demand (fewer guests getting in line or returning with an FP+) or increase capacity (as with Dumbo). FastPass does neither. In your example, without any form of FastPass the 500th person in line will board in 30 minutes, but with FP using half the capacity, that 500th person will now board in 60 minutes. Indeed, you say the exact same thing in your example above. Wait time is reduced to a few minutes (assuming no backups at FP return) for FP users, but it necessarily comes at the expense of the standby queue, where the line now moves slower because you are letting other guests - those with an FP - cut in front.

No it does not. You can theoretically reduce wait time to zero by having no standby line and using 100% of capacity for FP with everybody coming back at the appointed time. No wait time with 100% capacity usage. The fact that Disney uses only 50% of the capacity for FP (if it is 50%) means that only half of the wait time is theoretically eliminated, with actual reduction something less than the theoretical maximum reduction.

 

[MichWolv]

ummm...not the first person in line. or the second. or the third. every person will not wait 60 minutes.

That's why I said we start assuming a steady-state line, such that person 1 has already waited his 60 minutes. Makes the calculations easier without compromising the principle.

 

[cheezbat]

Ya know, they wouldn't have this problem if Uni had Magic Bands. 10-11 hours? Insanity. I'd hate to be 5 hours in and decide I really have to, you know, go. If you're going to wait that long, might as well invest in a pair of Depends.

Oh my gosh you have no idea! I got there around 5am this morning and by 6 already had to go number 1...my bro had to go number 2...we weren't leaving the line for anything, but by 10am when we were about to ride Gringotts we were both dying...luckily we made it through the ride and then raced to the bathroom just in time! Five minutes more and I'm sure my bladder would've burst!

 

[CDavid]

Yeah, but they can't even "improve" upon the ride system until then. I personally gravitate toward ride systems (as I feel many people do), but any innovative idea for an attraction/experience requires a good deal of time spent in research and development before any ground can be broken.

Disney has a number of innovative attractions from Disney parks around the globe which could readily be cloned in Walt Disney World - Carsland, Ratatouille, and Mystic Manor are among them and would do wonders for the Florida parks. Then there are all the ("blue-sky") attraction concept proposals which never made it further than coffee-table books and artwork of what might have been. Point is, there is no shortage of ideas which could quickly break ground without prior development.

Further, the actual ride system employed is frequently less important than the presentation and scale of the complete attraction experience. Some of Disney's most enduring, inspiring, and well done attractions are very basic omnimovers or boat-rides (Spaceship Earth, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, etc.).

 

[doctornick]

Some stupid (did I say that out loud?) Dumbo-like spinner for the kiddies (because there weren't enough of those at WDW).

I'm not opposed to having a child oriented ride for Star Wars -- even a flat ride, though I'd prefer a dark ride -- but there is no reason to have another spinner at WDW. There's lots of other types of flat rides that can be offered that offer something different than a spinner.